The morality of conservation

[nanoboy]

Here is an informative article that quotes some philosophers' stances on where animals are in relation to humans.

"Aristotle claimed that “plants are created for the sake of animals, and the animals for the sake of men”.

Marx considered the “great civilising influence of capital” lay in its rejection of the “deification of nature”, happily allowing “nature (to become) simply an object for mankind, purely a matter for utility".

Thomas Aquinas thought that, regardless of man’s treatment of the individuals of any species, God would ensure that the species as a whole would not be destroyed.

Plato’s Scala Naturae [have] humans alone in perfection on the top rung of the ladder of life.

It is in Descartes’ conception that nature is nothing but matter, and that our thinking alone elevates us beyond that matter.

It is in Moses’ framework that restricts moral concerns only to dealings amongst humans and their property."

The article didn't mention one of my favourite modern maxims: animals and plants don't vote.

Threatened species: we're failing on morality and policy

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Here is an informative article that quotes some philosophers' stances on where animals are in relation to humans.

And my opinions.

"Aristotle claimed that “plants are created for the sake of animals, and the animals for the sake of men”.

Simply incorrect, plants and animals were created for the sake of the Earth. Both existed much longer than Humans and will probably last much longer than us.

Marx considered the “great civilising influence of capital” lay in its rejection of the “deification of nature”, happily allowing “nature (to become) simply an object for mankind, purely a matter for utility".

No living creature, of any species, is an object of mankind, no matter of utility.

Thomas Aquinas thought that, regardless of man’s treatment of the individuals of any species, God would ensure that the species as a whole would not be destroyed.

Not true, we've seen thousands of species that have gone Extinct at the bloody hands of man.

Plato’s Scala Naturae [have] humans alone in perfection on the top rung of the ladder of life.

Nope, not true. Place a Tiger and a Human in a forested area with all necessary needs to survive and the Tiger will live a full live and last much longer than most Humans.

It is in Descartes’ conception that nature is nothing but matter, and that our thinking alone elevates us beyond that matter.

We are all made of matter. Humans do not have the most advance brain, just the most "advanced" thinking.

It is in Moses’ framework that restricts moral concerns only to dealings amongst humans and their property."

Animals are not our property but that doesn't restrict our moral concerns and responsibilities to those who we hunt.

 

[nrg800]

Cultural relativism, yo!

 

[Chlidonias]

@ThylacineAlive, do you actually know who any of those people are (Aristotle etc)?

 

[ThylacineAlive]

@ThylacineAlive, do you actually know who any of those people are (Aristotle etc)?

Aristotle was a Ancient Greek philosopher and scientist- I pay attention in school. Some of the others I don't recognize. My reply wasn't to say these guys weren't great or that they were bad people (if that's how you interpreted my reply as) but to say how those things said by them in this instance were wrong. I do understand that that was generally the believe of the era.

 

[nanoboy]

Aristotle was a Ancient Greek philosopher and scientist- I pay attention in school. Some of the others I don't recognize. My reply wasn't to say these guys weren't great or that they were bad people (if that's how you interpreted my reply as) but to say how those things said by them in this instance were wrong. I do understand that that was generally the believe of the era.

I think that for many people, in many parts of the world, the moral zeitgeist re: animals, is the same as it was in Aristotle's time. To be fair, the same can be said for women's rights and xenophobia/racism.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I think that for many people, in many parts of the world, the moral zeitgeist re: animals, is the same as it was in Aristotle's time. To be fair, the same can be said for women's rights and xenophobia/racism.

While this is true in many places this site proves that this is not the more accepted way of thinking. I consider my rabbit ro be at the same social status in my family as my brother and sister (not many others here do).

 

[Monty]

Thomas Aquinas thought that, regardless of man’s treatment of the individuals of any species, God would ensure that the species as a whole would not be destroyed.

Not true, we've seen thousands of species that have gone Extinct at the bloody hands of man.

My view is that quote has more to do with the existence of god, and shows how peoples beliefs have damaged conservation. If Thomas Aquinas could have been shown the effect of man and how many species had become extinct, would he still have believed in god.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Thomas Aquinas thought that, regardless of man’s treatment of the individuals of any species, God would ensure that the species as a whole would not be destroyed.

My view is that quote has more to do with the existence of god, and shows how peoples beliefs have damaged conservation. If Thomas Aquinas could have been shown the effect of man and how many species had become extinct, would he still have believed in god.

I believe in God and think that animals long gone Extinct still exist in Heaven but I don't think that the many extinctions prove that we must do something as Heaven is getting full... (obviously not true but you get my point)

 

[nanoboy]

Thomas Aquinas thought that, regardless of man’s treatment of the individuals of any species, God would ensure that the species as a whole would not be destroyed.

My view is that quote has more to do with the existence of god, and shows how peoples beliefs have damaged conservation. If Thomas Aquinas could have been shown the effect of man and how many species had become extinct, would he still have believed in god.

He probably would have changed his tune to:

- they are in a better place
- it is the will of god
- man must have dominion over animals, so it's no big deal

 

[Ellis Bell]

I believe in God and think that animals long gone Extinct still exist in Heaven but I don't think that the many extinctions prove that we must do something as Heaven is getting full... (obviously not true but you get my point)

Don't get your point, if heaven was getting full then number of extinctions totally irrelevant, massively increasing numbers of people more of a problem.
Do things take up space in heaven relative to their earthly size or does an ant occupy the same space as a blue whale?

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Don't get your point, if heaven was getting full then number of extinctions totally irrelevant, massively increasing numbers of people more of a problem.
Do things take up space in heaven relative to their earthly size or does an ant occupy the same space as a blue whale?

My point was more and more animals are going Extinct so Heaven is getting too full of Extinct species.