Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Births, Deaths and Transfers 2021

that's a shame to hear about the meerkats even if we all suspected it, they were some of my favourites. good news is Mr. P can housesit in that exhibit for the time being and by the time he's passed the border will hopefully be open and we can get a new mob, hopefully one that can breed

I wouldn't be surprised if they were waiting on Luca to pass before they started reno on the jaguars, that way they wouldn't have to room him somewhere while construction was happening. Last I checked all 3 monkeys are still here and they need to be gone before anything starts as well so they're waiting for something. Here's hoping that this'll be a new beginning for the species at TZ and we can finally get cubs!

That's interesting if the zebras are in the Domain but I wouldn't be surprised, last time I went down there they were using the former musk ox yard for bachelor bison so maybe they've sectioned a bit of it off for Jake's group? I've only ever seen the girls in the Savanna yard but I figured the boys swapped in later in the day. I might do the Domain later this year if I'm up to it so if I do I'll definitely investigate
 
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Meerkats being brought in from within Canada isnt outside if the realm of possibility. They are not yet overly related in Canada so we could pick up a male and female from two other Canadian zoos and breed. The speed at which they might be replaced I think would depend on the African crested porcupine, Mr P. If he is healthy and they think he would be agreeable to a young mob and they can find youngsters who should do well with an exhibit mate then yeah we wouldnt have to wait him out too. But if hes sickly then no.

Im torn on the jaguar situation. Clearly it would be ideal to have no jaguars to do the work. Undoubtedly. However the zoo seems to have a real push on to get the spider monkeys rehomed. Why beg the SSP to place them if you didnt want to do the work sooner rather than later? Luca could easily live into his early to mid 20s. And while thats not so far away anymore it can still be a long time with an empty exhibit. Then again the zoo might know something about Luca's health we dont know and maybe he has a condition that will take him sooner rather than later so better get the monkeys placed ASAP. In an ideal world we wouldnt have to give up the monkeys. I love the spider monkeys. They are always so active and lively. I'd almost trade lazy jaguars who hardly move for more monkeys. Take the exhibit the opposite way and add other monkey species to the exhibit. I would kill for squirrel monkeys. Jaguar cubs though would be amazing to see. Can we just make the temple bigger so we don't have to give up anything? Oh right the zoo is poor. Curse you reality!!!
 
My hope is that the construction will happen over this winter if the monkeys have left by then, since the only thing that goes outside in the winter at the Ruins is the jaguars (occasionally) it wouldn't be hard for them to just keep Luca inside for the winter and just say the Ruins is closed until spring due to construction. It doesn't seem like that big of a job, they just have to knock down the wall and then big cat-proof the new area.

I love the jaguars and I'm happy they're getting the expansion because they can be incredibly hard to see in their current home at times, plus finally getting cubs would be just awesome, but I love the monkeys too and I'm sad to see them go. I really hope that they're still working on giving Americas the expansion it desperately needs because that massive stretch of empty space between the pavilion and the Ruins is just begging to have something put there. If I got to pick I still really want giant anteaters there but a massive monkey complex sounds amazing too. I've wanted howler monkeys for a long time
 
Not to take us further off topic here but you are right they could do the work in the winter to a certain degree with minimal impact, especially if you can use the monkey holding as more space for the jaguar. I would hope though its more extensive work than just ripping down a wall. I would like to see a genuine effort made to make a better exhibit not just expand it and say good enough. I'd like work that should take at least a year to complete because then it would be a real transformation.
 
TZFan said:
@StellarChaser, Katani's passing was announced two weeks ago with along with tawny frogmouth Makepeace. You probably just missed my post. Happens. The zoo posted on Facebook if you want all the details. The motmot is a new piece of info. He was old so not so surprising. Shame though I doubt they will replace him.

More species on phase out... off the top of my head...

chamois
Barbary sheep
Barbary apes
Himalayan tahr
tur (even though they keep breeding)
domestic yak
lion tailed macaque
mouflon
Indian rhino
wrinkled hornbill
red billed blue magpie
clouded leopard
zebra dove (if not already dead)
ring necked pheasant
reindeer (might already be dead)
African otter
straw coloured fruit bat (likely)
naked mole rat (if not gone already)
African shelduck
African crested porcupine
olive baboon
white lion
river hippo
elk
bettong
Matschie’s tree kangaroo
common marmoset
prehensile tailed porcupine
spider monkey
capybara (possibly)
jaguar (likely temporary while the exhibit is worked on so probably a year or 2 absence)

Probably missing some.

Plus we have the question of the status of the meerkats. I do think if they are dead which is entirely possible but as of yet unconfirmed they will be replaced but with the border it might be a wait.
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So the Zoo is going to reduce the species collection below 400? Since this list has 31 species that will be removed, and some other species have already been phased out like Mata Mata Turtle, Secretary Bird, etc. Will there be any phase-in species?
 
Im sure there will be some. They have announced plans for some new species like takin, markhor, caracal, whooping crane, sea otters and koala (dont hold your breath simply because any pre covid plans could fall apart with the Aussies before importing is possible). Not all will be replaced as the space will be used to better care for what remains. I know I have heard on and off for years the savanna keepers are pushing for adding a hoofstock species or two. With the rhinos leaving clearly that's a huge space that needs massive redevelopment and probably means several smaller animals. Whatever they do with the Americas could have a huge impact on species. If they go tropical Americas for example like the old master plan outlined and move all the North American animals out that would have required they add a bunch of species. Hard to say what will come down the line as the other species phase out.
 
If Straw-Coloured Fruit Bat and Naked Mole Rats are phased out, what is the future plan of the African Burrow & Cave room?
TZFan said:
sea otters
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HaHa one day I talked with a keeper of the Canadian Domain, and she said if she has the right of making decision on bringing new species, she will go for the Sea Otters. Then her dream may come true. But I don't think the Canadian Domain currently has any exhibit suitable for Sea Otters. Does the Zoo has plan where to place the Sea Otters' exhibit if truly bring them in?
 
Last I heard Burrows & Caves was gonna become something related to ZooCamp I think? Either that or it'll be a staff room for Africa keepers. I want it to become a new part of the Rainforest dedicated to nocturnal animals as much as the next guy but I don't think it's gonna happen :(

Sea otters are gonna be part of the new entrance once that gets done! Here's the plans if you haven't seen them yet, it's the next project on the list once the orangs get done
 
Two new domestic goats have moved into the Kids Zoo, named Easter Bunny and Molly Bean. Easter Bunny has an amputated leg thanks to a broken leg he received in quarantine that turned into an infection. Eventually the zoo hopes to introduce them to Goat World but they're holding off on that while Easter Bunny is on the mend.
 
Hi - just curious if anyone knows why the zoo plans to phase out Clouded Leopards + Indian Rhinos?

Thanks in advance.
 
@Akula makes sense they are bringing in a few more goats. The current four are getting up there. Poor Easter Bunny though. Thats horrible luck for him.

@Cowdoy1010, there are currently no plans to move the clouded leopards out though phase out is still the ultimate plan. For now they should be around for awhile.

The rhinos are a slightly different story. Asha has been recommended to transfer to Center for the Conservation of Tropical Ungulates in Florida to breed with one of their males. Vishnu and Kiran on the other hand are to stay here for the time being. I'd guess once Asha is gone they might try to introduce father and son to hold a bachelor herd. So in terms of phase out if you dont have a breeding female you are on your way to phase out. Dumb thing is the bull they have chosen for Asha is less valuable genetically than Vishnu. If we aren't moving them all out right away we should have asked them to place Nandu to free up maturing space at Safari Niagara for Kiran. Both boys are extremely high ranking thanks to Asha, and to a lesser extend Vishnu who is still really good himself. Nandu could be in a herd breeding several females and spreading those great genetics faster than Asha can on her own. Then until they are ready for full on phase out they could enjoy the benefit of calves every so many years. But Im not one of the people making the bad decisions at the zoo so... yeah.
 
Sorry to correct you @TZFan but I wasn't the one who mentioned the Goats and I think the credit is for @hyena142. I Don't want to be taking anyone else's credit. Great to hear that the Goat World Family is growing.
 
@TZFan That all makes sense - but I guess my question is more so why they are phasing them out, even if it may be eventually?

Same with Lions - I feel like those draw in some big numbers. I just don't understand why these animals specifically are being phased out and was curious as to if anyone had more insight.
 
@Cowdoy1010, I believe they want to phase out the White Lions, letting them live out the rest of their lives. The plan is to move back to Tawny Lions in the future.

Also, welcome back to the forums.
 
@Akula and @hyena142, oops my bad. I should know better then to try and function while sleep deprived.

@Cowdoy1010, the clouded leopards are on phase out because the Malayan Woods is being torn down eventually. It sits on ground that is slowly becoming a danger thanks to the hillside its on eroding. It would be more expensive than its worth to try and engineer a solution to keep it stable. Not going to fall off the hillside tomorrow but it is becoming dangerous enough that during the next master plans life span (probably 10-15 years) it will need to go.

I cannot for the life of me understand or accept the rhinos. I do recognize they likely need a brand new barn that is bigger to fit a family in plus the babirusa (who I would actually mix with the gibbons full time). With the tahr phase out completion only probably a matter of time there will be more ground available plus the space it sits on is not being used well as is. It would be an expensive reno but right now they are your biggest wow factor animal anywhere near close to the gates. Yes the Amurs are over on the other side but they are a much further hike away. And yes the sea otter/penguin exhibit is coming but still I don't know what you would replace them that will give a wow factor to Indo unless you do a new mini pavilion and include some cool critters in that but it will be probably even more expensive than a rhino reno. I have a bad feeling that the rhinos might be where they try and put in rescued animals like they were pitching a few months ago. I dont see the point in taking up space from an SSP species with conservation value to add exotic rescues someone shouldnt have had. Sigh...

@cypher is right about the white lions. The plan is to switch back to tawnies. The AZA does not recommend keeping species for colour variants (mostly that applies to white lions and white tigers but can be applied to just trying to produce black jaguars through selective breeding, naturally occurring blacks are fine). To keep these lines going there is a severe amount of inbreeding (worse in the tigers but getting there in lions). Anyone who has whites are being asked to not breed and phase them out. The SSP will not assist in placing white cubs. The zoo had to work on its own to find homes for the boys but it was going to be very possible the zoo would have been stuck with them for life like Lindi and Jerrho who were born to a white mother and a tawny father. I believe keepers are really hoping when the white pride is down to its final member and they start looking for a new pride they will hopefully import new blood from Africa. But at this point hey I think we would all be happy to take any lions that can be bred more than once so we can enjoy cubs again. Probably will be another 10 years before we see cubs at the zoo based on the current prides ages.

Hopefully that all makes sense because I really need a good nights sleep so my brain can flicker back to life.
 
@TZFan @cypher Thank you both so much. I just hope with all of these phase outs, that they have suitable replacements. It's great to cut cost and all, but if you remove all the stars of your show, you lose much hope of growing the Zoo more.

I have to agree I see no sense in not investing more in the rhinos. Even the Clouded Leopards with their value on the endangered species front, would be great to even move to the pavilion.

Some background - I grew up in Barrie, going to the Toronto Zoo 4-6 times a year but now live in Halifax and obviously cannot go that often. I was just in ON for work and managed to sneak in a visit and I always turn to this forum when I need updates. :)
 
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@TZFan it's all good! honestly I do stuff like that so often when I don't get enough sleep lol

@Cowdoy1010 Last I heard the rhino exhibit was going to go to either something new (getting tapirs back would be nice but I'm suspecting it'll be revenge of the gaur) or a mixed exhibit with the babirusa and some other stuff. Obviously nothing could ever replace the rhinos but it's...an attempt? I guess? It's just weird that Indo is getting so much attention right now with the outdoor orangs but as soon as that's done so much is leaving it, reminds me a lot of how Tundra was so huge for the first few years but since then it's kinda withered away. Definitely wouldn't love Indo being reduced to just the pavilion and the tigers and giving that whole area over to rescue animals, that'd be a huge waste of premium real estate and there's a lot of other places in the zoo where that can go.

I'm torn on the lions, on one hand I love the current trio (especially Fintan, he's the most photogenic thing on the planet) and I'm glad they're sticking around for the rest of their lives but on the other hand I definitely miss having cubs. It's really weird they even decided to breed them considering that the cubs were almost certainly gonna cause problems and the zoo phased out white tigers ages ago for the same reason they're phasing out the white lions now but oh well, it all worked out in the end.
 
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Personally, I love the white lions and still remember their arrival in the early 2010's when the trio was just under a year old, It was lovely to see Makali raise those cubs and to see Fintan spar and wrestle them as well Lemon was a wonderful aunt. But sometimes I do think the Tawnies are a breeding SSP species and with a nice pride the zoo could potentially have a set of cubs every year or two, with Makali's litter it's hard to say if they boosted attendance numbers since they had the Panda Cubs, Juno (Polar bear Cub) and Nandu (Greater One-Horned Rhino). But with a bigger pride it will most likely draw in more visitors plus cubs if no big births happen in the same year, as well if it happens within the next 10 years we can say that the African Savanna will be in good hopes of lots of African species. Still a tough decision but I wouldn't mind Tawnies, I was always impressed with Lyndy and Jerroh and their father Rowdy and older brother Simba, Big males and I can only imagine they could've been bigger if they were full tawny, as in my point of view the Whites lion pride in general seems smaller when up to the glass, compared to the Tawnies. But that could just be me and I would love Tawnies again, but would miss the white pride.
 
I love the White Lions as much as everyone else, but I've always preferred the Tawny Lions. I wouldn't send our White Lion pride away, but once the Pride drops down to 2, I'd consider looking for a new Tawny Pride to ring in with the intention of breeding and adding to the SSP.
 
@hyena142, I could see a nice mix with babirusa included. We could get multiple female babirusa because they can live in groups. Move the gibbons there... well new gibbons because we all know Lenny and Holly are super old and wouldn't make the move. The indoor space would be bigger than what the gibbons currently have and theres decent vertical space for them. The moat would allow the zoo to bring in Asian small clawed otters. The otters and gibbons would be the star entertainers. And maybe bring back the tapir or some other larger but not huge animal. The outdoor exhibit could easily handle all of the species at once too. I can picture a big climbing structure for the gibbons. Fill the ditch in with a big moat to keep the gibbons in and entertain the otters and babirusa. Its almost too much space for them... unless they had other companions. Thats not considering the outdoor off exhibit holdings which themselves would be a lot of spare space.

I really do think they want it for exotic rescues. If we had to go that route I vote using the Discovery Zone and rescuing smaller exotics who are more likely to be unwanted pets. Just looking at it you can see how it could easily be converted for a pretty small budget. Although I really prefer the idea of the Discovery Zone being turned into a place where the zoo can showcase their Canadian conservation programs. Other than bison they are all smaller animals. If you needed to fill it up more rescue wild animals who cant be released back into the wild like injured owls.

Oops slid off into my compulsive need to take over the master plan again.

Ok looks like we are all in agreement. The white lions are great and we will enjoy them until they pass and then be happy meeting cubs with a brand new pride.

@Akula there is little chance even with imports we would be popping out cubs every 2 years. Odds are we get another pride with a single male and two females (usually sisters). I'd kill to go big and have two males (would have to be brothers). Could you imagine the majesty of two males? Each female would likely be allowed to have 2 litters. Most prides only get to have two litters per female because thats a lot of cubs to pass on the genetics. Its uncommon to have just a single cub litter. Most are 2-4. Multiply that by 4 litters. Sometimes if numbers are low a female might be allowed a 3rd litter, especially if the male she was with passes and she has a new male and is still young and valuable enough.

@Cowdoy1010, glad you can come here and still be part of the zoo from Halifax. I'm several hours away from Toronto so I know how great it is to live vicariously through the rest of the gang here. Everyone who can go is great about seeing what they can dig up if you have a question or might like a photo of someone or something. We can be far away but zoochat allows us to participate and still indulge in the zoo. Hope you will stick around, ask questions, spark conversations and share what you know. You clearly can ask questions that sets us all abuzz.
 
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