The Return of Dolphinaria?

[Devi]

Hope it never happens. After successfully seeing the end of all Dolphinarium's in the UK - the last ones I think were in Morecambe (Marineland) & Yorkshire (Flamingoland). I think that any creature that uses sonar/echo location, would go stir crazy in any form of boxed enclosure.

Why would they?

 

[Wigwam]

Why? Having their sonic signals/echo location bounced back at them.
Like birds in cages, I see marine mammals in boxes cruel.
Neither can live normally in such confines. You could argue that about most creatures in zoos - but I think these 2 are definite/hardened examples. Sometimes, we have to think about what's right, fair, & proper for these creatures. That must always over-ride our desire to see them up close in zoos. Just my opinion.

 

[Devi]

Why? Having their sonic signals/echo location bounced back at them.
Like birds in cages, I see marine mammals in boxes cruel.
Neither can live normally in such confines. You could argue that about most creatures in zoos - but I think these 2 are definite/hardened examples. Sometimes, we have to think about what's right, fair, & proper for these creatures. That must always over-ride our desire to see them up close in zoos. Just my opinion.

You realise sonar is supposed to bounce back right? That's how it works.

 

[Wigwam]

Of course I realise. But having signals bounced back off a concrete cell, can cause harm, & distress. Since whales and dolphins use sonar to communicate with one another, they are essentially rendered deaf and dumb when placed in a concrete water tank. The sonar bounces off the cement tanks, confusing and irritating the animals. Sonar is dolphins' most effective tool for learning about the world around them. Thwarting their ability to use this sonar is tantamount to blinding the animal. In the wild, dolphins use their echolocation to chase live prey. In captivity, they are fed dead fish because they cannot use their powers of echolocation to chase live fish.

 

[gentle lemur]

In captivity, they are fed dead fish because they cannot use their powers of echolocation to chase live fish.

I think it would be illegal to feed live fishes to cetaceans in the UK, just as it is illegal to feed other carnivores with live vertebrate prey.

Alan

 

[Devi]

Of course I realise. But having signals bounced back off a concrete cell, can cause harm, & distress. Since whales and dolphins use sonar to communicate with one another, they are essentially rendered deaf and dumb when placed in a concrete water tank. The sonar bounces off the cement tanks, confusing and irritating the animals. Sonar is dolphins' most effective tool for learning about the world around them. Thwarting their ability to use this sonar is tantamount to blinding the animal. In the wild, dolphins use their echolocation to chase live prey. In captivity, they are fed dead fish because they cannot use their powers of echolocation to chase live fish.

They are fed dead fish because it's inhumane to feed live ones. Dolphins use sonar to see in murky water, in clear water, like in tanks, they use eyes. They can however use sonar if they want to, there are some places that will blindfold the animals and get them to retrieve a hoop or something from the bottom of the pool, which they do perfectly well.
Communication is achieved by the use of audible sounds and the communication between dolphins in captivity has been heavily studied, they are neither deaf nor dumb and happily chatter to each other all day long.

 

[Hyak2]

I am surprised half the people reading this thread do not seem to realise that sonar is used ' as and when' by the animal and is not permenantly active ( for want of a better expression). It is half understood biology like this which allows the anti movement to get their foot in the door and propagate half truths, thereby creating an innacurate public perception of dolphins and dolphinaria in general. Dolphins are not magical super intelligent beings and although they are clever , it has been proved in recent years that dolphins can and are kept as successfully as any other zoo animals, are reproducing well when kept in the correct captive environment, and stand a good chance of outliving their wild brethren - just like the majority of other 'zoo' species.

 

[Chlidonias]

I am surprised half the people reading this thread do not seem to realise that sonar is used ' as and when' by the animal and is not permenantly active ( for want of a better expression).

how do you know what half the people reading this thread are thinking? Especially as only two people apart from yourself have even mentioned sonar? Are you using some sort of mind-reading sonar?

I read Wigwam's post #24 and was about to reply with something to the effect of "if dolphins are supposed to be so smart then why assume they are so idiotic that they can't control their own use of sonar", but then I read what you said above and it made my brain hurt.

 

[garyjp]

No I'm not voting on the poll either I'm split over this I'm sure I saw dolphins in Brighton many years ago but many years ago we were ignorant of these things.

I think we would need a new facility purpose built , but it would only house injured or sick animals until they are better those that cant return to the world can be put on display - its the only way i could wear it

 

[lamna]

I think having rehab capabilities would be very valuable, but I don't anyone being able to do that without exhibiting cetaceans too, to provide experience and to fund the whole thing.

 

[Devi]

I think having rehab capabilities would be very valuable, but I don't anyone being able to do that without exhibiting cetaceans too, to provide experience and to fund the whole thing.

Could open with a few unreleasables from haardjewik?

 

[cliffxdavis]

I would like to see a proper breeding program for river dolphins before they all become extinct in their home locations, especially the Asian species.

 

[DDcorvus]

But should that programme be ex-situ?

 

[cliffxdavis]

But should that programme be ex-situ?

In my opinion yes, so that there is stock to return when the countries that could be doing this have the will and resources to do it. Natural environment is being lost so fast to pollution and agriculture that to expect high tech installations in low tech countries is unrealistic.

Setting up expensive water treatment plants to house animals in countries with a shortage of good drinking water seems an unrealistic expectation.

I can not see it happening as, as far as I know, you can not train these species to jump though hoops.

 

[DDcorvus]

I must disagree, both India and China are perfectly able to build such facilities and to finance them.

 

[cliffxdavis]

I must disagree, both India and China are perfectly able to build such facilities and to finance them.

Possibly but will they? Also, unless my TV is lying to me, many Indians and Chinese are wealthy but many seem to be lacking everything we take for granted - food, shelter, drinking water etc.