Toledo Zoo toledo zoo elephant attack

team tapir

team tapir

Well-Known Member
What are everyones thoughts on Louie a 7 year old male african elephant being startled by his keeper who entered the enclosure and was attacked by the elephant.Elephant experts who have reviewed the tape of the incident do not think the attack was intentional,the elephant was simply startled and reacted.I have been around protected contact during my time working at the Cleveland Zoo.I also understand the advantages of free contact so i am on the fence on this what does everyone think

martin on team tapir
 
They really need to release the tape. It has already been established he violated zoo protocol. I filed a complaint with the USDA yesterday and I plan to do the same with the AZA. My concern is for Twiggy who was recently placed there by the USDA.
 
Thanks for bringing that up.It should noted that this keeper violated zoo protocal by entering an enclosure alone.
 
CritterBlog said:
They really need to release the tape. It has already been established he violated zoo protocol. I filed a complaint with the USDA yesterday and I plan to do the same with the AZA. My concern is for Twiggy who was recently placed there by the USDA.
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What was the nature of your complaint?

So little factual info is available on what exactly happened (Why did a very experienced elephant manager break protocol? Why did he approach the animal in such a way as to startle it? etc.

So what are you complaining about?
 
Toledo Attack

Can anyone say exactly what Handler did or is there nothing being released. Were there cameras, let us wait and see before judging
man or beast.
 
CritterBlog said:
I filed a complaint with the USDA yesterday and I plan to do the same with the AZA. My concern is for Twiggy who was recently placed there by the USDA.
Click to expand...

I, too, would like to know why you felt it necessary to lodge a complaint with both the USDA and the AZA?

Did you lodge the complaint about the keeper/elephant incident or about Twiggy being taken from her owner with minimal notification and then being gifted to the zoo?
 
Thanks for posting the video.

Two points are very obvious - Mr RedFox certainly misread Louie's mood right from the start and Mr RedFox is very, very lucky that Louie did not "attack" him seriously or he would not have been allowed to leave like that.

BTW CritterBlog - why did you feel compelled to report this incident to the USDA and AZA? Do you have any personal involvement?
 
A chilling video, and I have two words: PROTECTED CONTACT. Being an elephant keeper is one of the most dangerous occupations on the planet, and I know that in North America there are very few zoos left that don't use protected contact. Hardly any major zoos have keepers actually go in with the elephants, and that has helped create a safer working environment for all concerned.
 
Well, PC v FC was bound to become an issue again!

I guess that many people will never change their views on the two systems.

However, in the light of some recent events [of which the Toledo incident is the most serious] I am starting to reconsider my stance on the issue.

To date, I have been strongly in favour of Free Contact between suitable elephants and animal people with savvy. Free Contact has so many positive benefits for the elephants and also for the people involved.

The problem now is that there are so few people with savvy in the captive elephant world. [This is not a criticism of Mr RedFox's ability. I don't know, or know of, the man and I feel deeply for him as he recuperates from this incident]. However, there are so many people now practising Free Contact husbandry who are totally unsuited to do so. In Australia, in at least one of our zoos, we have a major incident just waiting to happen and when it inevitably does happen, the elephants will be relegated to Protected Contact.

In cases like this, where the people involved have no idea of what they are doing [or subjugate their better judgement as a result of pillow talk] it would be far safer to introduce Protected Contact right now.

Judgements on what form of contact to use should be made on a case by case basis. It would be very detrimental, for example, to deprive the Africans at Dubbo of their wonderful FC walks throughout the grounds. They should have been doing them for the past 30 years. But you wouldn't try the same walks with Burma!

Over the years, throughout Australasia, we have seen elephants that could not be handled FC by zoo staff sold to circuses where they lived long and safe lives travelling and working in FC throughout the country in all sorts of situations.

On the other hand, over the years, we have seen a couple of bulls and one cow [Burma] removed from FC in a circus situation and placed in PC in zoos.

I feel that there should not be any hard and fast rule that elephants be kept in PC. Each case should be judged on it's merits. The problem is going to be finding people cluey enough to make the judgements!
 
The exhibit is totally unsuitable for Free Contact, with no escape routes for the keepers, and the keeper seems totally caught off-guard. A 100% example of how not to keep elephants in Free Contact.

I'm a PC man, there's no need to FC but IF you have FC you need to do it properly, with a suitable exhibit and at least 2/3/4 keepers at the same time... totally the zoo at fault.
 
Its the zoo decision to do FC or PC, but like Steve Robinson said. The Keeper had misread the young bull completely. I don't think you have FC with a growing young bull elephant since he is getting stronger and more dangerous than he was when he was a calf.
 
I think PC is the best all the way, it provides much more safety and I find it is most likely less stressful on the elephants (They can do what they please without being reprimanded)
 
Steve Robinson said:
Well, PC v FC was bound to become an issue again!

I guess that many people will never change their views on the two systems.

However, in the light of some recent events [of which the Toledo incident is the most serious] I am starting to reconsider my stance on the issue.

To date, I have been strongly in favour of Free Contact between suitable elephants and animal people with savvy. Free Contact has so many positive benefits for the elephants and also for the people involved.

The problem now is that there are so few people with savvy in the captive elephant world. [This is not a criticism of Mr RedFox's ability. I don't know, or know of, the man and I feel deeply for him as he recuperates from this incident]. However, there are so many people now practising Free Contact husbandry who are totally unsuited to do so. In Australia, in at least one of our zoos, we have a major incident just waiting to happen and when it inevitably does happen, the elephants will be relegated to Protected Contact.

In cases like this, where the people involved have no idea of what they are doing [or subjugate their better judgement as a result of pillow talk] it would be far safer to introduce Protected Contact right now.

Judgements on what form of contact to use should be made on a case by case basis. It would be very detrimental, for example, to deprive the Africans at Dubbo of their wonderful FC walks throughout the grounds. They should have been doing them for the past 30 years. But you wouldn't try the same walks with Burma!

Over the years, throughout Australasia, we have seen elephants that could not be handled FC by zoo staff sold to circuses where they lived long and safe lives travelling and working in FC throughout the country in all sorts of situations.

On the other hand, over the years, we have seen a couple of bulls and one cow [Burma] removed from FC in a circus situation and placed in PC in zoos.

I feel that there should not be any hard and fast rule that elephants be kept in PC. Each case should be judged on it's merits. The problem is going to be finding people cluey enough to make the judgements!
Click to expand...

What zoo are you talking about.....oh, I see now
 
jwer said:
The exhibit is totally unsuitable for Free Contact, with no escape routes for the keepers, and the keeper seems totally caught off-guard. A 100% example of how not to keep elephants in Free Contact.

I'm a PC man, there's no need to FC but IF you have FC you need to do it properly, with a suitable exhibit and at least 2/3/4 keepers at the same time... totally the zoo at fault.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. The zoo AND the man who didn't see the signs that Louie was very clearly sending him in the first [and subsequent] seconds of the video.
 
Steve Robinson said:
The zoo AND the man who didn't see the signs that Louie was very clearly sending him in the first [and subsequent] seconds of the video.
Click to expand...

That`s what typically happens in FC - the keepers are so extremely self-confident and sure that they have the elephants under control that they are not able to understand the signs that an elephant will no longer tolerate being bossed around. And the press release after an accident will always say that there were no problems at all before and no one could have possibly known an accident were coming... blah blah blah.

Same with the recent incidents in Dresden with 4 year old Thabo and in Whipsnade with adult female Azizah. Thabo at least is in pc now, but Azizah is STILL being taken on public walks, according to the pics someone published here on zoochat!!!
 
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