If only I had known before!
To be honest: there's a very good German expression for my true feelings regarding the number of husbands of that person. It's:
Das tangiert mich nur peripher.
Tiger King
- Thread starter littleRedPanda
- Start date
To be honest: there's a very good German expression for my true feelings regarding the number of husbands of that person. It's:
Das tangiert mich nur peripher.
If only I had known before!
To be honest: there's a very good German expression for my true feelings regarding the number of husbands of that person. It's:
Das tangiert mich nur peripher.
What’s the literal translation and true meaning behind that expression. Just asking for a friend
I never stated that all the money should go to conservation instead of the cats, although that would make a huge difference, rather I was suggesting that their primary motive is not purely in the best interests of big cats. If it was, conservation would be their primary mission, rather than maintaining one of the countries largest big cat menageries while criticizing anyone else who keeps them for their own enjoyment.
Last edited:
How is saying "the worlds tigers would be far better off if BCR's budget of nearly 4 million dollars went to field conservation rather than some ladies private collection (rescue or not)" not saying all of the money...? I don't think any of us can say for sure what Carole's true motive is, but caring for specific big cats doesn't mean they don't care about big cats in general. These cats matter, too.
I am not suggesting they should just throw away the keys and leave the current animals to perish, but I am suggesting that the money could be much better spent if their goals were truly in the best interests of wildcats as a whole. While I do agree that these cats matter, the species as a whole is vastly more important than the individual. I think that their relentless anti-captivity campaign significantly distracts from the far more important plight of the species as a whole, and likely takes donation money away from conservation programs.
Without the anti-captivity laws (which I'm not in favor of as they stand), there's always going to be these cats in need of rescue and homes, and they're always going to need to raise money to care for them. You can't just forget about these cats in favor of funding conservation issues. There's never going to be a perfect place to donate money - IMO, all of the money raised by WWF, etc for tigers takes away money from the less popular cat species that need more help - and both need funding. Without the cats, BCR wouldn't have that money in the first place.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Sadly the destructive egomaniac / narcissist thing doesn't only apply to exotic pet ownership / roadside zoos in the USA but is also to a large extent present in the world of big cat "conservation" worldwide whether it be in NGO's or academia.
I agree, there does indeed appear to be something about large felines and apex predators in particular which often attracts all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons.
Hi guys,
This Tiger King rubbish on Netflix; are these real people and real stories? If so I cry
For humanity (in America anyway)
Im hoping Im being stupid and its a soap/drama thingy.
HDB
This Tiger King rubbish on Netflix; are these real people and real stories? If so I cry
For humanity (in America anyway)
Im hoping Im being stupid and its a soap/drama thingy.
HDB
It's all real!
littleRedPanda
Well-Known Member
Sorry for repeat, I don’t get on here much mate
There's also this thread about the zoo, which covers a lot of it before the documentary was made: GW Animal Park Discussion [GW Exotic Animal Park]
There is a lot left out of the show, as well.
There is a lot left out of the show, as well.
And at least one ZooChat member @snowleopard and perhaps others who visited the facility in person when Joe Exotic was still running it. At least one other member, namely me, and perhaps others who visited BCR while Carol Baskin was running it (which of course she still is).
As shortly indicated during "Tiger King", the same can be said about primates and (venomous) reptiles.
However, based on personal observation, even seemingly innocent animals such as guinea pigs, mice, rabbits or budgies/ cockatiels, pigeons and chicken attract their fair share of peculiar keepers. And don't get me started on cat ladies and horse people...or leech keepers.
If you conserve habitat for big animals, you're conserving the same habitat for smaller ones too. The charismatic tiger, elephant or whatever (that attracts the funding) needs the ecosystem that supports the whole range of species living there.
I finished Tiger King earlier this week, and I have mixed emotions.
It was a great documentary, and for my own purposes I decided to focus solely on the drama aspect of the documentary. I had some mixed feelings because I knew that whilst this was obviously a true story, there was just a feeling to me that something was missing. Doc Antle and Carole Baskin seemed very camera-trained, so I feel that though they did say the truth, it wasn't the full truth. It's an obvious thing here that we know animal rights groups try to villainize zoos and throw out many good impacts that zoos have out the window. Carole Baskin, being an "advocate" for the animals, should be more worried on how to conserve the animals around the world instead of focusing on one man who is abusing his animals and what not. Big Cat Rescue doesn't even seem that special to me, either. Just seems like a roadside operation painted to be an eden for animals, which benefits from Don Lewis' money. She's a sneaky woman. Joe Exotic is certainly a character. He certainly did have a big heart for his animals, even if they weren't properly taken care of, but money and "fame" certainly changed his priorities. It seems better that these animals are not in his care anymore. In Jeff Lowe's hands, they seem like they are better cared for, whilst not perfect, but better. The documentary, to me, didn't seem to pick a side of who was right, so that certainly makes it hard for me to figure out how I feel about that situation.
Also, Carole Baskin definitely killed her second husband.
It was a great documentary, and for my own purposes I decided to focus solely on the drama aspect of the documentary. I had some mixed feelings because I knew that whilst this was obviously a true story, there was just a feeling to me that something was missing. Doc Antle and Carole Baskin seemed very camera-trained, so I feel that though they did say the truth, it wasn't the full truth. It's an obvious thing here that we know animal rights groups try to villainize zoos and throw out many good impacts that zoos have out the window. Carole Baskin, being an "advocate" for the animals, should be more worried on how to conserve the animals around the world instead of focusing on one man who is abusing his animals and what not. Big Cat Rescue doesn't even seem that special to me, either. Just seems like a roadside operation painted to be an eden for animals, which benefits from Don Lewis' money. She's a sneaky woman. Joe Exotic is certainly a character. He certainly did have a big heart for his animals, even if they weren't properly taken care of, but money and "fame" certainly changed his priorities. It seems better that these animals are not in his care anymore. In Jeff Lowe's hands, they seem like they are better cared for, whilst not perfect, but better. The documentary, to me, didn't seem to pick a side of who was right, so that certainly makes it hard for me to figure out how I feel about that situation.
Also, Carole Baskin definitely killed her second husband.
That's, on the paper, the core principle of a keystone species conservation concept. However, by focusing on prominent members of the charismatic megafauna, this also allows people like all of the main protagonists of "Tiger King" to justify and "whitewash" their practices with their claims to contribute to conservation by (mass) breeding and showcasing said members. And I'm afraid that the general public doesn't understand the difference between a true professional breeding centre and a roadside zoo. And many apparently don't care, as long as they're allowed to post images of themselves cuddling baby tigers online.
You know what would probably be one of the best strategies to decrease the private mass-production of big cats? By making it, without an exception, socially inappropriate or even shunned to pose with tiger babies. This wouldn't stop the die-hard fans (like that fellow in the show who claimed to go to GW Zoo on almost a daily basis), the tiger farms and the private "pet" owners. But constant social conditioning and campaigning, like PETA, BCR and other animal right activities have employed in the past and still today, does influence the collective hive-mind of the masses in the end. These days, no Kim Kardashin-like "influencers", movie stars, musicians, pro sportsmen etc. would pose with a genuine leopard fur suit or wear custom-made baby seal leather shoes; that'd be a PR suicide. If tiger cub cuddling was just as socially inacceptable, the protagonists of "Tiger King" would be robbed of a significant part of their income. Maybe "Tiger King" will make those entertainment airheads a bit more cautious; just remember how quickly Shaq O'Neal has distanced himself from Joe Exotic by now:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...nt/tiger-king-shaquille-oneal-trnd/index.html
Last edited:
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Yes , I agree , big cats make great keystone species , no argument there, but that wasn't really what I was pointing at with my comment which was more about a very common and deeply unfortunate human dimension in this aspect of conservation.
I was suggesting that perhaps the question we in the conservation community should be asking outselves is whether it is imperative that the charismatic tiger , elephant , crocodile etc. really needs a new batch of vicious narcissists fresh from the moral anus of academia who possess not only newly minted PhD's but also massive interpersonal problems and the ethical and moral fibre of corrupt politicians in order to "save" them or be their "champions" ?
Because this is a problem I have seen and heard about over and over again and particularly with "charismatic megafauna" like big cats etc. in conservation. I could mention some names of individuals and NGO's and some of their conduct to neatly illustrate this point but I will resist the temptation. I often wonder whether if the general public knew what goes on behind the scenes and could see beyond the media hype of what these "noble champions of wildlife" and "Indiana Jones of conservation" are really like when it comes to treating their fellows would they continue to part with their money in donating to NGO's ?
Actually, most of the people I've known who got involved in this style of conservation no longer work in it because they were either driven out by cutthroat conduct from "colleagues" or willingly left because they were close to mental breakdown. The only one I know who still keeps at it ... well.. I dont know how she keeps going but it is admirable.
Last edited: