Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo - Births, Deaths and Transfers 2015
- Thread starter TZFan
- Start date
I have learned some more about the female pygmy hippo the zoo will hopefully be getting from France in the near future. Thank you 2012 International Studbook.
Kindia (F)
Born: 30 Jan 2006, BioParc de Doué
Father: Clafoutis
Mother: Marisa
Transfer:2 Apr 2009, Parc Zoologique de La Fleche
Kindia (F)
Born: 30 Jan 2006, BioParc de Doué
Father: Clafoutis
Mother: Marisa
Transfer:2 Apr 2009, Parc Zoologique de La Fleche
Today the lion keeper talk mentioned the four white cubs all seem to be doing well. They are eating some meat and have started their training. Weights this morning were from 17 to 20 pounds.
Zebras - all three females were out today and have been for the last few days according to another member. Tori is again visibly pregnant.
Zebras - all three females were out today and have been for the last few days according to another member. Tori is again visibly pregnant.
The zoo has 4 new additions who are currently in quarantine. According to a number of sources the long awaited eland have finally arrived. Four males have arrived from Parc Safari and once they clear quarantine they are slated to join the giraffes. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't on display until spring like the watusi and wildebeest were.
I remember talking to a Keeper about these Eland a couple months ago in early Fall. He mentioned that Parc Safari had the Eland waiting for Toronto Zoo to pick up for a while at the time, but Toronto Zoo management was slacking in setting up the pickup date. He mentioned that Parc Safari was getting pretty annoyed and were giving hints that if Toronto Zoo didn't pick them up by winter, the deal would be off. I guess they finally got around to scheduling that pickup.
I remember asking the Keeper if Eland would be the best animal to have with the Giraffe's, he said he'd prefer to move the Zebra and/or the Ostrich with the Giraffes and look into putting something new in their exhibits. I thought that would be a pretty interesting take on the exhibits.
Eland seem like they could be boring (I personally don't know, never seen an Eland in person), much like the Kudu. And that's mainly because of their one tone colouring. They come off as plain. Although Owen, the male Kudu, has impressive horns, he's usually towards the back of the exhibit seemingly hiding with the females.
What do you guys think?
I remember asking the Keeper if Eland would be the best animal to have with the Giraffe's, he said he'd prefer to move the Zebra and/or the Ostrich with the Giraffes and look into putting something new in their exhibits. I thought that would be a pretty interesting take on the exhibits.
Eland seem like they could be boring (I personally don't know, never seen an Eland in person), much like the Kudu. And that's mainly because of their one tone colouring. They come off as plain. Although Owen, the male Kudu, has impressive horns, he's usually towards the back of the exhibit seemingly hiding with the females.
What do you guys think?
I'm miffed its another bachelor herd first off. Let Parc Safari keep some of their bachelor stock and get us some breeding stock from the US. Yeah I know I'm dreaming.
No shocking to hear Parc Safari was getting testy. They have been waiting for Toronto to pick them up since early winter. Kiko's arrival did put a much longer delay on things than the zoo intended. There was also work on the lower yards continuing into the summer if I remember correctly. That might have also caused a delay. But it has been awhile since we first heard eland were coming. I wouldn't have been too sad if we had missed out on them because I want breeding.
Are eland the most interesting option? No. Better than Watusi though. Eland are at least an SSP species. The zoo could get into breeding in the future. Watusi had no conservation value. Best new addition to the savanna this year was the wildebeest. Again disappointing its a bachelor group but I always felt the zoo needed wildebeest again.
I would like to see more of a mix with the giraffes. I would have preferred to see the zebra and ostrich move for now but it is what it is. We need to remember the space available needs to meet the animals needs. I believe the plan is for them to take up half of the hippo house. Since bull elephant, Tantor's death in 1989 that half of the hippo house as remained largely vacant. Occasionally in the winter they open it up to give the hippos more space but generally it stays closed. Some renos may be needed to house the eland before spring. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they are quarantined in the old wisent exhibit like the Watusi were. There is always hope though that once they have some of the renos done they might think again and move a species.
If I could go back an make decisions on new hoofstock and some rearranging what I would like to see done is move the zebra and ostrich to the giraffe exhibit. If the eland could join fine. If not fine. Although... if there is space I might move the kudu and marabous too as an alternative to eland. The wildebeest would still arrive and live in the ostrich exhibit as a breeding herd hopefully. I would forget the watusi. In their place I would get addax, and/or gemsbok. Gerenuks and impala will move into the kudu exhibit with the hornbills and vulture. The zebra yard would be beefed up and hold black rhinos. Now notice I did not even design anything. Nor did I select any species that's all that difficult to get. I'm impressed I held back because I could easily do more if I dream up millions of dollars to improve existing exhibits and build new ones. Oh how all that green space is calling to me.
No shocking to hear Parc Safari was getting testy. They have been waiting for Toronto to pick them up since early winter. Kiko's arrival did put a much longer delay on things than the zoo intended. There was also work on the lower yards continuing into the summer if I remember correctly. That might have also caused a delay. But it has been awhile since we first heard eland were coming. I wouldn't have been too sad if we had missed out on them because I want breeding.
Are eland the most interesting option? No. Better than Watusi though. Eland are at least an SSP species. The zoo could get into breeding in the future. Watusi had no conservation value. Best new addition to the savanna this year was the wildebeest. Again disappointing its a bachelor group but I always felt the zoo needed wildebeest again.
I would like to see more of a mix with the giraffes. I would have preferred to see the zebra and ostrich move for now but it is what it is. We need to remember the space available needs to meet the animals needs. I believe the plan is for them to take up half of the hippo house. Since bull elephant, Tantor's death in 1989 that half of the hippo house as remained largely vacant. Occasionally in the winter they open it up to give the hippos more space but generally it stays closed. Some renos may be needed to house the eland before spring. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they are quarantined in the old wisent exhibit like the Watusi were. There is always hope though that once they have some of the renos done they might think again and move a species.
If I could go back an make decisions on new hoofstock and some rearranging what I would like to see done is move the zebra and ostrich to the giraffe exhibit. If the eland could join fine. If not fine. Although... if there is space I might move the kudu and marabous too as an alternative to eland. The wildebeest would still arrive and live in the ostrich exhibit as a breeding herd hopefully. I would forget the watusi. In their place I would get addax, and/or gemsbok. Gerenuks and impala will move into the kudu exhibit with the hornbills and vulture. The zebra yard would be beefed up and hold black rhinos. Now notice I did not even design anything. Nor did I select any species that's all that difficult to get. I'm impressed I held back because I could easily do more if I dream up millions of dollars to improve existing exhibits and build new ones. Oh how all that green space is calling to me.
Lol thanks Cypher. If I were in charge the zoo would be broke in no time. I have expensive dreams. They are great dreams just expensive ones.
I think what happens with the eland will depend entirely on how the animals get along. Sure the plan might be to put them in the 3rd yard but if all goes well then it wouldn't be surprising to see all the yards open to give all of the animals maximum flexibility.
I think what happens with the eland will depend entirely on how the animals get along. Sure the plan might be to put them in the 3rd yard but if all goes well then it wouldn't be surprising to see all the yards open to give all of the animals maximum flexibility.
I have heard the same rumors as you, Cypher. I heard eland. I heard moving the ostriches... which had also been considered for kudu exhibit mates. I heard zebras as a more remote possibility. Beyond that I dont know anything about additional species. I don't even know if ostriches and zebras are still even a remote consideration... I have my doubts until the hippo renovation who knows how long from now sees them leave the old barn and move to a new facility freeing up the entire hippo house.
I know the zoo does want more giraffes. I have heard it could handle up to 8 giraffes. Now that being said that does not mean Kiko and 7 females. More likely two to three females, Kiko and young. Most likely two females and young. Now the plan was for Kiko to mature, maybe breed with Twiga (she was up there in age but as the most genetically valuable female in the SSP they would have been thrilled with an additional calf) and in time breed with Mstari. Twiga's death does leave a vacancy. However her death happened at the wrong time. The SSP was completed prior to her death. All females have been assigned. No new females were assigned to Toronto. Unless they reconsider things there will be no new female until more females are born and mature. That being said... Calgary has a new Masai Giraffe female arriving from San Diego, Marcie (who herself is descended from Toronto stock. She is Ginetta's granddaughter). Marcie is to breed with Nabo. Their offspring is to be swapped with Toronto's once they begin to arrive. Unfortunately I have a nasty feeling Toronto will be getting Nabo's first daughter, little Moshi. Moshi is only half Masai and I cannot see the SSP wanting her breeding so she would take up valuable breeding room. She will be available to move in the spring of 2017. I would much rather she stay Calgary's problem or for her to head off to any other Canadian zoo. I would rather wait for a genetically valuable calf from Calgary. Given the weather Marcie probably wont be moving north until the spring but she is a 4 year old so breeding between her and Nabo could happen right away. Mstari will need another two years before Toronto will even consider breeding her and Kiko.
I know the zoo does want more giraffes. I have heard it could handle up to 8 giraffes. Now that being said that does not mean Kiko and 7 females. More likely two to three females, Kiko and young. Most likely two females and young. Now the plan was for Kiko to mature, maybe breed with Twiga (she was up there in age but as the most genetically valuable female in the SSP they would have been thrilled with an additional calf) and in time breed with Mstari. Twiga's death does leave a vacancy. However her death happened at the wrong time. The SSP was completed prior to her death. All females have been assigned. No new females were assigned to Toronto. Unless they reconsider things there will be no new female until more females are born and mature. That being said... Calgary has a new Masai Giraffe female arriving from San Diego, Marcie (who herself is descended from Toronto stock. She is Ginetta's granddaughter). Marcie is to breed with Nabo. Their offspring is to be swapped with Toronto's once they begin to arrive. Unfortunately I have a nasty feeling Toronto will be getting Nabo's first daughter, little Moshi. Moshi is only half Masai and I cannot see the SSP wanting her breeding so she would take up valuable breeding room. She will be available to move in the spring of 2017. I would much rather she stay Calgary's problem or for her to head off to any other Canadian zoo. I would rather wait for a genetically valuable calf from Calgary. Given the weather Marcie probably wont be moving north until the spring but she is a 4 year old so breeding between her and Nabo could happen right away. Mstari will need another two years before Toronto will even consider breeding her and Kiko.
arcticwolf
Well-Known Member
I was wondering what happened to the eland. I'm glad they've finally arrived. I don't mind that they got a non-breeding group since eland aren't endangered and I don't think babies would be that big of a draw. Eland are actually one of the more the interesting antelope in my opinion because of their large size. I think they will make a nice addition to the giraffe exhibit, which is feeling empty since Twiga passed away. Hopefully more giraffes will be brought to the zoo soon, although I realize how difficult that is.
Since some of you were talking about what you would rather see in the giraffe exhibit, I actually like the eland there. If I made any changes I would move the ostriches in with the Watusi, because that exhibit is big for so few animals (also because they're domestic). Then the ostrich exhibit could be used for the wildebeest. It will give them more space and also once the Canadian Domain is closed, no one will want to walk over and see them. I also don't think it would be good to mix the zebras with anything since they can sometimes be aggressive towards other animals.
Since some of you were talking about what you would rather see in the giraffe exhibit, I actually like the eland there. If I made any changes I would move the ostriches in with the Watusi, because that exhibit is big for so few animals (also because they're domestic). Then the ostrich exhibit could be used for the wildebeest. It will give them more space and also once the Canadian Domain is closed, no one will want to walk over and see them. I also don't think it would be good to mix the zebras with anything since they can sometimes be aggressive towards other animals.
Eland may not be endangered or even threatened but they are a species with an SSP. You are right though their calves wouldn't be a huge draw... not much will be able to compete with this year's crop of babies except the rhino calf and maybe an orang infant. However I still like breeding stock.
Definitely agree one can never have too many giraffes. I would just be happier with three than two. I'm back to worrying about one of them being alone if anything happened to the other. It's not as big a concern as it was with Twiga and Mstari because they are both so young but still it only takes an illness or accident and we have a lonely giraffe. Considering the work that would have to go into getting a replacement across the border it would be awhile for one to be alone. I'll just always feel better when we have three or more giraffes.
Oh lots of other zoos exhibit zebras in mixed groupings and they do just fine. Like anything it would probably depend on the individuals.
You do bring up an interesting point. When the domain does close the wildebeest become even more isolated than they are now. I would like to see more exhibits around there. I think more could easily be added in there to really give that area a boost in foot traffic. Problem is a lack of money to just add more exhibits. Just think of the things that could happen if only they had the money to expand into the green space at the back of the savanna and the green space around the African zoomobile station. A couple of really big exhibits could be added even if you moved the hippos completely and gave them a massive exhibit. Oh good I have started planning bigger again. But forget that for a moment... the wildebeest exhibit will never really be visited once the domain is gone. They could definitely benefit from total access to the ostrich yard. Just further convinces me the ostriches need to move in with the giraffes which has been my big hope since it was announced the giraffes were moving into the elephant exhibit. Even if nothing else were to join the wildebeest I still prefer the ostriches with the giraffes.
Definitely agree one can never have too many giraffes. I would just be happier with three than two. I'm back to worrying about one of them being alone if anything happened to the other. It's not as big a concern as it was with Twiga and Mstari because they are both so young but still it only takes an illness or accident and we have a lonely giraffe. Considering the work that would have to go into getting a replacement across the border it would be awhile for one to be alone. I'll just always feel better when we have three or more giraffes.
Oh lots of other zoos exhibit zebras in mixed groupings and they do just fine. Like anything it would probably depend on the individuals.
You do bring up an interesting point. When the domain does close the wildebeest become even more isolated than they are now. I would like to see more exhibits around there. I think more could easily be added in there to really give that area a boost in foot traffic. Problem is a lack of money to just add more exhibits. Just think of the things that could happen if only they had the money to expand into the green space at the back of the savanna and the green space around the African zoomobile station. A couple of really big exhibits could be added even if you moved the hippos completely and gave them a massive exhibit. Oh good I have started planning bigger again. But forget that for a moment... the wildebeest exhibit will never really be visited once the domain is gone. They could definitely benefit from total access to the ostrich yard. Just further convinces me the ostriches need to move in with the giraffes which has been my big hope since it was announced the giraffes were moving into the elephant exhibit. Even if nothing else were to join the wildebeest I still prefer the ostriches with the giraffes.
Jake.Roberts
Well-Known Member
I would personally love to see a bigger and better hippo exhibit, maybe one with underground /swimming pool viewing, then there might be room for breeding! That would be awesome.
Jake.Roberts the bigger hippo exhibit is coming. It is part of the upcoming master plan. Reports relating to what they want to do going forward have suggested a much bigger exhibit with separate bull holding, plans for multiple cows and calves, indoor viewing in winter in a new bigger better barn and possible underwater viewing. It needs to be done to meet standards. Problem is that is going to be a very expensive exhibit for a single species given the massive specialized filtration system it will require to deal with hippo poop. It's also further back on the massive list of big projects the zoo needs to tackle. The master plan is supposed to be a 10 year plan so I won't be surprised to see it as the final project. And even though its a 10 year plan we all know how far behind most projects fall (6 months to a year behind). I would think we would be looking at the hippos 15 years at least from now.
Yeah, I would love to see the hippos get a better exhibit, along with new hippos for breeding, but that isn't for another, like TZFan said, 15+ years.
I find the biggest challenge the zoo faces, ais making exhibits for the winter months when the animal needs to be indoors. A good chunk of our animals just aren't view-able during he winter.
Warthogs/Red River Hogs (sometimes alternate on exhibit indoors, although it's usually the Red River Hogs), Hippos, Kudu and birds in Kudu exhibit, White Rhinos, Zebra, Olive Baboons (depending on temperature), Ostriches, Wildebeest, Sable antelopes, African Porcupine and Watusi are all off exhibit. Penguins are pretty much off exhibit, as I find that indoor viewing seemingly pointless on the colder days. The glass is usually covered in condensation. And that doesn't included the animals only seen on the Zoomobile. After thanksgiving, you have to wait until mid may to see them again.
I feel like the zoo has a lot of wasted space that they can us to build good, sizable indoor facilities that would allow the public to see some of these animals during the winter, but again, it all comes down to money, which they don't have.
I find the biggest challenge the zoo faces, ais making exhibits for the winter months when the animal needs to be indoors. A good chunk of our animals just aren't view-able during he winter.
Warthogs/Red River Hogs (sometimes alternate on exhibit indoors, although it's usually the Red River Hogs), Hippos, Kudu and birds in Kudu exhibit, White Rhinos, Zebra, Olive Baboons (depending on temperature), Ostriches, Wildebeest, Sable antelopes, African Porcupine and Watusi are all off exhibit. Penguins are pretty much off exhibit, as I find that indoor viewing seemingly pointless on the colder days. The glass is usually covered in condensation. And that doesn't included the animals only seen on the Zoomobile. After thanksgiving, you have to wait until mid may to see them again.
I feel like the zoo has a lot of wasted space that they can us to build good, sizable indoor facilities that would allow the public to see some of these animals during the winter, but again, it all comes down to money, which they don't have.
Jake.Roberts
Well-Known Member
What do the white rhino's do for the winter?
Jake.Roberts
Well-Known Member
Is the Rhino house not just a barn that also houses the kudu and zebra? So basically they have a barn stall for the winter, that kind of sucks!
The Rhinos and Zebra share the same barn/house, possibly with some other animals, I'm not sure. The Kudu have their own house that they share with the birds in their exhibit, and again, maybe with some other animals.
But from what I understand, there is plenty of room in the houses/barns. It's not just a stall giving the animals no room to move. Plus they have access to the outdoors if they choose it.
You can actually check it out on google maps. Just search for Toronto Zoo and it the Satellite button in the bottom left.
But from what I understand, there is plenty of room in the houses/barns. It's not just a stall giving the animals no room to move. Plus they have access to the outdoors if they choose it.
You can actually check it out on google maps. Just search for Toronto Zoo and it the Satellite button in the bottom left.