Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo - Births, Deaths and Transfers 2015

From what I remember of the lion house there's only 6 individual holding pens. If the lions were from a private breeder how did the animals become like an zoo acceptable animal- it's kind of hard to word, like could the zoo just go to any private breeder and pick up an animal how does that process work?
 
When the zoo decides to send these cubs out when they are older, how would that work? Would they be lent out like any other animal, or will they be outright sold or given to other zoos, in that they no longer have ownership of the cubs?

Also, how did it work with Lindy and Jerroh's older brother Simba? Does the Toronto Zoo still own him, or not?
 
Cypher I think what happens with the cubs will depend on the situation. They will likely go on loan if they are staying in North America. However if they are heading overseas its more likely they will be traded for something else or sold. Likely once the zoo knows their genders they will start to put out feelers to see who is interested in them.

Unlike most other animals where the SSP will assist with placement, the lion SSP will have nothing to do with white lions. Responsibility for finding new homes will rest completely with Toronto. Most AZA zoos will turn down the offer. They will follow AZA policy. With that said it is possible they will go to an AZA zoo because its a recommendation to avoid white lions and tigers not a hard and fast rule forbidding it. It's more likely they will stay with a CAZA zoo or head overseas.

Japan in particular would be a big contender. They love white lions. Toronto could trade the cubs to Japan for another species bringing enhanced genetics to North American populations. Back in the 1980's for example I know Toronto send a bunch of Lion Tailed Macaques to Japan or China and in return about that time the zoo picked up... I want to say red pandas but can't be certain... I remember when I initially did all of my research there was a big export of Macaques and from the same zoo they went to, another species was sent back in return. If overseas does happen then ownership will likely go to the new zoo.

I don't know how the deal with Simba worked. It could have gone either way. I don't even know if Toronto owned Simba in the first place. Remember Nokonda was from Philadelphia Zoo... though I think they gave her to Toronto in exchange for ownership of some of our devil babies. And while I know where Nokonda came from, I have absolutely no clue where Rowdy came from. He could have been owned by Parc Safari, Toronto or another zoo. So when it comes to Simba, Lindy and Jerroh they could be owned by 3 separate zoos. Toronto might not have had to place Simba. Someone else may have been responsible. With their unique parentage the boys are not covered in a studbook to even get a base to work from.
 
Thanks for that TZFan. Someone I know was asking, and I wasn't sure on the full details.
 
Rowdy was actually raised in the GTA and lived in someone's garage. He eventually grew too big for the owner, and the owner decided it was best to notify the authorities. The Toronto Zoo brought him in and paired him with their female white lion Nokanda (who coincidentally was acquired due to a bet between the Mayors of Philadelphia & Toronto over who would win the 1993 World Series......). I also believe the zoo no longer has control over Simba as they desperately needed him gone due to space concerns and the fact that there were 4 male lions on exhibit. Hope this helps :)
 
animalman0341 said:
Rowdy was actually raised in the GTA and lived in someone's garage. He eventually grew too big for the owner, and the owner decided it was best to notify the authorities. The Toronto Zoo brought him in and paired him with their female white lion Nokanda (who coincidentally was acquired due to a bet between the Mayors of Philadelphia & Toronto over who would win the 1993 World Series......). I also believe the zoo no longer has control over Simba as they desperately needed him gone due to space concerns and the fact that there were 4 male lions on exhibit. Hope this helps :)
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I'm almost certain that Rowdy lived in a garage in Texas, not the GTA.
 
I love how the article mentions the loss of one twin in Washington and makes it seem as though Mei Xiang rejecting the cub was the direct cause of the death. Reality was the second cub was extremely small and while she did refuse swaps, he died after spending time with her. He died due to food aspirating into his lungs during a tube feeding causing pneumonia. His death had little to do with twin swapping not working. Twin swapping gave the little guy a fighting chance.

It also totally neglects to mention the enormous success of twin swapping in Atlanta two years ago with their thriving twins Mei Huan and Mei Lun. The Chinese twin swap all of the time too with great success.

Chinese twin swapping experts probably have arrived already and are just waiting for the birth to do whatever is necessary.

If anyone wants to know more about twin swapping trying going back and reading Zoo Atlanta's excellent blog dating all the way back to their twins birth. For anyone interested, I did you a favour and went to the birth. Slid down to the bottom of the page and read towards the top.

panda cub updates - cubs birth - 3 months
 
Cheetahs - Jamoccha has died. She was 12 years old.

White Lion Cubs - the zoo is hoping to have them on exhibit within two months. Makali is still looking after them well. At 12 days old initial medical exams have not taken place yet, so sexes have not been determined.

As of yesterday morning no decision has been made about making room for the cubs. It is still under discussion as there is not enough room in the exhibit holdings, there are no other lion spaces, and no off-exhibit holdings are suitable. Looks like some will have to leave soon and the obvious is the two 15-year old boys. Did making a plan before breeding them make too much sense for TZ?

There are other facilities that close for the winter that have held animals for TZ in the past so that is my guess. It seems to me they should not have been holding three males so close together anyway once Fintan matured.

Bats - did anyone know there are bats in the large cage in African Rainforest that holds touracos and other birds? I saw them by chance yesterday, while trying to zoom in on the touracos but there were no keepers around at the time to ask about them.
 
Good haul on info Mr. Wrinkly.

Jamoccha's death is no surprise. Last I remember hearing a few months ago, they were expecting her to past at any time given her age.

Having the cubs on exhibit in 2 months sounds great. I think the only real thing that might stop that is early winter cold arriving. Even though I like going during the winter when virtually no one is around I'm hoping for a tame winter, which in hand benefit the zoo much more. I'm wondering if the zoo is hoping for a specific gender for the cubs. Would males be easier to move around than females or vice versa ?

So no plans on what to do in terms of spacing. Kind of sucks that that they have no offsite exhibits that are suitable for holdin lions. Although, I kind of understand why they haven't made immediate arrangements. From the press release and articles I've read, thy weren't expecting this until about mid-September when Makali started showing signs of being Pregnant. I remember during the summer Keepers mentioning breeding happening, but for the most part they didn't think they'd be successful.

I never knew the zoo has sent animals to other facilities in the past for the winter. Any examples of times this has happened?

Never knew of any bat aside from the ones in the burrows exhibit. Is this in the large cage that visitors can only see from a distance?
 
As is most species females are usually preferable particularly in species where a group is usually lead by a single breeding male. Now in lion prides brothers brothers can stay together, usually as a pair (trios are rare and often surplus stock). A lot of the placement value for the white lions will depend on their colour. If they are white it will be easier. Tawny cubs will still have value in that they can produce other white lions but for display purposes they may be less desirable.
 
Well that makes sense. I guess all we can do know is wait and see how things develop.
 
All four lion cubs appear to be white based on the video the zoo uploaded to facebook.
 
That's great news. Let's hope everything works out well and both cubs stay healthy.

I'm guessing a lot of attention will be given to the one that weighs less.
 
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