Tigers, Lions, & Leopards OH, MY! (Big Cats)

vogelcommando said:
4 "Golden" tigers living in Kaziranga National Park - Assam but the park officials are not happy with it :

No reason to celebrate Kaziranga's 'golden' tigers, say park officials
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Interesting. In captivity, golden and white tigers are often born in the same litter, so it will be interesting to see if any white tigers pop up in Kaziranga. Officials may not like it because it is potential sign of inbreeding (as they say concerning these golden tigers), but the local tourism council should love it because a wild white tiger would be a huge tourist draw.
 
Arizona Docent said:
Interesting. In captivity, golden and white tigers are often born in the same litter, so it will be interesting to see if any white tigers pop up in Kaziranga. Officials may not like it because it is potential sign of inbreeding (as they say concerning these golden tigers), but the local tourism council should love it because a wild white tiger would be a huge tourist draw.
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Since Kaziranga is already famous, would it really be such a good thing? Of course they'll still market it if a white tiger is born, but if inbreeding is the cause I hope it doesn't happen.
 
Arizona Docent said:
If you needed further proof that you can be a so-called expert and not know much, here it is. A ranger in Ujong Kulong National Park took a photo of a leopard and is claiming it is a Javan tiger as potential proof they are not extinct. The department of forestry is sending it out for investigation. Ummm - hello, I can save you the time right now. It took me less than a minute to judge from the tail length that it is a leopard with 100% certainty (not to mention the fact it has no stripes).
Declared extinct decades ago, a Javan tiger may have just been photographed in Java’s Ujung Kulon National Park | Coconuts Jakarta
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This gave me false hope for a second but as soon as you see the photo it is apparent that it is not a tiger in any way, shape or form for so many reasons. It's actually quite sad that these people actually think it is a tiger. Although the image is of poor quality, stripes would be discernible on the image because they would be large and dark enough to be visible. Unless the 'experts' have an image of better quality to judge off of and can see something we can't, the cat in the photo has spots. The only area where there might just be stripes is the inside of the back legs, and even then they could well be (and probably are) just large spots. The posture of it is completely wrong to be a tiger. It is in a characteristic leopard position, head tilted down, long tail turned up at the end and with short, powerful legs. The legs are too short to be a tiger's, and they go from wide at the top to quite thin at the bottom just like most Asian leopard subspecies and male Africans (not so much in females). It is also too small to be a tiger, with the main size comparison being with the Green peahens on the right side of the photo, but also with the dead (and live) banteng to the left. In conclusion, it is just a male Javan leopard.
 
Had some spare time so I also did some searching and digging in old notes and have made also my list of cat-species seen ( all in captivity ). I've used the names used on Zootierliste ( exeption both Oncilla species ) and therefor the number of subspecies may be not correct with the current systematic ( for example : there should be only 2 Puma-subspecies but I've seen 3... )
- Lion --> Asian - African - Barbary
- Jaguar
- Leopard --> Javan - Persian - African - Sri Lankan - Amur - North-Chinese - IndoChinese
- Tiger --> Amur - Bengal - Sumatran - Malayan ( possible even Javan )
- Snow leopard
- Mainland clouded leopard
- African golden cat
- Caracal - Southern and subspecies unknown
- Serval - Southern and subspecies unknown
- Pampas cat
- Geoffroy's cat
- Ocelot
- Margay --> Yucatan and subspecies unknown
- Southern tigrina
- Northern tigrina
- Asiatic golden cat --> Chinese - South-East Asian - Tibet
- Marbled cat
- Canadian lynx
- Eurasian lynx --> Northern - Siberian - Carpatian
- Bobcat
- Puma --> Central American - Chilean - Missouri
- Cheetah --> South African - Sudan
- Jaguarundi
- Mainland leopard cat
- Sunda leopard cat --> Javan - Palawan
- Flat-headed cat
- Rusty-spotted cat --> Sri Lankan
- Fishing cat
- Pallas cat --> Siberian
- Chinese mountain cat
- Domestic cat
- Jungle cat
- Sand cat --> Arabian - Pakistan
- Black-footed cat
- European wild cat
This makes a total of 35 species and althrough I'm realy not a "cat-person" I was quite suprised by this number :).
 
ZTL mention that the now closed Tilburgs Dierenpark kept this subspecies till around 1969 and in this time I've been several times at that park but..... because I only was 3 or 4 years old at that time, I can't remember that anymore ;( !
 
My updated felid list:
-Leopard (japonica, kotiya, melas, orientalis, tulliana, "pardus")
-Tiger (altaica, jacksoni, sumatrae)
-Snow Leopard (mostly non-ssp but also whatever lives in Pakistan)
-Lion (melanochaita, persica, if valid bleyenberghi)
-Jaguar
-Mainland Clouded Leopard (nebulosa)
-Asian Golden Cat (tristis/moormensis)
-Serval
-Caracal (caracal, schmitzi if valid damarensis)
-Geoffroy's Cat
-Ocelot (mitis)
-Northern Oncilla (tigrinus)
-Margay (yucatanicus/glauculus, whatever the US population is)
-Canada Lynx
-Eurasian Lynx (lynx, carpathicus, isabellinus, wrangeli)
-Iberian Lynx
-Bobcat (rufus, fasciatus)
-Cheetah (jubatus, soemmeringii)
-Cougar (cougar)
-Jaguarundi
-Pallas's Cat (manul)
-Sunda Leopard Cat (heaneyi)
-Mainland Leopard Cat (bengalensis/chinensis, euptilura)
-Fishing Cat (viverrinus)
-Rusty-Spotted Cat (phillipsi)
-Jungle Cat
-Afro-Eurasian Wildcat (lybica, gordoni, tristrami)
-European Wildcat (silvestris, if valid grampia)
-Sand Cat (harrisoni/thinobia)
-Black-Footed Cat

~Thylo
 
TeaLovingDave said:
So a total of 30 species - slightly more than I expected actually, but barring new species coming into European collections there are only two more I can get without going further afield - these being Southern Tigrina and Iberian Lynx.
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And these two have now indeed been seen :) bringing my species total to 32.
 
I decided to tot up the list of felids I've seen and photographed (all captive except Felis catus). NB: I've mostly gone with the former taxonomy as concerns species and subspecies, although I am aware many of these have been synonymised recently. I'm also going off signage and not just what's on Zootierliste, so there may be errors.

1. Mainland clouded leopard (Neofelis nebulosa nebulosa)
2. Snow leopard (Panthera uncia)
3. Leopard (generic – Panthera pardus)
3a. Amur leopard (Panthera pardus orientalis)
3b. Javan leopard (Panthera pardus melas)
3c. North Chinese leopard (Panthera pardus kotiya)
3d. Persian leopard (Panthera pardus saxicolor / ciscaucasica)
3e. Sri Lankan leopard (Panthera pardus kotiya)
4. Lion (generic – Panthera leo)
4a. Angola lion (Panthera leo bleyenberghi)
4b. Asiatic lion (Panthera leo persica)
4c. “Barbary” lion (Panthera leo leo)
4d. South African lion (Panthera leo krugeri)
5. Tiger (generic – Panthera tigris)
5a. Amur tiger (Panthera tigris altaica)
5b. Malayan tiger (Panthera tigris jacksoni)
5c. Sumatran tiger (Panthera tigris sumatrae)
6. Jaguar (generic – Panthera onca)
6a. Amazonian jaguar (Panthera onca onca)
7a. Chinese race of Asian golden cat (Catopuma temminckii tristis / moormensis)
7b. Southeast Asian race of Asian golden cat (Catopuma temminckii temminckii)
8. Serval (Leptailurus serval)
9. Caracal (generic – Caracal caracal)
9a. Namibian caracal (Caracal caracal damarensis)
9b. South African caracal (Caracal caracal caracal)
10. Ocelot (generic – Leopardus pardalis)
10a. Brazilian ocelot (Leopardus pardalis mitis)
11. Margay (generic – Leopardus wiedi)
11a. Central American margay (Leopardus wiedi yucatanicus)
12. Northern oncilla (Leopardus tigrinus)
13. Southern oncilla (Leopardus guttulus)
14. Geoffroy’s cat (generic – Leopardus geoffroyi)
14a. Chaco Geoffroy’s cat (Leopardus geoffroyi salinicola)
15. Bobcat (Lynx rufus)
16. Canada lynx (Lynx canadensis)
17a. European lynx (Lynx lynx lynx)
17b. Altai lynx (Lynx lynx wardi)
17c. Siberian lynx (Lynx lynx wrangeli)
18a. Sudan/Ethiopian cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus soemmeringii)
18b. South African cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus jubatus)
19. Jaguarundi (Herpailurus yagouaroundi)
20. Puma (generic – Puma concolor)
20a. Chilean puma (Puma concolor puma)
21. Jungle cat (Felis chaus)
22. Arabian/Asian sand cat (Felis margarita harrisoni / thinobia)
23a. European wildcat (Felis silvestris silvestris)
23b. Scottish wildcat (Felis silvestris grampia)
24. Arabian wildcat (Felis lybica gordoni)
25. Domestic/feral cat (Felis catus)
26. Pallas’ cat (Otocolobus manul manul)
27. Sri Lankan rusty-spotted cat (Prionailurus rubiginosus phillipsi)
28. Fishing cat (Prionailurus viverrinus)
29. Generic/Indian leopard cat (Prionailurus bengalensis bengalensis)
29a. Amur leopard cat (Prionailurus bengalensis euptilurus)

Unfortunately didn't see the Palawan leopard cat in Berlin (may have been offshow at the time or just well hidden).
 
List of felids I've seen
1. Lion (African, Asian)
2. Tiger (Bengal, Siberian, Sumatran, Malayan)
3. Leopard (Amur, possibly African)
4. Jaguar
5. Snow leopard
6. Cheetah
7. Serval
8. Caracal
9. Ocelot
10. Bobcat
11. Lynx (Eurasian, Canada)
12. Cougar
13. Leopard cat
14. Fishing cat
15. Black footed cat
16. Sand Cat (was young but probably saw it)
17. Pallas cat? (believe I remember being these at Ueno)
18. African wildcat
19. Domestic cat
20. Clouded leopard
 
Just wondering, why are there no purebred Bengal tigers in the US or Europe? Unless there are but just unlisted.
 
RatioTile said:
Just wondering, why are there no purebred Bengal tigers in the US or Europe? Unless there are but just unlisted.
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There used to be, but just like African Leopards they were cross-bred with other subspecies in order to produce more impressive looking animals and eventually the remaining pure population was too small to last long. All white and golden tigers have Bengal genes, but they've long been mixed with Amur and possibly other taxa as well as inbred for human amusement.

~Thylo
 
That's too bad. Would it be illegal to import purebreds from the Indian or Bengali zoo population? Taipei Zoo has one labeled Bengal Tiger on display, but IDK its pedigree. That zoo's PR director told me they have several hybrid tigers that are not allowed to be exhibited, so I presume the sign is more or less correct.
 
My felid list: 18 species
  1. Black-footed cat (F. nigripes)
  2. Bobcat (L. rufus)
  3. Canada lynx (L. canadensis)
  4. Caracal (C. caracal)
  5. Cheetah (A. jubatus) - Southeast African (A. j. jubatus)
  6. Cougar (P. concolor)
  7. Domestic cat (F. catus)
  8. Fishing cat (P. viverrinus)
  9. Geoffrey's cat (L. geoffroyi)
  10. Jaguar (P. onca)
  11. Leopard (P. pardus) - Amur (P. p. orientalis)
  12. Lion (P. leo) - Southern (P. l. melanochaita)
  13. Mainland clouded leopard (N. nebulosa)
  14. Margay (L. wiedii)
  15. Ocelot (L. pardalis)
  16. Serval (L. serval)
  17. Snow leopard (P. uncia)
  18. Tiger (P. tigris) - Amur (P. t. altica), Malayan (P. t. jacksoni), and Sumatran (P. t. sumatrae)
 
RatioTile said:
...Would it be illegal to import purebreds from the Indian or Bengali zoo population?...
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I don't think it is necessarily illegal, but it would be difficult since it requires lots of paperwork on both ends for an endangered species. AZA accredited zoos have the most clout and would be the ones that could do it, but they already have their space full maintaining three separate subspecies: Malayan and Sumatran and Amur. It is a miracle they can even keep three so they certainly have no room for a fourth. Non AZA facilities seem to be happy maintaining bengal hybrids and do not have the desire and/or the clout and/or the money to start a new breeding program for pureblooded imports.
 
My felid list: (Apologies if I miss any, I'm not good at these :D

1. Indochinese clouded leopard
2. Tiger
3. Lion
4. Jaguar
5. Leopard
6. Snow leopard
7. Asian golden cat
8. Serval
9. Caracal
10. Ocelot
11. Oncilla
12. Southern tigrina
13. Geoffroy's cat
14. Margay
15. Bobcat
16. Canada lynx
17. Eurasian lynx
18. Iberian lynx
19. Cheetah
20. Cougar
21. Jaguarundi
22. Pallas' cat
23. Rusty-spotted cat
24. Leopard cat
25. Fishing cat
26. Jungle cat
27. Sand cat
28. European wildcat
(29. Domestic cat)

So 29 members of the Felidae, 28 of the wild. Funnily enough, almost all of those are visible at Parc des Felins :D

I'm not sure if I've seen African wildcats. I don't remember PdF having them, so I didn't put it on, but the wikipedia page of PdF claims there are some there but Zootierliste contradicts this, saying they never had them. I left it out because I don't remember them.
 
Chlidonias said:
I have put the list of 41 species on this other thread for quick perusal (it is also on page 76 of the link above, which includes their opinions of valid subspecies): online newsletter for small cats

Of those 41 listed species I have seen only 24 in captivity (all the big cats and mainly Old World small cats - I've only seen 4 out of the 12 New World small cats on that list). Seven of those 24 I've also seen in the wild. Then there's Pallas' Cat which I haven't managed to see in captivity but have probably seen (only the eye-shine of) in the wild.
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The species I've seen are below (subspecies not included).

Lion Panthera leo
Jaguar Panthera onca
Leopard Panthera pardus (also in the wild)
Tiger Panthera tigris (also in the wild)
Snow Leopard Panthera uncia

Sunda Clouded Leopard Neofelis diardi
Mainland Clouded Leopard Neofelis nebulosa

Caracal Caracal caracal
Serval Leptailurus serval

Ocelot Leopardus pardalis

Asiatic Golden Cat Catopuma temminckii
Marbled Cat Pardofelis marmorata

Eurasian Lynx Lynx lynx
Bobcat Lynx rufus

Puma Puma concolor
Cheetah Acinonyx jubatus
Jaguarundi Herpailurus yagouaroundi

Mainland Leopard Cat Prionailurus bengalensis (also in the wild)
Sunda Leopard Cat Prionailurus javanensis
Flat-headed Cat Prionailurus planiceps (also in the wild)
Rusty-spotted Cat Prionailurus rubiginosus (also in the wild)
Fishing Cat Prionailurus viverrinus

Domestic Cat Felis catus (also feral)
Jungle Cat Felis chaus (also in the wild)


A couple of additional notes:

Geoffroy's Cat Leopardus geoffroyi - there was still one of these on display when I first visited Wellington Zoo (in New Zealand) in the 1980s but my brain switches between telling me I saw it and telling me that I didn't see it. I believe I did not see it, so I have not included it on my list above.

Borneo Bay Cat Catopuma badia - I've seen a stuffed one at the museum in Kuching (in Borneo), so it half-counts.

Pallas' Cat Otocolobus manul - I haven't seen it in captivity (I think the only zoo I've been which had the species was Beijing Zoo but they weren't out), but I have seen the eye-shine of what was probably this species in the wild in Mongolia. I haven't included it on my list above though.
 
Chlidonias said:
Borneo Bay Cat Catopuma badia - I've seen a stuffed one at the museum in Kuching (in Borneo), so it half-counts.
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Well if we're including taxidermy mounts I've seen a fair few more felid taxa in museums! ;)

Seriously though, I'm in awe at the more well-travelled Zoochatters' lists of ticks :) (and a bit jealous ;) ).
 
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