The sighting referred to above was in 1982 not in resent years!
Thylacines are still extinct
- Thread starter DavidBrown
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Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I think the most compelling hints that the species may have survived after the death of "Benjamin" at the Hobart zoo come from the expeditions undertaken in the late 1930's up until the 50's.
Fleming and Fleay and Guiller all reported signs of the animal from pugmarks and hearing strange calls and such during these expeditions.
I personally think there still would have been a few individuals surviving in remote areas during those decades and possibly beyond and into the 60's.
After that the radio silence is telling up until the early 80's.
I wouldn't rule out that if credible (and it is the last of the credible accounts IMO) Naarding's sighting may well have been the last thylacine.
Fleming and Fleay and Guiller all reported signs of the animal from pugmarks and hearing strange calls and such during these expeditions.
I personally think there still would have been a few individuals surviving in remote areas during those decades and possibly beyond and into the 60's.
After that the radio silence is telling up until the early 80's.
I wouldn't rule out that if credible (and it is the last of the credible accounts IMO) Naarding's sighting may well have been the last thylacine.
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I had spoken to David Fleay back in 1973 about them and what he said in regards to them would have been very credible. I am on the fence in regards to whether they are still around but I feel some overseas members may not know how much land area and how remote some parts still are all with a very small population of humans!
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Its a long story which I dont want to share here!. I still may have some old black and white pics taken then but the place was running alive with Victoria crown pigeons
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Its a long story which I dont want to share here!. I still may have some old black and white pics taken then but the place was running alive with Victoria crown pigeons
No worries I understand.
But it must have been fascinating to speak with him and didn't he actually see the last thylacine at the Hobart zoo and was bitten by it ?
Yes he was very nice to talk to.I believe he holds a number of First breedings for our native wildlife!. Yes he was bitten by it and was quite proud of the fact as he said to me that he is (at that time) the only man alive that can say he was bitten by a Tassie Tiger. It was while setting up the Camera and turning his back to it.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yes he was very nice to talk to.I believe he holds a number of First breedings for our native wildlife!. Yes he was bitten by it and was quite proud of the fact as he said to me that he is (at that time) the only man alive that can say he was bitten by a Tassie Tiger. It was while setting up the Camera and turning his back to it.
That's incredible !
I myself would have loved to have had a conversation with him !
He was a true gentleman. He had one of his staff show myself a close up of the Platypus he had at the time!
I believe that Wiki may have some info about what species he bred for the first captive breedings!
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
He was a true gentleman. He had one of his staff show myself a close up of the Platypus he had at the time!
I believe that Wiki may have some info about what species he bred for the first captive breedings!
He certainly sounds it and what an incredible life he led too.
I only know that he had been successful with some very challenging species and was up for the challenge of breeding the thylacine.
What a shame he never caught any during his expeditions as the species may have been around for significantly longer.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
He was a true gentleman. He had one of his staff show myself a close up of the Platypus he had at the time!
I believe that Wiki may have some info about what species he bred for the first captive breedings!
Apparently he succeeded in first time breedings of species like :
Tawny frogmouth
Koala
Platypus
Emu
Brush turkey
He was definitely a man ahead of his time and if he had caught a pair / pairs of thylacine he could well have bred these too.
A general problem with eyewitness accounts is that, despite common belief, our eyes are not the same as cameras. What we actually see and what we, as individuals, perceive, are two very different things. Anyone working as a LEO / for law enforcement agencies, as a practical MD / DVM, psychologist, mentalist, magician etc. can confirm that. I can't tell how many times people have called me to pick up what they swore was 100% a huge cobra / viper / taipan etc. The water snakes, slowworms and rubber bands I encountered on the monster snake hunt begged to differ...
I remember an experiment done with unexpecting tourists at Loch Ness. A camera team prepared a wooden stick to quickly pop up on the surface of the lake in a certain distance from the shore and disappear just as quickly again, so that one could only see a blurry glimpse of it. The moderator mingled among the tourists and then suddenly and loudly pointed out the stick, yelling "Is that Nessie?" When later asked to sketch what they had seen, many tourists had drawn plesiosaur / dinosaur heads, fins, spikes etc. Similar experiments were done in regard to Bigfoot.
People tend to see what they want to see. Which is also true for thylacines, may it be now or in 1982.
Don't get me wrong - there are many examples of the "Lazarus effect" in regard to species thought extinct. Yet after so many years of intensive search by so many dedicated people, the lack of solid evidence for the current existence of thylacines rather speaks for their extinction.
I remember an experiment done with unexpecting tourists at Loch Ness. A camera team prepared a wooden stick to quickly pop up on the surface of the lake in a certain distance from the shore and disappear just as quickly again, so that one could only see a blurry glimpse of it. The moderator mingled among the tourists and then suddenly and loudly pointed out the stick, yelling "Is that Nessie?" When later asked to sketch what they had seen, many tourists had drawn plesiosaur / dinosaur heads, fins, spikes etc. Similar experiments were done in regard to Bigfoot.
People tend to see what they want to see. Which is also true for thylacines, may it be now or in 1982.
Doesn't automatically mean that they are all suitable habitats for thylacines, does it?
Don't get me wrong - there are many examples of the "Lazarus effect" in regard to species thought extinct. Yet after so many years of intensive search by so many dedicated people, the lack of solid evidence for the current existence of thylacines rather speaks for their extinction.
Well No, They ranged Australia wide in resent history also up into PNG were sometimes there are reports of them. As long as there are prey items theres no reason why they can not survive there. Its easy for some living on the other side of the world to just say this or that without ever setting a foot on the ground but that your view so I am good with thatA general problem with eyewitness accounts is that, despite common belief, our eyes are not the same as cameras. What we actually see and what we, as individuals, perceive, are two very different things. Anyone working as a LEO / for law enforcement agencies, as a practical MD / DVM, psychologist, mentalist, magician etc. can confirm that. I can't tell how many times people have called me to pick up what they swore was 100% a huge cobra / viper / taipan etc. The water snakes, slowworms and rubber bands I encountered on the monster snake hunt begged to differ...
I remember an experiment done with unexpecting tourists at Loch Ness. A camera team prepared a wooden stick to quickly pop up on the surface of the lake in a certain distance from the shore and disappear just as quickly again, so that one could only see a blurry glimpse of it. The moderator mingled among the tourists and then suddenly and loudly pointed out the stick, yelling "Is that Nessie?" When later asked to sketch what they had seen, many tourists had drawn plesiosaur / dinosaur heads, fins, spikes etc. Similar experiments were done in regard to Bigfoot.
People tend to see what they want to see. Which is also true for thylacines, may it be now or in 1982.
Doesn't automatically mean that they are all suitable habitats for thylacines, does it?
Don't get me wrong - there are many examples of the "Lazarus effect" in regard to species thought extinct. Yet after so many years of intensive search by so many dedicated people, the lack of solid evidence for the current existence of thylacines rather speaks for their extinction.
London zoo bred Brush Turkeys and Emus in the middle of the 19th century.
@Zorro : you managed to write without the excessive use of exclamation marks? Miracles do happen....^^
What makes you think that I haven't been to Australia? Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be all that overhasty in dismissing others out of sheer nationalistic arrogance. And a rather poor way of arguing, dare I say.
The large historical range does not necessarily mean that thylacines thrived in all habitats. Prey is not the sole factor affecting the survival of a species. And thanks for ignoring the rest of my argumentation...
What makes you think that I haven't been to Australia? Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be all that overhasty in dismissing others out of sheer nationalistic arrogance. And a rather poor way of arguing, dare I say.
The large historical range does not necessarily mean that thylacines thrived in all habitats. Prey is not the sole factor affecting the survival of a species. And thanks for ignoring the rest of my argumentation...
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware that they had a range into PNG but I knew they once occupied the Australian mainland.
There are some incredible artifacts that have been found on the mainland that point to the thylacine.
There are images of the thylacine in aboriginal peoples rock / cave art from thousands of years ago.
I also remember reading that the mumified body of a thylacine preserved by the microclimatic conditions of a cave had been discovered.
In the pictures I saw of it this specimen looked remarkably well preserved despite being thousands and thousands of years old.
I don't think any of the 'sign' either seen or collected on any of those expeditions were ever proved beyond doubt to be from Thylacines. It may have all been assumption/wishful thinking e.g I believe scats collected by David Fleay and held in a museum vault for many years were much more recently tested using modern techniques- the verdict- 'not those of a Thylacine.' While casts taken on another expedition appear to be those of Wombats.
If Naarding's sighting was genuine however, I don't see why the species could have hung on until then, but not survived until the present time. The critical mass hypothesis means a diminishing species either becomes extinct, or eventually recovers its former population number.
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Yes he was very nice to talk to.I believe he holds a number of First breedings for our native wildlife!. Yes he was bitten by it and was quite proud of the fact as he said to me that he is (at that time) the only man alive that can say he was bitten by a Tassie Tiger. It was while setting up the Camera and turning his back to it.
You don't happen to remember if David Fleay referred to the Thylacine as 'Benjamin' do you? On another site we are trying to establish when the name was first used. Popular belief is that it came from an interview with a man called Frank Darby in 1968, who claimed to have looked after the last Thylacine at the zoo but the fact of his ever working there has been strongly refuted, so the name seems to have entered popular culture from that time. Another recent suggestion is that David Fleay named it from his visit, but this has so far not been backed up with any tangible evidence.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree that the signs found by all three of the men's expeditions were not significant empirical proof.
However I do think that this is the time period which would of been the most promising in terms of possibility of finding traces of the last thylacine if indeed they still existed.
Moreover I think that the expedition leaders seemed to be earnest and unpretentious men of science or the outdoors and wouldn't have falsified reports for fame or credibility or whatever.
Yes I don't think the thylacine would have ever recovered it's former population and it was always on a trajectory towards extinction as per the critical mass hypothesis.
By all accounts this was a relict population extinct on the continental mainland and which was quite sparse in Tasmania even by the time of European colonization.