As has been mentioned in previous posts there seems to be a fad for most zoos to have a tick box of certain species - taking into account that as well as conservation zoos are a commercial venture so they have to strike a balance. In your opinion what are the standard 10 tick box species and what 10 should they really be replaced with. So commerce vs conversation - the caveat to this they must be replaced like for like species i.e. big cat with another big cat etc
Tick box Ticked
- Thread starter garyjp
- Start date
- African Bush Elephant - Sumatran Elephant
- African Lion - Persian Leopard
- Brown Bear (Eurasian/Grizzly) - Gobi Bear
- Humbolt Penguin - African/Maganellic Penguin
- Hybrid Tiger (Bengal/Siberian) - Indochinese Tiger
- Meerkat - White-Tailed Mongoose
- Plains Zebra - Mountain Zebra
- Reticulated Giraffe - South African Giraffe
- Ring-Tailed Lemur - Belted Ruffed Lemur
- Western Lowland Gorilla - Drill
imaginarius
Well-Known Member
If this is merely a theoretical exercise, those are excellent choices. If you are suggesting zoos try implementing them, however, good luck trying to procure Gobi bears or Indochinese tigers! They certainly need the help, but I don’t know where any zoo would even get them from.
Exactly. With the Gobi Bear and Indochinese Tiger that was what I was going for - there are almost no places that keep them, and they are both classed as critically endangered, and are a better choice than hybridised tigers (as very few purebred bengal/Siberian exist outside of their native range) and the two brown bear subspecies I named, as the grizzly is common in North America and the Eurasian is common in Europe.
imaginarius
Well-Known Member
I think Berlin keeps Indochinese tigers. There are only like 20 Gobi bears left in the wild, and I don’t know of any zoos that have them. They could easily disappear in a few years.
Wow. I firstly wasn’t aware of the presence of Indochinese tigers in Europe, but more notably I had no idea the situation with Gobi Bears was so dire. I’d like to assume they are closely monitored, but this is the Gobi we’re talking about. That is genuinely saddening
There aren't any indochinese tigers in Europe, they were all re-identified as Malayan several years ago, though Tierpark Berlin had not changed their signage by 2017!
Bald Eagle - African Fish-Eagle
Laughing Kookaburra - Gray-headed Kingfisher
American Alligator - Chinese Alligator
Ring-tailed Lemur - Blue-eyed Black Lemur
Scarlet Ibis - White-faced Ibis
Gray Crowned-Crane - Siberian Crane
Western Lowland Gorilla - Bonobo
Common Dendrobates sp. - Reticulated Poison Frog
Indian Peafowl - Green Peafowl
Great Horned Owl - Verreaux's Eagle-Owl
Laughing Kookaburra - Gray-headed Kingfisher
American Alligator - Chinese Alligator
Ring-tailed Lemur - Blue-eyed Black Lemur
Scarlet Ibis - White-faced Ibis
Gray Crowned-Crane - Siberian Crane
Western Lowland Gorilla - Bonobo
Common Dendrobates sp. - Reticulated Poison Frog
Indian Peafowl - Green Peafowl
Great Horned Owl - Verreaux's Eagle-Owl
imaginarius
Well-Known Member
Tiger phylogenetics are weird. They used to think Siberian/Amur, Bengal, Indochinese, South Chinese, Malayan, and Sumatran were all subspecies, but now they think there are only two subspecies — Mainland Asian and Sunda Island — of which most tigers are Mainland Asian “populations” while Sumatran tigers are the sole extant “population” of the Sunda Island subspecies. And since Indochinese and Malayan tigers have overlapping ranges, and neither is its own subspecies, I have no idea how they’re even any different from one another.
I think this view will probably change so hope zoos don't start inbreeding again, there are clear differences between the mainland sub species!
imaginarius
Well-Known Member
True, taxonomists are always changing their minds about everything. I think the reclassification was very recent, and it seems many do not agree with it. They might change it back in a few years.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Ring tailed lemur - Black blue-eyed lemur / aye-aye / collared lemur / one of many sportive lemur species.
Golden lion tamarin - Black lion tamarin.
Tufted capuchin monkey - Buffy headed capuchin / Kaapori capuchin.
Meerkat - Narrow striped mongoose (Ok so I'm cheating here but both are feliforms
)
Caracal - African golden cat.
Hamydryas baboon - Drill. (not based on being same families but rather on both being African old world monkeys)
Vervet monkey- Roloway monkey. (not based on being same families but rather on both being African old world monkeys)
Emperor tamarin - Pied tamarin.
Geoffroy's tamarin - White footed tamarin.
Blue and gold macaw - Blue throated macaw.
Green winged macaw - Red fronted macaw.
Green and black poison dart frog - Golden poison frog.
Agouti - Hispaniolan hutia. (not based on being same families but rather on order as rodents)
Leopard tortoise - Ploughshare tortoise.
Green iguana - Rhinoceros / Lesser Antillean / Ricord's iguana.
Domestic rat - Malagasy giant jumping rat.
Nine banded armadillo - Brazilian three banded armadillo.
Domestic guinea pig - Jamaican hutia. (not based on being same families but rather on order as rodents)
Domestic vietnamese pig - Barbirusa / Visayan warty pig.
Egyptian fruit bat - Rodrigues / Livingstone's fruit bat.
Leucistic axolotl - Wild type axolotl / Anderson's / lake Patzcuaro / Taylor's salamander.
Asian short clawed otter - Giant otter.
Ocelot - Pampas cat.
Brown bear / black bear - Spectacled bear.
Boa constrictor - Round Island boa.
Common marmoset - Buffy tufted marmoset (in some zoos perhaps some day)
Common mallard - Malagasy pochard.
Mandarin duck - Brazilian merganser.
Golden lion tamarin - Black lion tamarin.
Tufted capuchin monkey - Buffy headed capuchin / Kaapori capuchin.
Meerkat - Narrow striped mongoose (Ok so I'm cheating here but both are feliforms
)Caracal - African golden cat.
Hamydryas baboon - Drill. (not based on being same families but rather on both being African old world monkeys)
Vervet monkey- Roloway monkey. (not based on being same families but rather on both being African old world monkeys)
Emperor tamarin - Pied tamarin.
Geoffroy's tamarin - White footed tamarin.
Blue and gold macaw - Blue throated macaw.
Green winged macaw - Red fronted macaw.
Green and black poison dart frog - Golden poison frog.
Agouti - Hispaniolan hutia. (not based on being same families but rather on order as rodents)
Leopard tortoise - Ploughshare tortoise.
Green iguana - Rhinoceros / Lesser Antillean / Ricord's iguana.
Domestic rat - Malagasy giant jumping rat.
Nine banded armadillo - Brazilian three banded armadillo.
Domestic guinea pig - Jamaican hutia. (not based on being same families but rather on order as rodents)
Domestic vietnamese pig - Barbirusa / Visayan warty pig.
Egyptian fruit bat - Rodrigues / Livingstone's fruit bat.
Leucistic axolotl - Wild type axolotl / Anderson's / lake Patzcuaro / Taylor's salamander.
Asian short clawed otter - Giant otter.
Ocelot - Pampas cat.
Brown bear / black bear - Spectacled bear.
Boa constrictor - Round Island boa.
Common marmoset - Buffy tufted marmoset (in some zoos perhaps some day)
Common mallard - Malagasy pochard.
Mandarin duck - Brazilian merganser.
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For now zoos keep using the traditional taxonomy managing three subspecies in both America and Europe. As the rapport where the taxonomic revision is based on also acknowledged a Southern and Northern ecotype for the mainland subspecies, I don't think they would ever combine these two.
Meerkat - Split the current (over zealous) holdings between the three Euplerids that are mongoose-like, and Kusimanse. Then Meerkats can replace their combined number of holdings and spread some diversity whilst aiding conservation.
Coati - Going to leave Britain soon so let's replace them with Common Palm Civet, which have increased considerably anyway.
Raccoon - Again, will leave at some point so let's replace them with Tayra.
Short-clawed Otter - Split some holdings between Indo-chinese and Spot-necked.
Raccoon Dog - A species that spread out locally, but is now due to go because of the Invasive Species Act. We'll replace it with Golden Jackal.
Spectacled Caiman - Split the holdings between Philippine Croc's and Chinese Alligators.
Morph Pythons & Boas - Boelen's Python and Jamaican Boa.
Humboldt Penguin - Diversify with some Little Blues instead, but keep the Humboldt's as well, also a threatened species so let's not eliminate them completely.
Common Marmoset - Talopoin of either species. Again not complete depletion, but replace some holdings.
Coati - Going to leave Britain soon so let's replace them with Common Palm Civet, which have increased considerably anyway.
Raccoon - Again, will leave at some point so let's replace them with Tayra.
Short-clawed Otter - Split some holdings between Indo-chinese and Spot-necked.
Raccoon Dog - A species that spread out locally, but is now due to go because of the Invasive Species Act. We'll replace it with Golden Jackal.
Spectacled Caiman - Split the holdings between Philippine Croc's and Chinese Alligators.
Morph Pythons & Boas - Boelen's Python and Jamaican Boa.
Humboldt Penguin - Diversify with some Little Blues instead, but keep the Humboldt's as well, also a threatened species so let's not eliminate them completely.
Common Marmoset - Talopoin of either species. Again not complete depletion, but replace some holdings.
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There's plenty of purebred Siberian outside the native range!
As noted elsewhere on this forum, those findings are *very* suspect and likely based on a disinclination to split tigers into two species and hence end up with two Critically Endangered taxa rather than a single Endangered taxon
a fudging made clear by the fact the study in question went to some pains to more or less say "we are treating Siberian as identical to all other mainland populations, but at the same time regard it as genetically and physically distinct enough that it should be conserved as if it was a distinct taxon despite this ruling"Basically, a state of affairs made necessary due to the fact Siberian is closer genetically to other mainland populations than any of them are to the Sunda populations, but because of the aforementioned bureaucratic reasons they were loathe to split the latter off as a distinct species - which meant that to maintain monophyly they had to lump all the mainland populations together
imaginarius
Well-Known Member
There's plenty of purebred Siberian outside the native range!
As noted elsewhere on this forum, those findings are *very* suspect and likely based on a disinclination to split tigers into two species and hence end up with two Critically Endangered taxa rather than a single Endangered taxon
Basically, a state of affairs made necessary due to the fact Siberian is closer genetically to other mainland populations than any of them are to the Sunda populations, but because of the aforementioned bureaucratic reasons they were loathe to split the latter off as a distinct species - which meant that to maintain monophyly they had to lump all the mainland populations together
What idiots come up with these terribly contrived, cockamamie rules?
I mean, phenotypically Siberian tigers bear several distinct differences from all the other subspecies/“populations” — which denotes, of course, genotypic differences, as well. And I thought slight phenotypic/genotypic differences of one animal across different habitat ranges, that nonetheless were not great enough to keep it from successfully interbreeding with its closest relatives (the defining benchmark for what a species is) meant subspecies. Sigh. This is way too bureaucratic and convoluted for my tastes.