"There is no conservation value in keeping exotics in Australian zoos" - prove me wrong.

[Dassie rat]

Sorry, TLD and Andrew Swales. This thread is about whether there is any conservation value in keeping exotics in Australian zoos. Surely, there would be more conservation value in more zoos keeping a few endangered native species, rather than lots of animals with no conservation concern.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Please read MRJ's statement '"There is no conservation in keeping exotics in Australian zoos" - prove me wrong'. This is about the conservation value of keeping exotics - not about whether some exotic species are popular and attract visitors.

Sorry, TLD. This thread is about whether there is any conservation value in keeping exotics in Australian zoos.

And yet it was you who raised the question of why collections in Australia may keep meerkats but not numbats - you cannot exactly turn around and complain people are straying offtopic when they are replying to a strand of discussion you introduced

 

[Andrew Swales]

Please read MRJ's statement '"There is no conservation in keeping exotics in Australian zoos" - prove me wrong'. This is about the conservation value of keeping exotics - not about whether some exotic species are popular and attract visitors.

Again, it was you who introduced the Meerkats...

 

[FBBird]

Please read MRJ's statement '"There is no conservation in keeping exotics in Australian zoos" - prove me wrong'. This is about the conservation value of keeping exotics - not about whether some exotic species are popular and attract visitors.

Right. Here we go then....
*any zoo animal can be used to make a point re conservation, Meerkats can be an intro to education about deserts.
*today’s common animal is tomorrow’s endangered one
*attractive ‘Least Concern’ species bring in the visitors who pay to see them, generating revenue for conservation
*husbandry techniques developed on common species can then be applied to their rarer relatives. The restoration work done in recent decades on the Californian Condor owes much to work done earlier with its Andean cousin. Incidentally, the Andean Condor is now not as secure in the wild as it used to be.....

 

[littleRedPanda]

Please read MRJ's statement '"There is no conservation in keeping exotics in Australian zoos" - prove me wrong'. This is about the conservation value of keeping exotics - not about whether some exotic species are popular and attract visitors.

My point is that they are bringing money into zoos. I believe that zoos play a big part in conservation (maybe naively) and the likes of meerkats help bring the money in to fund their projects.

 

[Dassie rat]

This remote debate is getting somewhat cyclical and I hope that someone nearer to the action can give clarification as to whether zoos replacing their Meerkats with Numbats is anything other than a theoretical fantasy.

This thread is about Australian zoos.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

This remote debate is getting somewhat cyclical and I hope that someone nearer to the action can give clarification as to whether zoos replacing their Meerkats with Numbats is anything other than a theoretical fantasy.

I imagine @MRJ can shed significantly more light on the matter than I can, but I suspect it will come down to a few factors, including:

1) Numbats have a specialist diet which is more restricted than, say, an anteater - and being a smaller animal with a higher metabolism they need proportionally more regular feeding.
2) The vast majority of animals bred at Perth and other breeding centres are for reintroduction, with population densities not high enough to "spare" stock elsewhere.
3) Although the species breeds in captivity I am not sure it breeds more regularly than is required to keep existing numbers in captivity replacement level.

I imagine there are loads of Aussie zoos which would love to keep the species - but that it's not a case of choosing not to do so.

 

[Dassie rat]

Thanks, TLJ

I used a numbat of an example that is kept in few Australian zoos, while the meerkat is kept in many zoos.

There are other Australian animals that could be kept in more Australian zoos - the David Fleay Wildlife Park is a good example of a zoo that is preserving obscure Australian species.

 

[Andrew Swales]

This thread is about Australian zoos.

Yes, that's what it says...

 

[Andrew Swales]

Thanks, TLJ

I used a numbat of an example that is kept in few Australian zoos, while the meerkat is kept in many zoos.

There are other Australian animals that could be kept in more Australian zoos - the David Fleay Wildlife Park is a good example of a zoo that is preserving obscure Australian species.

There is probably a higher percentage of zoos in Australia specialising in or heavily featuring native animals already, than in most other countries.

 

[FBBird]

There is probably a higher percentage of zoos in Australia specialising in or heavily featuring native animals already, than in most other countries.

I can think of a rather good U.K. zoo that has a surprising number of Australian species......

 

[TeaLovingDave]

There is probably a higher percentage of zoos in Australia specialising in or heavily featuring native animals already, than in most other countries.

Indeed - outside of specialist collections such as Alpenzoo, British Wildlife Centre, Wildwood and so forth, there are probably very few European collections which have as extensive a native species collection as 95% of Australian collections do.

 

[FBBird]

Indeed - outside of specialist collections such as Alpenzoo, British Wildlife Centre, Wildwood and so forth, there are probably very few European collections which have as extensive a native species collection as 95% of Australian collections do.

Fond memories of Norfolk Wildlife Park....

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Right. Here we go then....
*any zoo animal can be used to make a point re conservation, Meerkats can be an intro to education about deserts.
*today’s common animal is tomorrow’s endangered one
*attractive ‘Least Concern’ species bring in the visitors who pay to see them, generating revenue for conservation
*husbandry techniques developed on common species can then be applied to their rarer relatives. The restoration work done in recent decades on the Californian Condor owes much to work done earlier with its Andean cousin. Incidentally, the Andean Condor is now not as secure in the wild as it used to be.....

I'm not going to get into the meerkat in Australian zoos debate (suffice to say I don't like when this species is kept at so many zoos but understand they have "crowd appeal").

But with regards to these being an introduction to desert ecosystems it would strike me that within the context of Australia they are a pretty poor introduction considering that approximately 70% of the Australian continent is composed of arid / semi-arid ecosystems and that these are (or perhaps "were" would be a better term) inhabited by endemic and charismatic native small mammals like the bilby.

I can understand meerkats being a good introductory species in a zoo in the Northern Hemisphere for visitors to the concept of desert life / ecosystems given that there are no arid deserts there ( of course this is likely to change due to rising levels of desertification and aridity with climate change).

However, in Australia I do think they are probably quite superfluous given just how many fascinating and charismatic little native marsupials endangered or otherwise (not to mention reptiles and birds) that could perform that role of being an ambassador of desert ecosystems.

 

[MRJ]

I'm not going to argue in favour of exotic species in Australian zoos but neither am I going to rule out the possibility that zoos on the Australian continent could in theory help with ex-situ efforts for exotic species (Australia is a megadiverse country / continent but it is not as crippled socio-economically and in terms of infrastructure as other megadiverse countries regions).

Rather what I would say (similar to my views / stance on zoos in South America / Latin America) is that the primary focus and number one priority of zoos in Australia should always be towards ex-situ and supporting in-situ programes with native species and biodiversity over exotic species.

Also, just a question, but what about species native to islands that are part of the Australasian Pacific region (geographically and geopolitically) but not native to the Australian mainland continent ?

Personally I do strongly believe that Australian zoos should be heavily involved / invested in the ex-situ / in-situ conservation of the species that I refer to above.

Yes always "in theory" and there can never be hard and fast rules in conservation. But the practicalities would suggest that opportunities would be limited.

If talking about the islands (not PNG, which of course has quite a few mammals) we are basically talking about birds and reptiles as far as "zoo" animals go. It is for all practical purposes impossible to import birds into Australia, but Australian zoos have worked with Fijian iguanas. However it is important for political, social and economic (it is cheaper) reasons to do this work in range countries. And yes Australian zoos are taking up that challenge. For instance Melbourne Zoo works very closely with Port Moresby Nature Park. We (Moonlit Sanctuary) support an organization breeding and reintroducing endangered Indonesian birds based in Bali.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Yes always "in theory" and there can never be hard and fast rules in conservation. But the practicalities would suggest that opportunities would be limited.

If talking about the islands (not PNG, which of course has quite a few mammals) we are basically talking about birds and reptiles as far as "zoo" animals go. It is for all practical purposes impossible to import birds into Australia, but Australian zoos have worked with Fijian iguanas. However it is important for political, social and economic (it is cheaper) reasons to do this work in range countries. And yes Australian zoos are taking up that challenge. For instance Melbourne Zoo works very closely with Port Moresby Nature Park. We (Moonlit Sanctuary) support an organization breeding and reintroducing endangered Indonesian birds based in Bali.

Yes, I totally agree with you that it would be of greater benefit to do that kind of work with captive breeding and reintroduction (in addition to all of the other important aspects of conservation intervention) in an in-situ capacity within the range country when it comes to many of these Pacific island nations like the Solomons, Vanuatu, Fiji etc.

Even so (and again I'm not very familiar with how things work Down Under) there must have been cases in the past or perhaps even currently / ongoing where it has proved beneficial to establish an ex-situ captive population of a threatened species from these islands in Australian zoos ?

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Also one last point on the utility of meerkats for environmental education / as an introduction to desert life / ecosystems in Australian zoos.

I don't know for sure but it strikes me that the population of Australia (like that of Brazil in some ways) may have very little knowledge of the biodiversity that is found in the desert interior of the country which seems to be relatively sparsely populated.

Would it therefore not make greater educational sense if the visitors introduction to desert life / ecosystems was to native biodiversity and threatened species such as the bilby for example rather than an African species?

 

[MRJ]

This is such an interesting and well-argued take that I want to engage you on it simply for the sake of discourse, but not being that knowledgeable about Australia's specific biosecurity restrictions I'll only make two general points and acknowledge that both may be more complicated than I'm positing:

(Also, for what it's worth: my second point may be moot based on your interpretation of "conservation program" potentially not including the simple breeding of endangered species - but not being privy to the hippo conversation that sparked this I included it anyway. Feel free to disregard if it doesn't quite fit what you are talking about.)

1. As far as running conservation programs for exotic species goes, Australia (as well as New Zealand) may be well-positioned to help species within the Australasia-Pacific region outside of their respective countries, as @Onychorhynchus coronatus brought up. Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, Fiji, and other Pacific island countries have species of conservation concern and may lack the infrastructural capacities of the two regional powers. Depending on how lax biosecurity laws are for Pacific island endemics, that may be a set of species where Australia could play a major role in a proper conservation program.

2. Even though admittedly it is difficult and expensive for Australian zoos to participate in many international programs for exotic species - and the overall advantages may be small - I think it's worth keeping in mind the idea of seeing captive populations as global, even if they are managed regionally. Australia might make up only a small fraction of the available captive space for species like Francois' Langur, Javan Gibbon, African Painted Dog, and Sumatran Tiger - but these programs nevertheless benefit from the additional space, and one day the survival of highly threatened species like these could be decided on the margins. I'm not personally much of a believer in the idea that most endangered zoo populations will one day replenish the wild, but I also think it's worth it for zoos to maintain their support for the ones they have now so we don't one day end up kicking ourselves for thinking it didn't matter.

You are correct my interpretation of conservation does not include simply keeping and breeding. Nor is it acceptable to regional associations including AZA, EAZA, and ZAA any more, either. A classic example is the pygmy hippo, It is classified as Endangered in the wild but I believe there are over 3,000 animals in zoos round the world. How are those animals in zoos aiding the species in the wild? More specifically for this discussion, how does adding 10 or 20 animals in Australian zoos to that 3000 further their conservation?

1. Yes as stated above Australian zoos definitely have a role in our region. Whether that includes ex-situ programs is the question.

2. One of the lessons we learnt with the Tasmanian devil and orange-bellied parrot programs is that it is better to have a smaller number of facilities with a larger number of animals each. They develop expertise, economies of scale, and reduce the need for transfers. Note for security of the population not one or two, at least three. There are limited funds and resources in conservation and we have to make those dollars go further. There are of course surplus animals in any of these programs and these are often placed in other zoos, primarily for display. These zoos are seen as "doing their bit" and regarded as part of the program. I think Australian zoos could definitely have roles in taking surpluses from other regions without necessarily being part of the core programs. Overall I am in favour of keeping threatened species rather than common species where such a choice is available.

 

[MRJ]

If there is no conservation value in keeping exotic species in Australian zoos, then Australian zoos need to stop convincing the public thats the reason they keep exotic species.

Remember I don't talk for Australian zoos, only for myself and my zoo. In any event I was discussing a post by a zoochatter, not a zoo. I will say the major Australian zoos have extensive conservation programs, and also support programs in range countries.

 

[Simon Hampel]

Also one last point on the utility of meerkats for environmental education / as an introduction to desert life / ecosystems in Australian zoos.

I don't know for sure but it strikes me that the population of Australia (like that of Brazil in some ways) may have very little knowledge of the biodiversity that is found in the desert interior of the country which seems to be relatively sparsely populated.

Would it therefore not make greater educational sense if the visitors introduction to desert life / ecosystems was to native biodiversity and threatened species such as the bilby for example rather than an African species?

Yes, I don't think Meerkats have any real educational value in Australia - unless specifically in the context of the African savannah.

For example, Monarto Zoo's collection of Meerkats makes sense from an educational perspective given the other animals they keep and the environment they have at the zoo - a rough approximation of the savannah.

It makes far less sense to me in many other zoos for anything more than a crowd-pleaser.