South Lakes Wild Animal Park The latest rant from David Gill

If the facts are correct in Mr Gills statement, then I agree with him regarding the council saying he shouldn't be allowed to pole feed. One accident in whether it is 75,000 or even half that figure is no reason to ban it. Maybe put a suggestion or ruling that in high winds and other adverse weather conditions this is prohibited, but to simply ban this feeding method is bordering ridiculous.
Should accidents continue with this procedure, then consider the option to ban it, but for a single accident, I would suggest the best and most logical practice is surely to address the reason for the accident and apply a solution to that reason.
 
If the facts are correct in Mr Gills statement, then I agree with him regarding the council saying he shouldn't be allowed to pole feed. One accident in whether it is 75,000 or even half that figure is no reason to ban it. Maybe put a suggestion or ruling that in high winds and other adverse weather conditions this is prohibited, but to simply ban this feeding method is bordering ridiculous.
Should accidents continue with this procedure, then consider the option to ban it, but for a single accident, I would suggest the best and most logical practice is surely to address the reason for the accident and apply a solution to that reason.

And if the next time it happens the keeper breaks her spine, and is left paralysed for life? Or her neck, and dies? Good Health & Safety is about risk assessment and management. The existing arrangement is demonstrably hazardous and should not be allowed to continue until it is made safe.
 
I am not suggesting that there are no health and safety issues involved with this placing meat up poles for tigers to climb, wasn't it suggested on here a while back that it may also be harmful for the tigers concerned to have to climb these poles?, what puzzles me is why after 18 years of tigers climbing these poles has the council just recently taken it upon themselves to take action against it?
 
wasn't it suggested on here a while back that it may also be harmful for the tigers concerned to have to climb these poles?,

I don't know if any research has been undertaken on this. IMO its not a natural activity for most of these Big Cats to have to climb poles for their food, but it probably does provide them with good muscle exercise. On the downside could be any shock incurred by dropping repeatedly and heavily to the ground from some sort of height. If they climb down backwards at least most of the way that would be different. I don't know which they do.
 
I am not suggesting that there are no health and safety issues involved with this placing meat up poles for tigers to climb, wasn't it suggested on here a while back that it may also be harmful for the tigers concerned to have to climb these poles?, what puzzles me is why after 18 years of tigers climbing these poles has the council just recently taken it upon themselves to take action against it?

The way H&S inspections are being carried out has changed - it is being based on topic assessment one of which is working at height. The assesment methods have changed as well.

Work at height - Occupational health and safety
 
And if the next time it happens the keeper breaks her spine, and is left paralysed for life? Or her neck, and dies? Good Health & Safety is about risk assessment and management. The existing arrangement is demonstrably hazardous and should not be allowed to continue until it is made safe.

I would suggest the best and most logical practice is surely to address the reason for the accident and apply a solution to that reason.

the italics are my last sentence, therefore your post seems to agree with me?
 
I would suggest the best and most logical practice is surely to address the reason for the accident and apply a solution to that reason.

the italics are my last sentence, therefore your post seems to agree with me?

Yes, to a degree. But while the solution is being sought (and Mr Gill seems to think the solution is difficult) the practice should cease. That is the essential distinction.

I have seen the tiger pole-feeding. It is very, very impressive for the visitor. The exercise for the animals might well be beneficial BUT there may be skeleto-muscular implications which are less benign.
 
I have seen the tiger pole-feeding. It is very, very impressive for the visitor. The exercise for the animals might well be beneficial BUT there may be skeleto-muscular implications which are less benign.

I would agree regarding the Tigers,but surely both species of Leopard are up and down trees quite regularly (Maybe less so with the Snow leopard I admit) :confused:
 
Feeding a big cats using a pole does not need a keeper to go up a ladder,to put the meat on the pole!As Chester have being doing it with the Jaguars for a good few years now,by using a hollow pole and a platform inside the pole that can be winched up from the bottom,of the pole so that the cats can retrieve it from the top when they climb the pole!Have to admit this method cost alot more than a telegraph pole and a step ladder,but its perfectly safe for the staff to use,and the cats still get to climb the pole!
 
If the facts are correct in Mr Gills statement, then I agree with him regarding the council saying he shouldn't be allowed to pole feed. One accident in whether it is 75,000 or even half that figure is no reason to ban it. Maybe put a suggestion or ruling that in high winds and other adverse weather conditions this is prohibited, but to simply ban this feeding method is bordering ridiculous.
Should accidents continue with this procedure, then consider the option to ban it, but for a single accident, I would suggest the best and most logical practice is surely to address the reason for the accident and apply a solution to that reason.
of course it is extremely difficult to know what the true story is, because all there is available is David Gill's post on Facebook and the newspaper article (which doesn't make things any clearer because it is relying largely on the aforementioned Facebook post).

I think it is unlikely the council has said anything like "we are banning you feeding the cats on poles". Far more likely is that as a result of the keeper falling they investigated the matter and said the zoo needs to introduce safety measures or they can't use this feeding technique. (i.e. what you said in your last two sentences).
 
I would agree regarding the Tigers,but surely both species of Leopard are up and down trees quite regularly (Maybe less so with the Snow leopard I admit) :confused:

Leopards (and Jaguars) are tree climbers yes. Snow Leopard are normally found way above the treeline, so no. Tigers don't naturally climb trees. Lions rarely- though in some areas local populations do.
 
Barrow Council have reacted to the claims made by Mr.Gill
North West Evening Mail | News | Council hits back in Dalton zoo tiger feeding row

A COUNCIL has revealed it issued Dalton zoo with an order to change the way it feeds its tigers because it failed to make suitable risk assessments for staff.

Barrow Borough Council issued the statement yesterday after South Lakes Safari Zoo hit out at the authority on its Facebook page, claiming the council was stopping its staff from climbing ladders to place food at the top of poles.

Food has been left on the poles at the Dalton attraction in that way since 1996 and the zoo argues that
other methods are not practical.

The council revealed yesterday that it issued an improvement notice – under the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 – to the zoo on July 25 in relation to “big cat carnivore feeding”.

The council statement said: “This notice was served because the park had failed to make a suitable and sufficient assessment of the risks to the health and safety of its employees to prevent a person falling a distance liable to cause personal injury whilst undertaking the routine placement of food at height for big cat carnivores.”

The council said the notice required the zoo to comply by August 15, but an extension was granted to alter that date to September 12. The zoo did not appeal during the 21-day appeal period.

The statement added: “The council has a duty to ensure the health and safety of persons employed at the park and also visitors to the park. The improvement notice was served in compliance with those duties. The council will not be providing any further comment at this time.”

In its Facebook statement, the zoo claimed the council had over-reacted to an incident earlier this year when a member of staff was blown off a ladder while loading food and broke her collar bone.

The Facebook statement added: “One issue in 18 years; one issue in over 75,000 ladder climbs and the council has placed an order upon us that would stop this practice totally and end the cats’ exciting feeding time, your amazement at their energy and power, and force dramatic change to our unique way of stimulating our cats.”
 
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so basically: after the keeper fell and broke her collarbone the council issued the zoo a notice saying they had to improve the safety measures. The zoo ignored the notice.

Sounds like the typical working method at South Lakes.
 
I don't think climbing is the issue, it's the shock of landing.

For the smaller cats it's probably not too bad, but for lions and tiger I'm sure that will cause additional wear and tear to their joints.
If it causes appreciable damage, and whether that's damage is worse than them not getting exercise is something for smarter people to work out.
 
I don't think climbing is the issue, it's the shock of landing.

For the smaller cats it's probably not too bad, but for lions and tiger I'm sure that will cause additional wear and tear to their joints.
If it causes appreciable damage, and whether that's damage is worse than them not getting exercise is something for smarter people to work out.

That is what I have said previously - the shock for the largest cats of landing heavily from a height- if they don't climb all the way down backwards.

I don't know if any research has been done in this area.
 
That is what I have said previously - the shock for the largest cats of landing heavily from a height- if they don't climb all the way down backwards.

I don't know if any research has been done in this area.

Sadly, the justification seems to be that "it's a spectacle enjoyed by visitors".
 
Sadly, the justification seems to be that "it's a spectacle enjoyed by visitors".

I have always wondered about this pole-feeding method of feeding the very big cats generally, not just at South Lakes in particular either, as it wasn't the first place to do it.
 
tiger feeding pole 1.jpg

tiger feeding pole 2.jpg

I have always wondered about this pole-feeding method of feeding the very big cats generally, not just at South Lakes in particular either, as it wasn't the first place to do it.

There has been many zoos and collections that have benefited from Glasgow Zoo's application of numerous felid enrichment techniques, one being the tiger feeding pole. You will find such matters being addressed within the UFAW Environmental Enrichment for Captive Animals; Robert J. Young. Blackwell Publishing,2003. ISBN: 0-632-06407-2. pages 90 to 97. & ABWAK Guidelines for Environmental Enrichment. Enrichment of Felids. pages 109 to 131. & RATEL 1990: Food Presentation, Cats. & International Zoo Year Book 1997; Dispelling some common misconceptions about keeping of felids in captivity. Plus many other publications of the IZYB. However, there is no current research with regards to the impact of force and muscular-skeletal from a height in captivity of captive felids. Dr Andrew Kitchener: Principal Curator, Vertebrate Biology has completed many studies into carnivores and so far he is seen as the best person to speak to. To complete such studies you will require, the felids, the feeding pole, an area where you can fit a landing mat which contains measuring equipment and photographic and video methods. From there, a specific time period to measure and persons to correlate the data. Myself and Graham did most of the donkey work regarding these enrichment tools, Graham still delivers some awesome lectures regarding enrichment.
 
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Thankyou for the links. I would agree that the muscles the Big Cat uses in climbing the pole would be very much the same as the ones used in leaping onto the back of and pulling down a large prey animal. That part is all good.

Also interesting how they found cats often wouldn't immediately start feeding. Perhaps this mimicks behaviour in the wild also. Many times I've seen film footage of wild Lions/Tigers hunting and after a kill they are often rather out of breath and there is a natural interlude while they recover and before they actually start feeding.
 
THINK CAT - FALLING & BALANCE.jpg

There has been plenty of research completed on how cats fall and how cats balance, what has not been done is research regarding on the science (impact, physical and mechanical, force, muscular-skeletal etc) of cats falling from a feeding pole in a captive state. The attachment above is from the book called "Think Cat" written by the late and legendary zoo vet David Taylor and is one of the best books around that explains in a simple non-scientific role on the science of cats.

BBC News - Who, What, Why: How do cats survive falls from great heights?

"Who, What, Why: How do cats survive falls from great heights?
A cat in a tree
Comfy? Cats are evolutionarily adapted to live in trees - luxury living with humans is a recent development
Continue reading the main story
In today's Magazine

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Quiz of the week's news
10 things we didn't know last week
A cat in the US city of Boston survived a fall from a 19-storey window and only bruised her chest. How do cats survive falls from such great heights?

The cat's owner Brittney Kirk, a nurse, left the window open a crack on Wednesday morning to give Sugar some air. Sugar got out and either fell or leapt off the ledge and hit a patch of grass and mulch.

An animal rescue service found her and traced her back to Ms Kirk through a microchip embedded in her skin.

"She's a tough little kitty," Ms Kirk told the Boston Globe newspaper.

Cats' remarkable ability to survive falls from great heights is a simple and predictable matter of physics, evolutionary biology, and physiology, veterinarians and biologists say.

"This recent story isn't much of a surprise," says Jake Socha, a biomechanist at Virginia Tech university.

"We do know that animals exhibit this behaviour, and there have been lots of records of these cats surviving."

Continue reading the main story
The answer

Cats have relatively large surface areas in proportion to their weight, so fall at a slower rate over a great height than larger mammals
Their bodies have evolved to allow them to survive falls from trees, their natural homes
Given the time, they twist to land on their feet
Their legs are long, muscular and extend under the body rather than straight down, allowing them to absorb the shock
But many cats who fall from heights are nevertheless severely injured and some die
Lucky cat survives 19-storey fall
With scientists unwilling to toss cats off buildings for experimental observation, science has been unable systematically to study the rate at which they live after crashing to the ground.

In a 1987 study of 132 cats brought to a New York City emergency veterinary clinic after falls from high-rise buildings, 90% of treated cats survived and only 37% needed emergency treatment to keep them alive. One that fell 32 stories onto concrete suffered only a chipped tooth and a collapsed lung and was released after 48 hours.

From the moment they're in the air to the instant after they hit the ground, cats' bodies are built to survive high falls, scientists say.

They have a relatively large surface area in proportion to their weight, thus reducing the force at which they hit the pavement.

Cats reach terminal velocity, the speed at which the downward tug of gravity is matched by the upward push of wind resistance, at a slow speed compared to large animals like humans and horses.

For instance, an average-sized cat with its limbs extended achieves a terminal velocity of about 60mph (97km/h), while an average-sized man reaches a terminal velocity of about 120mph (193km/h), according to the 1987 study by veterinarians Wayne Whitney and Cheryl Mehlhaff.

Continue reading the main story

Start Quote

This cat was lucky. But many, if not most, would have severe lung damage, would have a broken leg or two or three or four, maybe have damage to the tail, and maybe more likely than any of that a broken jaw or dental damage”

Steve Dale
Cat behaviour specialist
Cats are essentially arboreal animals: when they're not living in homes or in urban alleys, they tend to live in trees.

Sooner or later, they're going to fall, biologists say. Cats, monkeys, reptiles and other creatures will jump for prey and miss, a tree limb will break, or the wind will knock them over, so evolution has rendered them supremely capable of surviving falls.

"Being able to survive falls is a critical thing for animals that live in trees, and cats are one of them," says Dr Socha. "The domestic cat still contains whatever suite of adaptations they have that have enable cats to be good up in trees."

Through natural selection, cats have developed a keen instinct for sensing which way is down, analogous to the mechanism humans use for balance, biologists say.

Then - if given enough time - they are able to twist their bodies like a gymnast, astronaut or skydiver and spin their tails in order to position their feet under their bodies and land on them.

Continue reading the main story
WHO, WHAT, WHY?

Question mark
A part of BBC News Magazine, Who, What, Why? aims to answer questions behind the headlines

"Everything that lives in trees has what we call an aerial righting reflex," says Robert Dudley, a biologist at the animal flight laboratory at the University of California - Berkeley.

Cats can also spread their legs out to create a sort of parachute effect, says Andrew Biewener, a professor of organismal and evolutionary biology at Harvard University, although it is unclear how much this slows the rate of descent.

"They splay out their legs, which is going to expand their surface area of the body, and that increases the drag resistance," he says.

When they do land, cats' muscular legs - made for climbing trees - act as shock absorbers.

A cat lying down, from Thinkstock
Cats' legs are springy and muscular, letting them absorb the shock of impact
"Cats have long, compliant legs," says Jim Usherwood of the structure and motion lab at the Royal Veterinary College. "They've got decent muscles. In that they're able to jump quite well, the same muscles divert energy into decelerating rather than breaking bones."

The springy legs increase the distance over which the force of the collision with the ground dissipates, says Dr Biewener.

"The impact forces are much higher in stiff collisions," he says. "If they can increase the collision time over a longer period, that reduces the impact force."

And a cat's legs are angled under the body rather than extended downward, like human or horse legs.

"You're not transmitting the forces really directly," says Dr Socha.

"If the cat were to land with its legs directly under him in a column and hold him stiff, those bones would all break. But they go off to the side and the joints then bend, and you're now taking that energy and putting it into the joints and you're getting less of a force at the bone itself."

However, house cats in urban or suburban areas tend to be overweight and in less than peak physical condition, warns Steve Dale, a cat behaviour consultant who is on the board of the Winn Feline Foundation, which supports cat health research.

That detracts from their ability to right themselves in midair, he says.

"This cat was lucky," he says. "But many, if not most, would have severe lung damage, would have a broken leg or two or three or four, maybe have damage to the tail, and maybe more likely than any of that a broken jaw or dental damage."

and also:

How do cats survive falls from great heights? | Science-Based Life

"Recently, a small cat living in Boston survived a 19-storey fall from an apartment building. It was surely a bit of luck, but cats are evolutionarily adapted to survive such falls. Cats’ remarkable ability to survive falls from great heights is a simple and predictable matter of physics, evolutionary biology, and physiology.

From a great height

There are numerous accounts of cats surviving falls from seemingly deadly heights. However, as it is fairly unethical to test this ability by experimentally throwing cats out of high windows and seeing what happens, it has been hard to study this phenomena. Even so, by looking at the numbers of vet visits for such events, we get an idea of how successful a cat’s biology is at bracing a serious fall. Via the BBC:

In a 1987 study of 132 cats brought to a New York City emergency veterinary clinic after falls from high-rise buildings, 90% of treated cats survived and only 37% needed emergency treatment to keep them alive. One that fell 32 stories onto concrete suffered only a chipped tooth and a collapsed lung and was released after 48 hours.
It is pretty apparent from stories and reports like these that cats know how to fall effectively, but how do they do it?

The science of falling cats

First, cats have a high body surface area in proportion to their weight, reducing the pressure to their bodies when they hit the ground (because pressure equals force divided by area).

Second, because of their surface area and their low weight they reach terminal velocity, or the speed at which the pull of gravity is matched by wind resistance, much quicker than larger animals like humans. This means that they fall at a slower speed and subsequently hit the ground with less force. Again via the BBC:

For instance, an average-sized cat with its limbs extended achieves a terminal velocity of about 60mph (97km/h), while an average-sized man reaches a terminal velocity of about 120mph (193km/h), according to the 1987 study by veterinarians Wayne Whitney and Cheryl Mehlhaff.
Though we see cats usually living in someone’s house, cats are traditionally arboreal animals (they live in trees). Because sooner of later they are bound to fall, and any tree-dwelling animal will eventually pounce for prey and miss, cats are evolutionarily adapted to survive falls. That is to say, it is evolutionarily beneficial to be able to survive a fall, and as such modern house cats retain this ancestral adaptation.

Third, again through natural selection, cats have what is called aerial righting reflex which allows them to, given enough time, sense that they are falling incorrectly and spin themselves around like a sky diver or astronaut so that their feet are facing the ground. Having your main shock absorbers hit the ground instead of your back is crucial for fall survival. Interestingly, every animal that lives in the trees has a similar reflex, suggesting the same evolutionary process. You can see a shot by shot view of the aerial righting reflex below.

Fourth, cats also spread out their legs when they fall (as seen in the first picture above), increasing their surface area and slowing their descent by increasing the air’s drag on their bodies. Just how much this action slows their descent is unclear.

Fifth, cats have long muscular legs, adapted for climbing trees, that act as great shock absorbers. The same large muscles that allow them to jump many times their own height allows them to divert energy into decelerating them once they hit the ground instead of breaking bones. Because much of what is destructive about a collision is how rapidly a body decelerates, having long, springy legs allows cats to decelerate more slowly, thus reducing the seriousness of the collision.

WARNING PHYSICS CONTENT: For an example, think of an egg falling either onto a sheet held above the ground or onto pavement. In both cases the egg will come to a stop, meaning that the change in momentum (from some quantity during the fall to zero) is the same for both cases. However, because this change in momentum is dependent on the force applied to the egg and how long the force is applied to the egg, extending the amount of time the force is applied thus reduces the force applied.



So, why does the egg break on the pavement and not on the sheet even though the change in momentum is the same? The sheet is flexible and allows the time of collision to be extended, therefore reducing the force imparted to the egg. The pavement has an almost instant time of collision, therefore increasing the force and breaking the egg. You can also see this happening with your own body. If you jump to the ground from any height, you bend your knees upon impact, extending the time of collision and lessening the impact force. Learn more here.

Cats reduce the force imparted to their legs by having strong and springy legs in the first place. If cats landed from with their legs completely straight and rigid however, all of their bones would most likely break. Cat’s legs also have joints that can bend off to the sides of their bodies when they fall, unlike humans, which further reduces the force to their bodies.

Even given all of this adaptation, many house cats are estimated to be overweight and under-exercised and this reduces their ability to right themselves in mid-air and increases the speed at which they hit the ground. In all of their natural glory however, cats are purrfectly adapted to survive high falls.

The lesson from all of this? Cats that survive these incredibly high falls are lucky. Though many cats would survive, most would have severe lung damage, would have a broken leg or two or three or four, maybe have damage to the tail, and maybe more likely than any of that a broken jaw or dental damage. So put screens on your windows if you have a cat. They could probably handle a tumble from a tree, but an apartment building was never selected for."

And if you really want to read maths and physics:

http://pentagono.uniandes.edu.co/~j...inicursoJK-Uniandes/robotic examples/kane.pdf
 
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