Berlin Tierpark Tierpark 2020+

[markmeier]

@Dassie rat: That's the actual essence the whole 2020+ plan is about. Very soon, Berlin will face two rather huge challenges:
-After the upcoming elections (i.e. 2016), it will become virtually impossible to further increase the debts which already make up more than 64 billion euro.
-It also looks like in 2020 Berlin may loose up to 3 billion yearly income if the coresponding law will not be continued.

So despite some recent positive eceonomic developments in the city, this basically means each of Berlin's institutions will have to provide sound economic perspectives by then. At the moment the tierpark is funded by more than 6 million each year, though, just to even out the economic deficits (the zoo isn't publicly funded any longer as of this year and would never be closed down) for several reasons. Apart from this, the city government does not provide any substantial funding for strategic investments in the tierpark (e.g. no more than 200k for 2013). At the same time such investments are definitely needed to improve the whole infrastructure/ attractiveness and accordingly the financial prospects for the future. It's basically a vicious cycle which will have to be broken by 2020 or better 2016... If it cannot be done, the tierpark may indeed be closed down in the near future and some believe it may actually be in the interest of the city government. While Leipzig Zoo invested more than 100 million euro in recent years (plus 56 mio just nodded of for the near future) and managed to triple visitor numbers despite dramatically increasing entrance fees (17 Euro as of now, 24,50 Euro as of 2020) and also establsih additional venues for income, no such perspective is offered to the Tierpark. The aim of doubling visitor numbers by 2020 (2 rather than 1 million) seems out of reach if not enough money can be raised for strategic investments. So far, it's been private donations that enabled some larger projects but this way it will take far longer than 2020 to accomplish the major projects outlined by the tierpark managers...

I still believe it can be done and will be done. Now some positive points:
-So far the people have succesfully fended off any earlier efforts for closing the tierpark by massive protests. Recently rising visitor numbers (1.06 million by 2011) will make it even harder to justify such a decision. Recent numbers even suggest the tierpark draws about as many visitors from the city as zoo and aquarium which are much more frequented by tourists in turn. Permanent residents may not bring more money than tourists (rather the opposite) but they have far better means of exercising political influence. One million visitors each year already makes the tierpark one of Berlin's most popular and frequented attractions. Other institutions get higher funding but draw far less visitors.
-As of now, dozens of millions have already been invested in the tierpark and it would take years if not decades and huge amounts of money to shut the tierpark down, (re-)allocate the animals, build back the enclosures and buildings (some of which are protected historic buildings any ways), help the released staff, prepare the site for future development. Also the environment of the tierpark benefits by the park. Besides the work of the institution with regards to research, didactic work, breeding and even reintroduction of rare species to former habitats has been recognized around the globe. Thus, a closure would be a total desaster for the city's reputation and over all it may not even improve the financial situation that much.
-The tierpark holds much potential for future development whereas the zoo can only be improved by changing details/ slightly extending or replacing buildings and enclosures by bigger, better or more attractive ones. So far the institutions complement each other (probably for their mutual benefit but definitely for the benefit of the zoo). Without the tierpark the zoo would loose many options and very likely could not keep or improve its high ranking status.

The whole argumentation obviously also holds true for other institutions in the city which will have to fight for funds. It may not suffice to maintain all of them but so far I don't believe the tierpark will be closed. The 2020+ plan has been recognized as a chance, but so far it seems like the politicians shun recognizing and acting upon their (financial) repsonsibility...

 

[Dassie rat]

Thanks Markmeier for your very detailed comments. The whole scenario is more complicated than the financial problems faced by London Zoo 20 years ago. Those were more due to unrealistic financial ventures and a government that didn't want to help the zoo for political reasons. It seems that Berlin's problems are linked with the Euro crisis, world recession and perhaps the aftermath of the vast sums of money spent on the reunification of Germany. I hope that the plans for both of Berlin's zoos are realistic and affordable and that both zoos will flourish. They are two of my favourite zoos and I would be sad to see either of them close.

 

[Yassa]

"The aim of doubling visitor numbers by 2020 (2 rather than 1 million) seems out of reach if not enough money can be raised for strategic investments. So far, it's been private donations that enabled some larger projects but this way it will take far longer than 2020 to accomplish the major projects outlined by the tierpark managers...
I still believe it can be done and will be done."

It can be done, undoubtly, but not with the current director. The problem is not a lack of money and has nothing to do with the current Euro crisis. The Tierpark got many many millions since the downfall of the wall, but it was all - ALL - invested in a way that does not make the Tierpark any more attractive for visitors. And that still continues until this very day!! The Tierpark does not even have a decent restaurant. Right now the Tierpark invests millions into the Brehm building, but not to improve the very poor housing of their stupidly large big cat collection, but to make it more energy-efficient. That is undoubtly a good idea, but if you have such a large decifit and a city that will cut down funding to nil rather soon, making the park much more attractive for visitors would be a pretty good idea. Unfortunately the director`s idea of a good new enclosure is neither good for the animals nor interesting for visitors, so nothing good will happen, not even if the Tierpark can keep the funds flowing. Just look at the asian ungulate precint that was finished a few years ago - lots of interesting species, but not a single "normal" visitor (exept zoo fans) will come for it. Most vistors will actually never even SEE this area because it is far out of the way, hilly and houses animals in unattractive green fenced enclosures.

Just to be clear - I do not want to Tierpark to become a second Hannover or Gelsenkirchen. I hate what Hannover has become, because everything they build is way way too expensive and still neither spacious nor otherwise well equipped to house the animals. Hannover Zoo spends all the money and effort to please the eyes of the visitors and NONE on the wellbeing of the animals. But there are compromises - there are ways to build attractive animal enclosures that are not over-the-top-expensive but still themed and good for the animals. Leipzig has done this so much better then Hannover, and some parts of Gelsenkirchen too. Erfurt does this pretty well, too! Many dutch zoos and Chester, certainly, have also done this really well. But the Tierpark will rather go bancrupt. The Tierpark has great potential, but none of it will be used as long as Blaszkiewitz stays.
But he has a great lobby and will continue to spend money thats not there on importing zoological rareties (like the barbary deer from San Diego..) and please zoo fans instead of securing the Park`s future.

With a good concept, I have no doubt the Tierpark could double visitor numbers way before 2020 - Hannover and Leipzig have greatly been funded by bank loans, not just from grants, and zoos are hugely popular in Germany since years. But the Tierpark does everything to drive visitors away to the Zoo and even Leipzig, and no bank with a management in their right mind would give them a loan.

 

[markmeier]

@Yassa: You definitely have a point there: Blaskiewitz doesn't seem to care that much what the average joe wants to see in a tierpark (talking both about species and enclosures). Personally, I quite like the mountain zoo and find some of the enclosures rather attractive even though I would have included some species that are both rare and popular such as red pandas or snow leopards - both already live in the park and could have been moved there. I can't confirm that normal visitors NEVER come there, though - at times you get dozens of people and they seem to enjoy it. But it indeed never gets really crowded and it probably just doesn't "pay off" so far. This might change a bit if the mountain area ever gets completed by an attractive area for cougars, otters, beavers etc. and receives a second access. But you are definitely right: it won't ever create a Gondwana-effect.

The Africanum also cannot be compared to savannah enclosures in other zoos of course and most visitors probably don't like it as much for that reason, but just as the mountain zoo it offers decent enclosures for the animals some of which are very rare and breed successfully. And of course, most visitors don't care about rare species of deer, goats or sheep and other hooved animals anyways, but I still find it important to establish breeding populations in zoos across Europe and the globe. The tierpark is one of very few zoos that can do so in a significant way as large herds need large amounts of space.

I believe you are absolutely right, though. The tierpark needs to find a compromise if it is to survive: An African savannah with not so rare yet popular species could easily be created by combining existing enclosures. The real rare species might still be kept and bred separately and should receive some displays informing about their situation and the point of their presence in the park. (The signs in the tierpark need a shape up in general - just as badly as the restaurants. I simply don't understand why they don't do them like the zoo does). Unfortunately, much of this indeed may not happen as long as Blaskiewitz is in charge - he in fact planned the Africanum as it is and he even personally wrote many of the boring signs. I still think his pragmatic (at times stubborn) approach may just have saved the neck of the tierpark as he managed to improve a lot by spending comparatively little (Africanum and mountain zoo are larger than some other zoos altogether and he simultaneously improved and replaced many old enclosures). With some 100 mio he could have and might have created far more attractive enclosures, but this way it couldn't be done the way we may have liked to see it. It also seems like he starts to accept the calls for change. He starts talking of a master plan, worlds of experience etc. and the plans for the North America area and the South East Asia area as well as the "farm experience" are described like projects by Gelsenkirchen or Leipzig. They just aren't promoted as well. So perhaps he continues to slightly change his ways and his successor can replace the signs and create a savannah in the Africanum

The tierpark doesn't invest that much in the Brehm-building by the way - it just appears like they do: In reality they just used donations (3 mio) for renovating the tropic hall and making it more attractive for visitors. They could strategically use this investment in turn to gain funds from a EU programme (some 6 mio+) that pays for the energetic renovation. At the end of the day, the park pays no more than 300k and receives a renovation worth 10 mio which helps reducing the running costs and hopefully attracting more visitors. The cages for the cats are to be improved in the near future by the way (money will be raised beginning with the upcoming year).

 

[sooty mangabey]

I need to nail my colours to the mast: the Tierpark is probably my favourite zoo in the world, and, although I wouldn't like to work for him, I have thoroughly enjoyed meeting Dr Blaskiewitz and have always found him to be utterly charming, very friendly, and exceptionally generous with his time.

Blaskiewitz doesn't seem to care that much what the average joe wants to see in a tierpark (talking both about species and enclosures).

....but isn't this what makes the place so great? I love its uncompromising nature. It is true to itself, rather than trying to appease various interest groups (as do most UK zoos, for example).

Personally, I quite like the mountain zoo and find some of the enclosures rather attractive

....me too! I think this is one of the nicest areas of the zoo, and while it is certainly true to say that....

it indeed never gets really crowded and it probably just doesn't "pay off" so far.

...then why is that a problem? It's delightful to have areas within the Tierpark that are less frenetic, where it is possible to be in relative peace, even on a busy day.

An African savannah with not so rare yet popular species could easily be created by combining existing enclosures.

Yes, yes, of course - but how dull would that be? A mixed exhibit for giraffes, zebra, ostrich, eland.... It's been done to death, hasn't it, by other zoos? And, in my opinion, the danger comes when a zoo tries to be something that it is not. Arnhem, for example, does its African thing very well - but that's very Arnhem. Marwell, on the other hand, tried to move away from being a 'boring zoo with lots of dull antelope' by building sort-of immersion exhibits for, for example, south-east Asian beasts. Disaster. It just doesn't fit the context. i fear the same would be true if the Tierpark tried to move in the direction of something other than its rather conservative, functional approach.

The signs in the tierpark need a shape up in general

My German is all but non-existent, but I've always rather liked those big general signs, such as shown here, in some photos from Devilfish: http://www.zoochat.com/141/lama-board-237042/.

just as badly as the restaurants.

Is the Tierpark restaurant that bad? I have always found it rather charming to have lunch surrounded by fish - and it's a good way to see the aquarium too. The food isn't brilliant, but it's fine - and I've had some very nice red cabbage there in the past too!

With a good concept, I have no doubt the Tierpark could double visitor numbers way before 2020 -

I would contend that it is part of the Tierpark's charm that it does not have a 'concept' that is pressed on visitors, but rather that those visitors are presented with interesting animals in a beautiful parkland, and can make of them what they will. I think most zoo fans will bemoan the fact that zoos are not taken as seriously as art museums or whatever - relevant when funding is short - but it is hard for them to be taken seriously when they present themselves as theme parks - as even leipzig does, to some extent, with the admittedly very impressive Gondwanaland. Love it or hate it, there can be no doubt that the Tierpark is a serious place, that needs to be taken seriously.

 

[dublinlion]

I absolutely agree word for word with each of the points made by sooty mangabey. The only thing about the tierpark that I slightly dread is all the walking and i would love if bike hire was available, at least during off peak times when I usually visit. (I quite enjoy a good walk but my wife and/or companions always end up complaining) It is easy to imagine how young familys or pensioners would find the walking a bit daunting although most of it is fairly flat compared to say Belfast or Edinburgh.
One thing that I did notice was that most of the staff that I met spoke little or no english and were less approachable, compared to the other Berlin zoo and it dos'nt seem to be as geared towards tourists. But it is by far my favourite zoo to visit.

 

[markmeier]

@sooty mangabey and dublinlion:
I'm very glad I'm not the only one who already loves the tierpark as it is Personally I don't need another themed zoo with lots of "fake nature" and colourful gimmicks and I also enjoy it when a zoo isn't as crowded as zoo Berlin or zoo leipzig. But isn't it rather selfish to think the tierpark does not need to change or become more attractive to regular folks, because some odd folks like us enjoy it when it's rather empty and we have it for us It's never good for a zoo when it's too empty and it won't work this way for long. (although other areas at times can get really crowded and the huge site can easily contain a second million of visitors each year and still have its empty spots - in size it's more than four times zoo Berlin which has 3 mio visits each year or more than six times zoo Leipzig which has about 2 mio!)

I actually do believe, the tierpark will HAVE TO find a compromise between pleasing zoo freaks and attracting more average visitors (which easily make up a million potential yearly visits). In my opinion, it also won't kill the character of the place (call it "genus loci" if you wish) if lets say an African savannah is created. Yeah other zoos did it before and most zoos now have one, but who cares. It would be huge and thus it would actually complement the huge enclosures of the old days (for buffalos, camels etc.) rather than compromising the character of the place. It would attract many average visitors and also be enjoyed by many Berliners some of which haven't visited that many or any other zoos with African savannahs. They only should not fill such an enclosure with fake rocks and stuff like that!!!

I don't mind the restaurants at all by the way and I like the one with the fish tanks, but it just isn't state-of-the-art and many people complain about it. They could just renovate and modernize it a bit without removing the tanks. The menu also could be improved which also goes for the summer restaurant (which I find charming as to the outside) and for the take aways. And I actually wasn't talking of the large signs which are actually pretty good and should be introduced at still more enclosures. I meant the small white signs for every single enclosure which are filled with an ingraven German text and only feature a world map with marked spots for the distribution of the animal. This is rather sad stuff compared to the signs in the zoo which are colourful yet not shrill and use drawings or symbols (e.g. for habitat, food, enemies, threat of extinction etc.) that don't need any explaining. They also contain a short German text with interesting facts which actually complement the mere data but won't frustrate tourists. In my eyey it's about perfect this way and should be copied by the tierpark. It also won't kill the staff if they were trained to speak English besides a good qualification for their every day job - these days it's an absolute basic to speak at least fluent English as a foreign language and the European union actually even expects employees to speak a second foreign language as well.

I wouldn't like bikes for visitors, though, as it would create more business and reduce my leisure experience. Even electric taxis may be annoying as far as I remember it from other parks. A second train and unlimited hopping on and off may just do the job. This way they might have to run the service by themselves though which might actually cause a problem...

 

[Taisha]

It also seems like he starts to accept the calls for change. He starts talking of a master plan, worlds of experience etc.

You may correct me, but as far as I remember the development of a masterplan was a request from the Berlin Senat in order to discuss further subventions.

I doubt however that the realization of this plan would draw additional visitors.
As one example: Nobody would choose to come only to see a new primate-house, when another one is in easy reach at Berlin Zoo. Just as the young polarbear from Russia now doesn't seem to make much difference in the number of visitors in the TP.
Personally I see the problems elsewhere: Friedrichsfelde is not only too far away from the city, people not originating from the east simply cannot identify for various reasons, some of them have already been mentioned here.
In fact, you make me think, could two new directors not be a better solution, as they would contribute a set of new but different ideas designed for each institution.

 

[markmeier]

Berlin zoo is a rather frustrating reference point and in my opinion shouldn't be the frame for comparison: It is one the city's most traditional, visible/ accessible and frequented attractions. Every one(!) knows about it and it is generally well cherished. The whole site is much smaller and therefore easier to maintain and it has constantly been improved (gorgeous plants, lakes, very pretty ways, wells and sculptures) as money was no serious issue. In recent years, many state-of-the-art buildings have been added (e.g. for hippopatmus, penguins, seals) and the new bird building alone costs some 12 mio Euro. In addition, ALL major zoo animals can be watched in the zoo along some nice attractions such as sharks and real rarities such as big pandas, tuataras or okapis, thus drawing average people as well as "zoo freaks". The tierpark only can dream about any of these factors (except the limited space).

Evalued by itself, though, the tierpark is well suited as a major attraction as well:
It has two entrances and can be reached via subway, tram, bus or car (many parking lots exist at each entrance which cost 4 Euro for a whole day) and there even are decent bike routes (bikes also can be parked in front of the entrances free of charge). Even the potential for a rather huge parking spot for large tourist busses (as it exists in front of the zoo) is presently being evaluated. Friedrichsfelde is not Nowosibirsk and in the recent past (up to the early 1990s) the TP at times already drew as many as 2-3 mio visitors each year without problems just as it easily accomodates many thousands (tens of thousands in fact) at recent peak days. They all had to get there somehow

The TP also isn't as far from the city center as some people (including many permanent residents) seem to believe and when the U5 will be extended to Berlin main station (probably in 2019 or 2020) the connection will be even better so the Tierpark gets a direct link to the city's main station as well as some of the city's main attractions such as Brandenburg Gate or Bundestag. Even now it doesn't take much time or trouble to get there. To confirm my personal experiences, I checked the website of Berlin's public transport system (www.bvg.de) for some relevant connections and the corresponding travel times:
As of now the TP can comfortably be reached in...
...15 min from Alexanderplatz (city East) without changing trains a single time
...less than 30 min from Potsdamer Platz with 1 change required
...30-35 min from Zoo (city West!) also 1 change
...25 min from Unter den Linden/ Friedrichstraße (very center) with 1 change
...about 25-30 minutes from Hauptbahnhof - i.e. main station - (soon some 20 minutes without change!)
So for most Berliners and tourists and as a realistic average, a day trip to the tierpark only means some 30-60 minutes (make it 40 to 80 min perhaps as people don't live right in the station) of traveling for both ways. I don't think this should spoil the fun. I have done it many times from different starting points and never really minded the traveling.

I believe it's much rather a question of popularity - your post also clearly indicated this. Many people and especially tourists hardly ever hear and talk about the tierpark or even know some basics about it. The PR machine starts to improve though and I hope this process will continue: Website and Facebook entry have been improved, zoo forums are fed with press releases. In addition, the BVG (public transport) was won as a strategic partner so you increasingly find adds at many subway stations and bus stops. The infotainment systems in the trains as well as the printed magazines in stations, busses and trains regularly contain articles about newborns or mutually organized activities (particularly at holiday time). Other media channels also increasingly cover such births as well as the tierpark in general and even the masterplan. So far some of these articles are rather critical though. It will be crucial for the tierpark to use any chance it gets to increase its visibility and spread successes. By the way, in recent times I met increasing numbers of western Berliners and more often heard foreign languages

I do believe, however, that in addition to efforts of modernization a second focus needs to rest on additional attractions such as a Southeast-Asia-building (great for winter time but an attraction for the entire year and apes are absolutely crucial for a zoo that wants to make evolution and diversity its overall theme), the "Rocky Mountain boat ride" themed mountain area (teaser for that part of the zoo) or an African savannah. Why shouldn't people come to see the orangs if the both the structures of the enclosure and of the group is different from the zoo? Tierpark visitors also love to watch Asian elefants, giraffes or polar bears even though you find all of these in the zoo.

As to the master plan you may just be right. It may very well have been an actual requirement rather than an own initiative. I cannot fully remember the exact circumstances, but I think it indeed was one of the requirements to receive continual funding. But fortunately it seems like Blaskiewitz also starts to see the need for modernization. After decades of criticism the Brehm-house now apparently receives top priority, existing enclosures become more attractive for visitors as they receive large windows or board-walks (but in most cases they also get expanded and receive more rocks, climbing structures, natural ground, water bassins etc.) and newly planned ones suddenly include "fun elements" like boat rides. We obviously will have to wait for the actual implementation of these plans, but I will retain my optimism as long as possible. This great place also simply deserves a future perspective.

 

[Yassa]

Sooty Mangabey, the problem with the Tierpark being unpopular and never crowded is that it will go bancrupt if it stays unchanged. And there won`t be any money to keep everything you love - especially not the huge buildings like Brehm house and elephant house - from collapsing over the animals and visitors. The situation is really serious, but Blaszkiewitz still doesn`t think its necessary to spend money to make it more attractive, or even invest in proper marketing or a better restaurant. The masterplan is the result of political pressure and luke-warm at best, plus Blaszkiewitz most likely knows that it will never be completed. Which might be a good idea because I don`t see anything plannd under his direction making the park any more attractive.

However, my main dislike for him comes from his utter disregard to animal welfare. It`s nice to know that he is charming to talk to and spends time to show zoo fans from abroad around, but it is inexcuseable that he prohibits to properly equip many enclosures with enrichment items (basic things like ropes and logs), that he actively contimues breeding with hybrids and highly inbred animals (all outside EEPs, certainly) and therefore produces animals that cannot be placed in proper zoos and end up with animal dealers and in third world zoos or far eastern Europe (species in question are for example giraffes, serveral species of monkeys, lions, tigers and leopards). He sees no reason to participate in serveral EEPs and is actually PROUD when the dominant males of whatever species father dozends of offspring to which the male in question is not just the father, but also the grandfather and great-grandfather. It is UNBELIEVEABLE that a man with such an attitude is a zoo director in Europe in the 21st century.

 

[Taisha]

and a government that didn't want to help the zoo for political reasons.

I am convinced that Berlin Zoo and Tierpark are also more dependant on political reasons than economic aspects.

@ Markmeier

"Some believe it may be in the interest of the city government" to give up the Tierpark.
I have never ever seen the slightest indication?
But it may well have a harmful influence on the development of the Tierpark, when some people try "to exercise political influence" by clinging to the director as the former and (hopefully in their eyes) future saviour. Just look at recent headlines, it would rather create divisions instead of combining the interests of all those people who want to keep both institutions.

 

[markmeier]

@Yassa: The masterplan actually adresses ALL of your points of critique when it comes to strategic investments (overall attractivity, proper marketing and better restaurants), so it is not fair to claim Blaskiewitz does not think it's necessary to invest in these fields. But how much can be done if so far there hasn't been ANY additional money and 200.000 Euro will be all they get for next year to start realizing these rather ambitious plans (which I personally wouldn't call "luke-warm at best" but rather unrealistically ambitious)??? And more than a million visitors as of last year won't consider the tierpark "unpopular", even though it still isn't enough of course.

Besides and even though we are getting off topic again: When it comes to animal welfare, breeding and EEPs the Tierpark can and should of course be criticized for some questionable decisions (e.g. hybrid giraffes which weren't replaced after they got discovered) - even though I havn't received any evidence for some of the accusations that circulate and so far all legal charges (e.g. by PETA) have been dropped or defeated. On the other hand, the tierpark already quite successfully participates in some 120(!) EEPs and international breeding programs which selected the Tierpark as a participant. Why would they do so if it was such a terrible institution with regards to animal welfare? According to the website, eight species even have been reintroduced to formerly natural habitats in recent years. Some species have been breed regularly whereas other zoos struggle to repeat this. The enclosures generally aren't bad for the animals I believe, even though some still could do with additional structure and enrichment - some also space. We already had this discussion and an own thread for such issues may be rather productive. So far I often hear quite general critique but I would like to hear some more detailed and specific critique.

________________________________________________________________
@Taisha: I don't know whether I put my lines the wrong way or you deliberately misread them. I didn't enthrone Blaskiewitz as a "saviour". I just said he might have been the right man for a rather tough job throughout the nineties. So far I'm not sure whether he is the right man for the future, though but I also don't say he isn't or cannot change enough to become it. But I certainly didn't mean to call for political activism in his respect. I was referring to the general situation of the tierpark and especially the issue of a possible closure (the people also won't ever be asked which director they want)... And if you visit some German zoo forums you will find several people who believe the city government wants to get rid of the rather expensive tierpark in the long run (funds have been cut dramatically - some 50% - for instance despite inflation). I don't know if it is true, but it seems like the political support isn't strong enough to help modernize and improve the tierpark to the degree needed to save it's future.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

It is how markmeier has so eloquently put it. The issue with Tierpark Berlin has always been the Wall (and what ensued soon after), the Treuhandanstalt and thus the lack of political will amongst most of the (West-)Berlin dominanted Municipality and Senate.

Bernard Blaskiewitz in his capacity as zoo director has at least MANAGED to MODERNISE the Tierpark Berlin with good sums of investment funds (Zoolotterie) which otherwise given the lack of political will would have fallen by the wayside and would have led to the imminent closure of Tierpark Berlin (which I do NOW see less of a realistic scenario than at the start of the Nineties). And EXACTLY this is another notion on Tierpark Berlin that the Muns and Sens rather will not talk about nor acknowledge (save for a very few).

 

[Taisha]

________________________________________________________________
I don't know whether I put my lines the wrong way or you deliberately misread them.

Just to put it right: I appreciate your comments very much. And I still hope, in the end the decisive moment may come from the will to evaluate all the criticism, and to impose change where it turns out to be necessary.

Concerning "the savior" I thought of the defendants of Dr.B., where the only motivation that comes to my mind maybe gratefulness, or hope.
For the latter it might possibly prove to have been "betting on the wrong horse".

 

[markmeier]

Just an update on some of the ongoing projects:

The polar bear enclosure still is surrounded by fences, but now some of the seats have been replaced by new ones. It looks quite decent on the first pictures: Zoofreunde Board (cost free registration required). The person who took the pictures only wonders how large or rather small the window will be. I could't tell from the pictures she posted, though...

Other than that I heard the tropic hall in the Brehm building is to reopen by the end of the year. Apparently all works have been completed according to schedule so far and it also seems like no big obstacles remain. But the official information is rather scarce...

I haven't received any news on the eagle aviary which is to be extended. I only heard there may be delays due to little eagles which were hatched earlier this year. Good news in a way, though. Some experts fear the eagles may stop reproducing once their aviary is changed. Especially the immediate nesting area shouldn't be touched they say.

 

[Dassie rat]

Thanks Markmeier

I hope to visit the zoos in Berlin soon in order to see the developments.

I wonder if one of the problems is the fact that the Tierpark was set up to placate East Berliners who missed the zoo. This meant that some species were kept in the Zoo and the Tierpark as few Berliners had the opportunity to visit both selections. I used Zootierliste to determine types of animals still found in both collections. These are as follows:

Mammals: Asian elephant, Linnaeus’s two-toed sloth, Vienna blue rabbit, dwarf lop rabbit, Steppe lemming, Mongolian jird, guinea pig, Egyptian fruit bat, jaguar, Javan leopard, Amur leopard, Malayan tiger, polar bear, sun bear, Przewalski horse, Poitou donkey,minitature Mediterranean donkey, Grevy’s zebra, Indian rhinoceros, guanaco, llama, alpaca, vicuna, dromedary, Pere David’s deer, giraffe, red buffalo, European bison

Do both collections really need to keep the same species and subspecies of various large mammals, such as elephants, rhinos, bears, big cats, giraffes and camels? I think that Berlin could save money by choosing which selection will keep each type. As there seems to be a problem in attracting visitors to the Tierpark, I would suggest keeping the popular species there and giving discounts to Zoo visitors to encourage them to visit the Tierpark.

Birds: South African ostrich, Humboldt penguin, Jackass penguin, Australian pelican, Dalmatian pelican, great white pelican, pink-backed pelican, western cattle egret, Indian pond heron, Javan pond heron, European white stork, Abdim’s stork, marabou stork, hammerkop, sacred ibis, waldrapp, Chilean flamingo, lesser flamingo, crested screamer, black swan, whooper swan, Bewick’s swanCoscoroba swan, magpie goose, emperor goose, Egyptian goose, swan goose, red-breasted goose, lesser white-fronted goose, bar-headed goose, barnacle goose, Orinoco goose, nene, South American comb duck, South African shelduck, black-backed rajah shelduck, ruddy shelduck, gadwall duck, Patagonian crested duck, Philippine duck, Magellanic steamer duck, northern shoveler, Argentine shoveler, North American ruddy duck, bronze-winged duck, red-crested pochard, common pochard, rosy-billed pochard, tufted pochard, South African pochard, canvasback, Hottentot teal, falcated teal, Puna teal, Cape teal, sharp-winged teal, red-shouldered teal, lesser Brazilian teal, Hartlaub’s duck, ferrugineous duck, garganey, Eurasian wigeon, fulvous whistling duck, white-facd whistling duck, West Indian whistling duck, yellow-billed duck, Indian runner duck, mandarin duck, European greater scaup, Chiloe wigeon, bufflehead, common shelduck, freckled duck, Bahama pintail, northern pintail, Chilean pintail, Madagascar teal, European green-winged teal, common goldeneye, Carolina wood duck, white-headed wood duck, common eider, smew, Eurasian merganser, hooded merganser, king vulture, bald eagle, white-headed vulture, hooded vulture, Western Eurasian griffon vulture, Western Egyptian vulture, bearded vulture, grey jungle fowl, silky bantam, crested wood partridge, Indian sarus crane, eastern grey crowned crane, sun bittern, stock pigeon, red-necked Sulawesi ground-dove, diamond dove, pied imperial pigeon, Wonga pigeon, snowy owl, African wood owl, palm cockatoo, Major Mitchell’s cockatoo, white cockatoo, Tanimbar corella, Cuban Amazon, blue and yellow macaw, red-fronted macaw, green-winged macaw, hyacinth macaw, greater roadrunner, violet plantain-eater, white-cheked turaco, Gouldian finch, double-barred finch, long-tailed rosefinch, blue-backed grassquit, Cuban grassquit, hooded pitta, wattled starling, scissor-billed starling, scarlet-headed blackbird, white-rumped shama, red-whiskered bulbul, black bulbul, bearded reedling, star finch, diamond firetail, blue-faced honeyeater, superb starling, fairy bluebird, Peking robin, white-bellied tanager, white-eared catbird, snowy-crowned robin-chat

Once again, there are some big species or subspecies listed here, especially ostriches, vultures, flamingos and storks. When I was compiling this list, I wondered why there are so many species of waterfowl kept at both collections. Couldn't some species be replaced by other semi-aquatic birds? I also wonder if some areas could be reconstructed to provide enclosures for shorebirds.

Reptiles: Matamata, Hilaire’s side-necked turtle, red-bellied short-necked turtle, scorpion mud turtle, common musk turtle, Mississippi map turtle, yellow-belly slider, red-footed tortoise, yellow-footed tortoise, radiated tortoise, common green iguana, Standing’s day gecko, veiled chameleon, panther chameleon, Golden tegu, central bearded dragon, Bibron’s thick-toed gecko, blue spiny lizard, tropical girdled lizard, Gila monster, spiny-tailed monitor, green tree python, royal python, Dumeril’s boa, red-tailed rat snake, Honduran milk snake, western diamondback rattlesnake

Amphibians: Axolotl, mission golden-eyed tree frog, African clawed frog

Fish: Ocellate river stingray, ornate bichir, Japanese koi carp, tricolor shark minnow, red-line torpedo barb, zebra loach, red-tail catfish, ripsaw catfish, duckbill catfish, red piranha, pot-bellied seahorse, emperor angelfish, black diamond cichlid, red rainbowfish, Lake Kutubu rainbowfish, Lake Tebera rainbowfish, bignose unicorn fish

I don't think the lists for reptiles, amphibians and fish create as many problems as those for mammals and birds, but there are duplications that could be looked at, so that each collection became more distinctive.

I remember a time when the collections at West and East Berlin were larger than today. Despite what some Zoochatters say, it isn't difficult to travel between the two collections and I wonder if the current problems with visitors to the Tierpark lie with duplications of popular species. If each collection became more distinctive, with some of the ABCs being kept at the Tierpark, rather than at both collections, this may help protect the Tierpark.

 

[reduakari]

Thanks Markmeier

I hope to visit the zoos in Berlin soon in order to see the developments.

I wonder if one of the problems is the fact that the Tierpark was set up to placate East Berliners who missed the zoo. This meant that some species were kept in the Zoo and the Tierpark as few Berliners had the opportunity to visit both selections. I used Zootierliste to determine types of animals still found in both collections. These are as follows:

Mammals: Asian elephant, Linnaeus’s two-toed sloth, Vienna blue rabbit, dwarf lop rabbit, Steppe lemming, Mongolian jird, guinea pig, Egyptian fruit bat, jaguar, Javan leopard, Amur leopard, Malayan tiger, polar bear, sun bear, Przewalski horse, Poitou donkey,minitature Mediterranean donkey, Grevy’s zebra, Indian rhinoceros, guanaco, llama, alpaca, vicuna, dromedary, Pere David’s deer, giraffe, red buffalo, European bison

Do both collections really need to keep the same species and subspecies of various large mammals, such as elephants, rhinos, bears, big cats, giraffes and camels? I think that Berlin could save money by choosing which selection will keep each type. As there seems to be a problem in attracting visitors to the Tierpark, I would suggest keeping the popular species there and giving discounts to Zoo visitors to encourage them to visit the Tierpark.

Birds: South African ostrich, Humboldt penguin, Jackass penguin, Australian pelican, Dalmatian pelican, great white pelican, pink-backed pelican, western cattle egret, Indian pond heron, Javan pond heron, European white stork, Abdim’s stork, marabou stork, hammerkop, sacred ibis, waldrapp, Chilean flamingo, lesser flamingo, crested screamer, black swan, whooper swan, Bewick’s swanCoscoroba swan, magpie goose, emperor goose, Egyptian goose, swan goose, red-breasted goose, lesser white-fronted goose, bar-headed goose, barnacle goose, Orinoco goose, nene, South American comb duck, South African shelduck, black-backed rajah shelduck, ruddy shelduck, gadwall duck, Patagonian crested duck, Philippine duck, Magellanic steamer duck, northern shoveler, Argentine shoveler, North American ruddy duck, bronze-winged duck, red-crested pochard, common pochard, rosy-billed pochard, tufted pochard, South African pochard, canvasback, Hottentot teal, falcated teal, Puna teal, Cape teal, sharp-winged teal, red-shouldered teal, lesser Brazilian teal, Hartlaub’s duck, ferrugineous duck, garganey, Eurasian wigeon, fulvous whistling duck, white-facd whistling duck, West Indian whistling duck, yellow-billed duck, Indian runner duck, mandarin duck, European greater scaup, Chiloe wigeon, bufflehead, common shelduck, freckled duck, Bahama pintail, northern pintail, Chilean pintail, Madagascar teal, European green-winged teal, common goldeneye, Carolina wood duck, white-headed wood duck, common eider, smew, Eurasian merganser, hooded merganser, king vulture, bald eagle, white-headed vulture, hooded vulture, Western Eurasian griffon vulture, Western Egyptian vulture, bearded vulture, grey jungle fowl, silky bantam, crested wood partridge, Indian sarus crane, eastern grey crowned crane, sun bittern, stock pigeon, red-necked Sulawesi ground-dove, diamond dove, pied imperial pigeon, Wonga pigeon, snowy owl, African wood owl, palm cockatoo, Major Mitchell’s cockatoo, white cockatoo, Tanimbar corella, Cuban Amazon, blue and yellow macaw, red-fronted macaw, green-winged macaw, hyacinth macaw, greater roadrunner, violet plantain-eater, white-cheked turaco, Gouldian finch, double-barred finch, long-tailed rosefinch, blue-backed grassquit, Cuban grassquit, hooded pitta, wattled starling, scissor-billed starling, scarlet-headed blackbird, white-rumped shama, red-whiskered bulbul, black bulbul, bearded reedling, star finch, diamond firetail, blue-faced honeyeater, superb starling, fairy bluebird, Peking robin, white-bellied tanager, white-eared catbird, snowy-crowned robin-chat

Once again, there are some big species or subspecies listed here, especially ostriches, vultures, flamingos and storks. When I was compiling this list, I wondered why there are so many species of waterfowl kept at both collections. Couldn't some species be replaced by other semi-aquatic birds? I also wonder if some areas could be reconstructed to provide enclosures for shorebirds.

Reptiles: Matamata, Hilaire’s side-necked turtle, red-bellied short-necked turtle, scorpion mud turtle, common musk turtle, Mississippi map turtle, yellow-belly slider, red-footed tortoise, yellow-footed tortoise, radiated tortoise, common green iguana, Standing’s day gecko, veiled chameleon, panther chameleon, Golden tegu, central bearded dragon, Bibron’s thick-toed gecko, blue spiny lizard, tropical girdled lizard, Gila monster, spiny-tailed monitor, green tree python, royal python, Dumeril’s boa, red-tailed rat snake, Honduran milk snake, western diamondback rattlesnake

Amphibians: Axolotl, mission golden-eyed tree frog, African clawed frog

Fish: Ocellate river stingray, ornate bichir, Japanese koi carp, tricolor shark minnow, red-line torpedo barb, zebra loach, red-tail catfish, ripsaw catfish, duckbill catfish, red piranha, pot-bellied seahorse, emperor angelfish, black diamond cichlid, red rainbowfish, Lake Kutubu rainbowfish, Lake Tebera rainbowfish, bignose unicorn fish

I don't think the lists for reptiles, amphibians and fish create as many problems as those for mammals and birds, but there are duplications that could be looked at, so that each collection became more distinctive.

I remember a time when the collections at West and East Berlin were larger than today. Despite what some Zoochatters say, it isn't difficult to travel between the two collections and I wonder if the current problems with visitors to the Tierpark lie with duplications of popular species. If each collection became more distinctive, with some of the ABCs being kept at the Tierpark, rather than at both collections, this may help protect the Tierpark.

While this is a reasonable and viable suggestion, it does not take into account the history of these two zoos as proud and competitive "collection zoos," a tradition fully embraced by current leadership there. If West Berlin were to jettison many of the "duplicate" species as you suggest, it would fall from its perch as the zoo exhibiting the greatest number of species of any in the world (although Plzen--another "collection zoo"--may have already surpassed it).

 

[Dassie rat]

Thanks Reduakai

To be honest, I don't think West Berlin would jettison some popular animals, even if it did help the Tierpark to prosper. Looking through the list, I wonder why 5 types of camelids and 2 types of leopards occur in both collections, never mind the massive collection of duplicated waterfowl.

As regards the current collections, Berlin Zoo has 184 species of mammals and 383 species of birds, Berlin Tierpark has 194 species of mammals and 409 species of birds and Plzen has 241 species of mammals and 505 species of birds, so it has overtaken the Berlin Zoos. Berlin could respond by replacing some of the duplicate species with new species.

 

[markmeier]

@reduakari & Dassie rat:
Well, when it comes to diversity displayed Berlin zoo only ranks that highly - i.e. first - if it is combined with Berlin aquarium (in fact the latter displays far more species and individuals than zoo or tierpark - just think about tiny insects, jelly fish etc.). In combination Zoo/ Aquarium Berlin host some 1570 species, the Tierpark alone some 860: Hauptstadt Zoo - Tierpark - Tiere & Wissenswertes - Tierstatistik - Tierstatistik 2011 So the tierpark already presents more mammals, birds and reptiles than the zoo taken by itself. And if you combine all three institutions Berlin probably is somewhat of a world capital of diversity, even if you take into account said duplications...

At the same time, I believe diversity alone can't be the recipe for the future and I also agree that duplications should be further reduced - except for rare species that are breeding successfully at both institutions and perhaps also some rather marginal duplications such as guinea pigs etc. The reduction of duplications actually also is a requirement set by the city government anyways but it doesn't go for the most popular animals/ main attractions such as elephants or polar bears. I think these exceptions are anything but consequent, though. Both institutions should complement each other and this especially so with some of the most popular animals.

By the way, in the future there won't be any sun bears in the zoo. Also both the Brehm-building in the tierpark and the carnivore building in the zoo will receive fewer but larger boxes beginning with 2013 - so this obviously means less species and likely will particularly go for duplications. And I actually thought they tierpark had a different subspecies of giraffes. Hopefully there soon will be even more attempts to have fewer but more decent and attractive enclosures with a good mix at both institutions with some unique attractions for each one. This may indeed be a good motivation to visit both zoos.

 

[Dassie rat]

Thanks Markmeier

I've visited the Zoo and Tierpark several times and I made my first visit to Plzen last year. I agree with you about the diversity in the Zoo and Tierpark. My first visit to Berlin was in the mid 1980s, when the Wall divided the city in two. The Zoo and Tierpark had very large collections and I feel there was a kind of competition between them at the time, although it was obvious that the west had more money. Since reunification, the two institutions don't need to compete with each other and I would like each to prosper. I hope that duplication will be reduced, as this will free up space for new animals and may encourage tourists and others to visit the Tierpark and not just the Zoo.