Tibetan gazelles and chirus in zoos
- Thread starter elefante
- Start date
Chirus have not been kept in any zoos in the world, including zoos in China. Beijing Zoo tried to exhibit the chirus for several years, but failed to get even one individual. There are several chirus kept in the rescue center of a nature reserve in Qinghai Province, and Beijing Zoo tried to get them, but the former refused to hand out their chirus. The other way to get chirus is catching them in the wild, but no one like this way.
The Tibetan gazelles can't be seen in the zoos outside China, too. Beijing Zoo used to exhibit them, but now there are no Tibetan gazelles in the zoos outside Tibet and Qinghai. The wild yaks in Beijing Zoo met the same fate, and it seems that these Tibetan species are not suitable for lowland zoos.
However, both chirus and Tibetan gazelles are easy to see in the wild, if you go to Tibet by train, you will see both species grazing next to the railway!
The Tibetan gazelles can't be seen in the zoos outside China, too. Beijing Zoo used to exhibit them, but now there are no Tibetan gazelles in the zoos outside Tibet and Qinghai. The wild yaks in Beijing Zoo met the same fate, and it seems that these Tibetan species are not suitable for lowland zoos.
However, both chirus and Tibetan gazelles are easy to see in the wild, if you go to Tibet by train, you will see both species grazing next to the railway!
Thanks for the info!
ungulate nerd
Well-Known Member
I would like to see Chiru and Tibetan gazelles in american zoos, but I highly doubt thats going to happen, it is probably less likey that i will see chiru because even beijing zoo failed to obtain them, @elephante, besides tibetan gazelles, did you ever wonder about other procapra gazelles in zoos, the reason i ask is because i thought you might be interested in knowing that the Osaka Tenoji Municipal Zoo in Japan had Mongolian gazelles, I dont know of any Przewalskis gazelles in zoos but @baboon, do you know of any holdings of the species ?
They are two different species.
~Thylo
I see. Thanks.
Hi, there is only one zoo displaying Przewalskis gazelles. Xining Zoo in Qinghai Province has a population of 15 individuals, six of them are born in the zoo (the information is updated in 2012). By the way, the zoo also has the largest collection of snow leopards and black-necked cranes in China.
ungulate nerd
Well-Known Member
They are two different species.
~Thylo
That is true because Goitered gazelles are (Gazella subgutturosa) and Przewalskis gazelles are (Procapra przewalskii)
ungulate nerd
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info baboon, I really appreciate that a lot, are there any photos of them in the Xining Zoo gallery here on ZooChat ?
Hi, there is on photo from Xining Zoo in the forum. And I haven't visited Xining, thus I also have no photo of them.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Has anyone (Chinese or otherwise) looked at how it is that alpine/steppe species such as Kiang, Vicuna, White-lipped Deer and (for that matter) domesticated Yak are able to acclimatise to life at lower altitudes, when Tibetan Gazelle haven't? Is it possible that Beijing's summers are too hot?
As Beijing Zoo is the only lowland zoo housing Tibetan gazelles and wild yaks, it is hard to say why the two species fail to breed, maybe Beijing's summer is too hot, but other Tibetan species, such as snow leopard, kiang, agali, Tibetan brown bear and black-necked crane, all breed well in Beijing.
beastdoctor
Active Member
Your point is interesting. In the San Diego Safari Park and San Diego Zoo it is hotter than hot in the summers and the White-lipped deer and the kiang survive alright, but I don't know their breeding success, if any. SD is also a low altitude. What is interesting, is that certain animals don't seem to do well in captivity. The okapi used to be one of them. So was the gorilla. I don't know how many animals they went through before they got their basic needs/husbandry figured out. For most zoos, the moose is too hard to keep, and the saola has utterly failed in Vietnam. I doubt there are enough of them to experiment on to ever get them to succeed in captivity. The Sumatran rhino has not done well in the U.S. Now they are considering breeding a brother and sister to "save" the species. Yaks do very poorly in the heat. Bison do alright, but I have observed a herd in southern California panting in the heat, and not enjoying it. It could very well be that certain Tibetan Plateau denizens are flops outside their native habitat, for various reasons, and will never be suitable for life in captivity. The California condor is not suited for life outside of captivity. They are constantly getting killed, even now, after release into the wild, even with the total protection and legislation and coddling and the millions of dollars spent on them.
@beastdoctor, rather curious example of Californian condor don't you think?
Not so much a climate or altltude failure ....
Their main "predators" are lead bullets driven hunters and electric power lines. In the line of duty .. it is on US conservation organisations and the USFWS to rectify those issues to benefit the re-establishment of the species to sustainable levels. However till date we have yet to succeed in banning lead in bullets used in big game hunting! And while it is rather none to expensive to insulate power lines and thus save raptors' and other birds' lives ... it has yet to be done on a meaningful scale.
Not so much a climate or altltude failure ....
Their main "predators" are lead bullets driven hunters and electric power lines. In the line of duty .. it is on US conservation organisations and the USFWS to rectify those issues to benefit the re-establishment of the species to sustainable levels. However till date we have yet to succeed in banning lead in bullets used in big game hunting! And while it is rather none to expensive to insulate power lines and thus save raptors' and other birds' lives ... it has yet to be done on a meaningful scale.
It is interesting what can live in captivity and what can't. It is also interesting how certain species can adapt. I can see yaks doing poorly in the heat but it seems interesting that the Minnesota Zoo has exhibited musk oxen during the summer and San Diego has exhibited caribou. I've also seen snow leopards in some pretty warm climates and on video I've seen of llamas in Lion Country Safari they seemed to be doing okay. It is interesting you said you have seen bison panting in southern California when there is a herd on Catalina Island and they are originally native to some very hot and humid areas in the US as well as some hot dry areas.
beastdoctor
Active Member
Bison overheating
The American bison is acclimated to the hot temperatures of the Great Plains, for the summer, and they have been translocated to multiple areas where I doubt they were native, including Santa Catalina Island, and do ok. I believe they prefer the cooler temperatures of Autumn, Winter and Spring. They definitely are better adapted to the rugged winters of North Dakota and Yellowstone than to the "Winters" of southern California where the temperatures may not dip below 40 or 50 in some areas. I also feel sorry seeing the Tule Elk in the Tule Elk Preserve in Kern County. It's a million degrees outside and they do ok, but they aren't as happy as back in the day when they had a riparian habitat and tall prairie grasses and bushes and trees to frolic in, which is gone now (almonds and cotton and dairies and houses now). The elk up in the cooler Rocky Mountains thrive more than the Tule elk, and are huge in comparison. Plus, in the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park, all mammals are perkier and more active in the relatively cooler seasons.
The American bison is acclimated to the hot temperatures of the Great Plains, for the summer, and they have been translocated to multiple areas where I doubt they were native, including Santa Catalina Island, and do ok. I believe they prefer the cooler temperatures of Autumn, Winter and Spring. They definitely are better adapted to the rugged winters of North Dakota and Yellowstone than to the "Winters" of southern California where the temperatures may not dip below 40 or 50 in some areas. I also feel sorry seeing the Tule Elk in the Tule Elk Preserve in Kern County. It's a million degrees outside and they do ok, but they aren't as happy as back in the day when they had a riparian habitat and tall prairie grasses and bushes and trees to frolic in, which is gone now (almonds and cotton and dairies and houses now). The elk up in the cooler Rocky Mountains thrive more than the Tule elk, and are huge in comparison. Plus, in the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park, all mammals are perkier and more active in the relatively cooler seasons.
I'm sure if you go to the Minnesota Zoo in the winter the animals are all pretty active in the snow. I can imagine the animals in San Diego are more active when it's cooler. I was in Disney's Animal Kingdom on an overcast and rainy day and the animals were moving around quite a bit. It is a shame Tule elk have lost so much habitat. It's also a shame that they (and other elk subspecies) are being phased out of zoos.
beastdoctor
Active Member
Elk/red deer subspecies/species
I agree. I was fascinated by the red deer subspecies the San Diego Zoo kept. They had MacNeil's deer, the Bactrian wapiti, the Manchurian wapiti, and the Barbary red deer a few years back. I don't know what they have now. They all were different. I needed to study them more to learn their differences, but never was able to do that. I DO wish they would hang on to the red deer/elk in zoos. According to Groves and Grubb they are not subspecies, but species! I would like to see MORE red deer/ elk in collections! The Tule elk looks like a dwarfish wapiti, but with a lighter coat color. The state of California nearly did away with the Kern Tule Elk Preserve, until someone discovered hidden park funds squirreled away. For now they are safe. I would like to see CALM, the mini zoo in Bakersfield, establish a herd of intact Tule elk.
I agree. I was fascinated by the red deer subspecies the San Diego Zoo kept. They had MacNeil's deer, the Bactrian wapiti, the Manchurian wapiti, and the Barbary red deer a few years back. I don't know what they have now. They all were different. I needed to study them more to learn their differences, but never was able to do that. I DO wish they would hang on to the red deer/elk in zoos. According to Groves and Grubb they are not subspecies, but species! I would like to see MORE red deer/ elk in collections! The Tule elk looks like a dwarfish wapiti, but with a lighter coat color. The state of California nearly did away with the Kern Tule Elk Preserve, until someone discovered hidden park funds squirreled away. For now they are safe. I would like to see CALM, the mini zoo in Bakersfield, establish a herd of intact Tule elk.
I've not heard of Elk subspecies being elevated to species status though I have heard of a revision that shows that all North American Elk aren't separate subspecies, but just one subspecies listed as Cervus canadensis canadensis. Depending on what you hear, the revision also occasionally includes C. c. sibirica (Altai Wapiti) as this same subspecies though I personally separate it as its own.
~Thylo
~Thylo