Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Births, Deaths and Transfers 2022
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ProjectGames
Well-Known Member
I have been waiting so long to finally get an update on Sekali's pregnancy. We are SO CLOSE, I'm excited! First baby since 2006!
Ok friends I have gorilla news and we probably wont like it but get it. Johari is slated to go to Milwaukee to join their new family group led by Oliver who funny enough is the son of Barney (Toronto's second male). Oliver is a decent genetic match and a proven breeder though its been years since he has bred. He is also unique in that he is deaf from birth. Kinda funny Johari is still ending up in Milwaukee. She was originally the one slated to go there not sister Shalia. Josephine was still so attached to her they decided to send motherless Shalia instead.
Kills me that we are loosing her. The genetics of the group would better served getting rid of the boys and splitting the family group in two. Charles could keep Ngozi and Charlie as social companions while Johari and Nneka form the base of a new family group with a young silverback and when Charles goes Ngozi sent away to eliminate the social problems with Johari. It would keep two different bloodlines in Toronto females. Loosing Johari means when Charles dies we need to do a total troop rebuild, keeping 1-2 from Ngozi's line and bringing in additional females as well as the male. Using Nassir would be impossible and if you try to keep Sadiki all of his sisters have to go. Its really a future nightmare to get the group rebuilt. Thank you border. I go get wanting to get Johari breeding and solve the social issues but my plan does set things up better long term.
Kills me that we are loosing her. The genetics of the group would better served getting rid of the boys and splitting the family group in two. Charles could keep Ngozi and Charlie as social companions while Johari and Nneka form the base of a new family group with a young silverback and when Charles goes Ngozi sent away to eliminate the social problems with Johari. It would keep two different bloodlines in Toronto females. Loosing Johari means when Charles dies we need to do a total troop rebuild, keeping 1-2 from Ngozi's line and bringing in additional females as well as the male. Using Nassir would be impossible and if you try to keep Sadiki all of his sisters have to go. Its really a future nightmare to get the group rebuilt. Thank you border. I go get wanting to get Johari breeding and solve the social issues but my plan does set things up better long term.
hyena142
Well-Known Member
I guess the tensions between Ngozi and Johari have reached a point where it just isn't possible to keep her on long term. I imagine they're worried that if Charles passes suddenly then she'll be completely defenseless against Ngozi and her kids bullying her and will be stuck with nowhere to go, so might as well get things going on a move right now. Of course thanks to our good buddy covid transferring animals over the border is still miserable so who knows how long she'll stay with us. Is there an ETA for when Milwaukee is starting up their new troop?
Really sucks she's leaving, I'll definitely miss her fashion sense, but if it's what's best for her then I'm all for it. I definitely wonder what a Johari-less plan for the troop after Charles looks like, because it felt obvious that the future was a new male with Johari, Ngozi and maybe one of her girls in the mix as breeders. With Johari gone I think them shipping out Ngozi's kids and installing Sadiki as the new silverback with Ngozi and one or two new females as his breeders could be the route we're headed in. I'm a huge Sadiki fan and I'd love nothing more than for the TZ's second silverback to be Charles's son so in my eyes that's the best ending but it'd be something of an odd choice considering they'd kinda have to move mountains to make it happen.
Really sucks she's leaving, I'll definitely miss her fashion sense, but if it's what's best for her then I'm all for it. I definitely wonder what a Johari-less plan for the troop after Charles looks like, because it felt obvious that the future was a new male with Johari, Ngozi and maybe one of her girls in the mix as breeders. With Johari gone I think them shipping out Ngozi's kids and installing Sadiki as the new silverback with Ngozi and one or two new females as his breeders could be the route we're headed in. I'm a huge Sadiki fan and I'd love nothing more than for the TZ's second silverback to be Charles's son so in my eyes that's the best ending but it'd be something of an odd choice considering they'd kinda have to move mountains to make it happen.
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ProjectGames
Well-Known Member
Well I wish Johari good luck once shes in her new home. But still, once Johari goes it will be killing the gorilla plans. Not only are we losing a funny member of the troop, but the plans will be a nightmare when Charles passes away, like @TZFan said. If we get Sadiki as the future silverback for this troop then we would have to send all our youngsters away (Nneka and Charlie) and of course our young male Nassir. Its gonna be a whole new rebuild for the gorillas. We'll probably gonna face some obstacles trying to rebuild the group, like getting new gorilla females.
These are just my guesses for the gorilla plans, though.
These are just my guesses for the gorilla plans, though.
@hyena142, Milwaukee's new groups is already up and running. Johari would be the final addition making it a group of four adults. Oliver moved with females Nadami and Dotty from Columbus late last year. They were in two different groups there initially. Johari will be the oldest female in the group but the girls will all be first time moms.
The problem with possibly installing Sadiki as silverback remains Nassir for now. He is far too young if Charles passed today for his brother to leave him. Nassir would not be considered to helm a troop until he is at least 16 years old. Thats still 4 years away and leaving him as a solo male that long would be highly undesirable. Plus I think its genetically redundant to breed Ngozi with Sadiki. She has 3 kids already by Charles. Why not mix it up and give her a different silverback with no relationship to Charles? Then any other offspring she has are more genetically varied and better for the population. The best solutions for a Johari free Toronto troop actually would be either Jawara or Zwalani at Granby. Technically they also have Louis and Kuchimba too but they are genetically so low they were really sent to Granby just to chill the rest of their lives only to be called on in an absolute pinch in Canada. Jawara is the preferable male. He is the 16th ranked male. He has an older full brother Ntondo at the Bronx who isnt being bred because he is blind and a younger full sister Barika at Sedgwick who is the only other offspring of Julia who could breed. Julia was our female and thus wild born with just 2 kids who can breed and currently just one grandchild. Jawara would give Toronto the best babies. Zwalani isnt too shabby either though Sadiki outranks him. Zwalani would work in a would without Johari as she is his aunt. His mother was our second baby Tabitha born to Josephine and Barney. He's lower ranking than his half brother Jawara because not only does Josephine have 3 grandkids by Jomo but his full brother Mbundi is a father of 3, plus his half brothers and sisters from dad Kakinga and then there are all of his aunts, uncles and cousins from grandad Barney. Sounds like he would be super low with that but hes still pretty high ranking. Sadiki while higher than Zwalani also has a lot of wiggle room on his ranking. Full sisters Shalia and Sekali are both recommended to breed soon as well as half sister Johari. Sekali's son Mosi coming up to the age where he will be a serious contender for a troop too given his excellent genetic background while her daughter Adelina will soon get the greenlight to breed as well. Ultimately his stock could drop a fair bit in the next 4 years while he's waiting on Nassir to mature. I would say unless Jawara and Zwalani are called up in the US before Charles dies they would be the two top contenders followed by Sadiki. I would rather see one of the Granby boys so Ngozi's future offspring are more genetically diverse. Both Jawara and Zwalani are impressive males.
With the border to consider one really has to look at things and think what moves will result in the least transfers across the border. Right now we know Johari is going so that's 1. There is no hope Nassir can stay in Canada unless Calgary looses Jasiri unexpectedly (he's very young so unlikely but given male gorillas tendency to die of heart conditions possible), thats 2. Unlikely you would keep Ngozi, Nneka and Charlie so 1-2 of them would need to go. There is 3-4. And you need a group of 3 females so whatever you send down you will need to bring replacements up. Now we are 4-6. We haven't considered silverbacks. Lets say you choose Jawara, Zwalani or Sadiki, the remaining 2 will be needed in the US given their high ranking genetics. There goes 6-8 gorillas across the border. Again I say my plan is cleaner and easier. Keep Johari and Nneka and Charlie. Ngozi, Nassir, Sadiki and Zwalani all have to go. Use Jawara in Toronto and thats 4 gorillas south with room for bachelor males born to Toronto or Calgary's troops in the coming years in Granby. You could move Nneka or Charlie south too later and replace them with different genetics to avoid bunching up Charles genes. Johari and Jawara would produce superior genetic offspring given how high ranking both are. But if anyone at the SSP ever listened to me before Charlie was even conceived I would have split the group and brought Jawara in and sent the boys to replace him in Granby and Johari would be on her second baby by now.
Strap in friends because I think we could be on a wild gorilla ride over the next several years. Part of me as horrible as it is to say kinda hopes things are decided for us and Charles goes. That would totally change the SSP and the zoo's perspective immediately. I think in that case they would consider sending Ngozi and Charlie off and using Johari and Nneka to form the base of the new group. You could still keep the boys until Nassir is ready. I love Charles to death and will sob like a baby when he goes but for the good of the troop at this point my beloved gorilla is a bigger obstacle then a benefit. I feel like garbage for thinking that way but I want to keep a piece of Josephine with us too down the line and the best shot at that is Johari. Ughh Ngozi why can't you just be nice to Johari so I dont have to hope for something that will devastate me to protect the future of gorillas at the zoo?
The problem with possibly installing Sadiki as silverback remains Nassir for now. He is far too young if Charles passed today for his brother to leave him. Nassir would not be considered to helm a troop until he is at least 16 years old. Thats still 4 years away and leaving him as a solo male that long would be highly undesirable. Plus I think its genetically redundant to breed Ngozi with Sadiki. She has 3 kids already by Charles. Why not mix it up and give her a different silverback with no relationship to Charles? Then any other offspring she has are more genetically varied and better for the population. The best solutions for a Johari free Toronto troop actually would be either Jawara or Zwalani at Granby. Technically they also have Louis and Kuchimba too but they are genetically so low they were really sent to Granby just to chill the rest of their lives only to be called on in an absolute pinch in Canada. Jawara is the preferable male. He is the 16th ranked male. He has an older full brother Ntondo at the Bronx who isnt being bred because he is blind and a younger full sister Barika at Sedgwick who is the only other offspring of Julia who could breed. Julia was our female and thus wild born with just 2 kids who can breed and currently just one grandchild. Jawara would give Toronto the best babies. Zwalani isnt too shabby either though Sadiki outranks him. Zwalani would work in a would without Johari as she is his aunt. His mother was our second baby Tabitha born to Josephine and Barney. He's lower ranking than his half brother Jawara because not only does Josephine have 3 grandkids by Jomo but his full brother Mbundi is a father of 3, plus his half brothers and sisters from dad Kakinga and then there are all of his aunts, uncles and cousins from grandad Barney. Sounds like he would be super low with that but hes still pretty high ranking. Sadiki while higher than Zwalani also has a lot of wiggle room on his ranking. Full sisters Shalia and Sekali are both recommended to breed soon as well as half sister Johari. Sekali's son Mosi coming up to the age where he will be a serious contender for a troop too given his excellent genetic background while her daughter Adelina will soon get the greenlight to breed as well. Ultimately his stock could drop a fair bit in the next 4 years while he's waiting on Nassir to mature. I would say unless Jawara and Zwalani are called up in the US before Charles dies they would be the two top contenders followed by Sadiki. I would rather see one of the Granby boys so Ngozi's future offspring are more genetically diverse. Both Jawara and Zwalani are impressive males.
With the border to consider one really has to look at things and think what moves will result in the least transfers across the border. Right now we know Johari is going so that's 1. There is no hope Nassir can stay in Canada unless Calgary looses Jasiri unexpectedly (he's very young so unlikely but given male gorillas tendency to die of heart conditions possible), thats 2. Unlikely you would keep Ngozi, Nneka and Charlie so 1-2 of them would need to go. There is 3-4. And you need a group of 3 females so whatever you send down you will need to bring replacements up. Now we are 4-6. We haven't considered silverbacks. Lets say you choose Jawara, Zwalani or Sadiki, the remaining 2 will be needed in the US given their high ranking genetics. There goes 6-8 gorillas across the border. Again I say my plan is cleaner and easier. Keep Johari and Nneka and Charlie. Ngozi, Nassir, Sadiki and Zwalani all have to go. Use Jawara in Toronto and thats 4 gorillas south with room for bachelor males born to Toronto or Calgary's troops in the coming years in Granby. You could move Nneka or Charlie south too later and replace them with different genetics to avoid bunching up Charles genes. Johari and Jawara would produce superior genetic offspring given how high ranking both are. But if anyone at the SSP ever listened to me before Charlie was even conceived I would have split the group and brought Jawara in and sent the boys to replace him in Granby and Johari would be on her second baby by now.
Strap in friends because I think we could be on a wild gorilla ride over the next several years. Part of me as horrible as it is to say kinda hopes things are decided for us and Charles goes. That would totally change the SSP and the zoo's perspective immediately. I think in that case they would consider sending Ngozi and Charlie off and using Johari and Nneka to form the base of the new group. You could still keep the boys until Nassir is ready. I love Charles to death and will sob like a baby when he goes but for the good of the troop at this point my beloved gorilla is a bigger obstacle then a benefit. I feel like garbage for thinking that way but I want to keep a piece of Josephine with us too down the line and the best shot at that is Johari. Ughh Ngozi why can't you just be nice to Johari so I dont have to hope for something that will devastate me to protect the future of gorillas at the zoo?
hyena142
Well-Known Member
Okay so they probably want the transfer to happen soon then to maximize breeding potential. Man we're only three months in and this year's already getting tough, Asha died, Adira's transfer is probably coming up and now they've confirmed Johari's leaving. Stop taking my girls 2022!
You're definitely right in that all of this depends on when Charles passes. If he lasts a good long while then Sadiki's chances rise dramatically because then we can hopefully send Nassir off to silverback somewhere else (and hopefully by then the border situation will be less chaotic). I definitely think the keepers want him if only because it means Charles and Sam's legacies get to live on in the TZ. If he goes sooner than that then I definitely think Jawara is our guy even if Johari's already gone by that point, he checks all the boxes. Even if Charles lasts long enough that we can make Sadiki happen I wouldn't be surprised if we still got Jawara, like you said Sadiki's close enough to Charles that a Sadiki/Ngozi pairing wouldn't really be worth much. Just hypothetically are there any females likely to be sent our way or is it too soon to call on that?
Honestly it feels weird even talking about this, pretty much all our childhoods revolved around Charles's troop and to think that they're starting to prep for the end just feels off in a way. Man Ngozi why you gotta be a jerk and ruin everything for everyone lol. Hopefully everything will work out in a way that makes the transition smooth for us hardcore fans and for the gorillas that do end up sticking around, I think at this point that's the most we can hope for.
You're definitely right in that all of this depends on when Charles passes. If he lasts a good long while then Sadiki's chances rise dramatically because then we can hopefully send Nassir off to silverback somewhere else (and hopefully by then the border situation will be less chaotic). I definitely think the keepers want him if only because it means Charles and Sam's legacies get to live on in the TZ. If he goes sooner than that then I definitely think Jawara is our guy even if Johari's already gone by that point, he checks all the boxes. Even if Charles lasts long enough that we can make Sadiki happen I wouldn't be surprised if we still got Jawara, like you said Sadiki's close enough to Charles that a Sadiki/Ngozi pairing wouldn't really be worth much. Just hypothetically are there any females likely to be sent our way or is it too soon to call on that?
Honestly it feels weird even talking about this, pretty much all our childhoods revolved around Charles's troop and to think that they're starting to prep for the end just feels off in a way. Man Ngozi why you gotta be a jerk and ruin everything for everyone lol. Hopefully everything will work out in a way that makes the transition smooth for us hardcore fans and for the gorillas that do end up sticking around, I think at this point that's the most we can hope for.
Honestly it just makes no sense to me to send Johari state side. I strongly agree with TZ fans notion of managing a group of Charles, Charlie and Ngozi, and a second of Jawara, Johari, and Nneka; and then sending the boys out. Its probably the easiest route over all.
Another option that hasn't been presented here, that would also be an excellent choice...sending Johari to Calgary. Johari is a very high ranking female, and Jasiri is an *extremely* high ranking male (until recently he was actually the #1 male in North America). This swanky little move solves a number of issues in one go. First off, I know the SSP likes 3 adult females to a male. This move would push Calgary up to 5 (plus rapidly maturing Kimani), but that's a totally manageable number for a fine silverback like Jasiri, and considering the genetic value of the pairing, very valuable babies. Or if they want to keep Calgary at a smaller number of females, they could send out Kioja with her daughter Kimani state side, while retaining the valuable core group of Jasairi + Zuri/Johari/Yewande. Of course there's Dossi and her unborn baby to consider as well. Honestly, considering their low genetic value, just send the four (Kioja, Kimani, Dossi, and baby) off to make a new group in the states for some lucky over-represented silverback stuck in a bachelor situation who would never get a chance to head up a group otherwise.
Assuming they keep all the girls, socially it should be fine. Dossi, while dominant, keeps to herself, only really associating with Kioja and Kimani. Kioja is a bit aloof, but socially an affable animal. Yewande and Kimani are young and playful, even kind of sh*theads, if you will, but they're not mean natured animals. They would likely be excellent playmates for Johari. And Zuri, bless her socially stunted soul, she's just doing the best she can. She really only associates with Yewande and mostly keeps to herself otherwise to avoid conflict.
Assuming they sent out the less valuable girls, it should still be an easy (probably the easiest) mix. Jasari is *extremely* laid back and easy going, although he still keeps a tight reign on his girls when needed. He's also the sort of strapping Silverback in his prime that seems to draw the females into behaving. Johari would likely fit in perfectly, as Zuri would more than likely just give her space, and Yewande would likely just try to be her new BFF.
Another option that hasn't been presented here, that would also be an excellent choice...sending Johari to Calgary. Johari is a very high ranking female, and Jasiri is an *extremely* high ranking male (until recently he was actually the #1 male in North America). This swanky little move solves a number of issues in one go. First off, I know the SSP likes 3 adult females to a male. This move would push Calgary up to 5 (plus rapidly maturing Kimani), but that's a totally manageable number for a fine silverback like Jasiri, and considering the genetic value of the pairing, very valuable babies. Or if they want to keep Calgary at a smaller number of females, they could send out Kioja with her daughter Kimani state side, while retaining the valuable core group of Jasairi + Zuri/Johari/Yewande. Of course there's Dossi and her unborn baby to consider as well. Honestly, considering their low genetic value, just send the four (Kioja, Kimani, Dossi, and baby) off to make a new group in the states for some lucky over-represented silverback stuck in a bachelor situation who would never get a chance to head up a group otherwise.
Assuming they keep all the girls, socially it should be fine. Dossi, while dominant, keeps to herself, only really associating with Kioja and Kimani. Kioja is a bit aloof, but socially an affable animal. Yewande and Kimani are young and playful, even kind of sh*theads, if you will, but they're not mean natured animals. They would likely be excellent playmates for Johari. And Zuri, bless her socially stunted soul, she's just doing the best she can. She really only associates with Yewande and mostly keeps to herself otherwise to avoid conflict.
Assuming they sent out the less valuable girls, it should still be an easy (probably the easiest) mix. Jasari is *extremely* laid back and easy going, although he still keeps a tight reign on his girls when needed. He's also the sort of strapping Silverback in his prime that seems to draw the females into behaving. Johari would likely fit in perfectly, as Zuri would more than likely just give her space, and Yewande would likely just try to be her new BFF.
@Hyak_II, Jasiri is not nor has he been the number 1 male in North America. That title belongs to Jim of Jacksonville and has for some time. I think where you have gone wrong was he was the number 1 ranked bachelor until his move to Calgary. Jasiri is highly ranked though and would be better than any other Canadian option, though to be fair its not much more then Jawara.
You do bring up a valid point though about mixing it up with Calgary. Right now they do sit at 4 adult females, an young Kimani and a baby to be determined imminently. While we have 2 adult females, and 2 young females. Right now there are 6 adult females in Canada which would bring both troops up to ideal strength and provide 3 youngsters for other possible combos. You could send Johari and Nneka to Calgary, thus solving the social issues with Ngozi and Johari and stripping Ngozi of her best ally in a power struggle with incoming females. Sure Charlie will back mom but shes no where near full grown. Nneka being nearly full grown does give Ngozi a partner in crime. In exchange, keeping in mind Jawara or Zwalani are the best fit for the future, maybe bring Kioja, Kimani and possibly Zuri. Kimani and Charlie are the same age roughly so they can be buddies. Kioja and Ngozi are both ready to breed so you start to set up a possible bachelor pair of they have boys. We know Kioja is a good match for Jawara and Zwalani as her former mate Kakinga's sons from a wild born mother and wild born grandparents respectively. No genetic connection other than to Kimani who can either return to Calgary or go to the US at adulthood. Charlie serves as the potential 3rd and keeps that connection to Charles the keepers are desperate for. Zuri gives the zoo options. Send the boys to Granby to mature and let Zuri serve as Charles companion until the end. She's socially awkward so the smaller pairing might help her. When he goes see if she fits into the group. Ngozi would be the only wild card in that mix because she has lived with Kioja, Kimani, Jawara and Zwalani just fine in the past. The only problem with Zuri is she is Zwalani's aunt but given her past as a questionable mom who knows if they would want to risk breeding her. Plus if she doesnt fit in they would need to rehome her anyway. You could swap Dossi for Kioja but with a new baby shes not ideal and Yewande cant be brought in to breed with her brothers. All this internal swapping would be a better option because the only one who has to go to the US in that case in the near future is Zwalani or Jawara. While they have integrated with Louis and Kuchimba I dont think Granby could handle 5 silverbacks. 4 might be there limit. Besides don't leave a genetically valuable age appropriate silverback languishing if you dont have to.
You do bring up a valid point though about mixing it up with Calgary. Right now they do sit at 4 adult females, an young Kimani and a baby to be determined imminently. While we have 2 adult females, and 2 young females. Right now there are 6 adult females in Canada which would bring both troops up to ideal strength and provide 3 youngsters for other possible combos. You could send Johari and Nneka to Calgary, thus solving the social issues with Ngozi and Johari and stripping Ngozi of her best ally in a power struggle with incoming females. Sure Charlie will back mom but shes no where near full grown. Nneka being nearly full grown does give Ngozi a partner in crime. In exchange, keeping in mind Jawara or Zwalani are the best fit for the future, maybe bring Kioja, Kimani and possibly Zuri. Kimani and Charlie are the same age roughly so they can be buddies. Kioja and Ngozi are both ready to breed so you start to set up a possible bachelor pair of they have boys. We know Kioja is a good match for Jawara and Zwalani as her former mate Kakinga's sons from a wild born mother and wild born grandparents respectively. No genetic connection other than to Kimani who can either return to Calgary or go to the US at adulthood. Charlie serves as the potential 3rd and keeps that connection to Charles the keepers are desperate for. Zuri gives the zoo options. Send the boys to Granby to mature and let Zuri serve as Charles companion until the end. She's socially awkward so the smaller pairing might help her. When he goes see if she fits into the group. Ngozi would be the only wild card in that mix because she has lived with Kioja, Kimani, Jawara and Zwalani just fine in the past. The only problem with Zuri is she is Zwalani's aunt but given her past as a questionable mom who knows if they would want to risk breeding her. Plus if she doesnt fit in they would need to rehome her anyway. You could swap Dossi for Kioja but with a new baby shes not ideal and Yewande cant be brought in to breed with her brothers. All this internal swapping would be a better option because the only one who has to go to the US in that case in the near future is Zwalani or Jawara. While they have integrated with Louis and Kuchimba I dont think Granby could handle 5 silverbacks. 4 might be there limit. Besides don't leave a genetically valuable age appropriate silverback languishing if you dont have to.
Jefferson
Well-Known Member
She looks so natural with the baby! Looks like everything went smoothly. Also very cool that according to the zoo instagram post, the keepers training paid off and she brought baby over to show the keepers just a few hours after he was born.
Seems like 2022 is a year of boys between the orangutan, giraffe and 2/3 cheetahs.
Seems like 2022 is a year of boys between the orangutan, giraffe and 2/3 cheetahs.
ProjectGames
Well-Known Member
YES finally!
Do any of you know if they're going to take the baby around the show the orangs their new addition? I think Puppe would love to see her grandson, as she loves human babies but I think she would love this new addition.
Do any of you know if they're going to take the baby around the show the orangs their new addition? I think Puppe would love to see her grandson, as she loves human babies but I think she would love this new addition.
hyena142
Well-Known Member
@ProjectGames As nice a thought as that is it won't happen unfortunately. Since the orangs aren't social like the gorillas are there isn't really any point to introducing the others to a baby they'll realistically probably never go on exhibit with, plus it might cause Sekali and baby some stress and we definitely don't want that. Budi will probably get to meet his son someday though
ProjectGames
Well-Known Member
The baby is a boy but I'll take it. I'd more like it to be a girl because not only we can see them with their mother longer than males do, but we'll also get new females for the future. I'll definitely want to see them on exhibit soon!
Glad he's here safe and sound. Do wish he was a girl though. We need girls more than boys if we want to keep a larger group of orangs in the future, otherwise we will do what most other zoos do and just have a male, female and young. I like that we have multiple females and their young. Was really hoping Budi would give us two girls to set the zoo up well for more breeding in 14 years because Sekali might have one more and Ramai is done after she has one with Budi sometime between now and the next 5 years when she will be too old to breed. Maybe we will get lucky and the keepers will be mistaken but if they announced it they must be pretty darn sure. No one likes to look the fool about gender. Remember when the Chinese thought giant panda Er Shun would be our male and oops nope he turned into our female and then we got Da Mao instead? Kinda a big oops.
ProjectGames
Well-Known Member
I've read articles on this new addition and I realized that "13 orangs have been raised at the zoo since 1974" might be a mistake and there was more than that.
Orangs that were born at the zoo:
Chantek, Santan, Mias ll, Cherdek, Juara, Ramai, Dinar, Kartiko, Kira, Sekali, Jahe, Budi, Kembali, Jingga, and the new addition.
Yeah, 15 orangs have been raised at the zoo, so it might've been a small mistake.
Orangs that were born at the zoo:
Chantek, Santan, Mias ll, Cherdek, Juara, Ramai, Dinar, Kartiko, Kira, Sekali, Jahe, Budi, Kembali, Jingga, and the new addition.
Yeah, 15 orangs have been raised at the zoo, so it might've been a small mistake.
The keyword here would be raised, Cherdek was born at the zoo but he passed away when he was just a few months old and I wouldn't really say he was raised at the zoo. Kartiko also passed away at the zoo but he was around 8 years old when he passed. I would assume the zoo excluded him as well since he passed away at the zoo before reaching maturity.
The remaining 13 are either still alive or were transferred out of the zoo and ended up passing away as an adult.
ProjectGames
Well-Known Member
Oh I oopsied, I probably should've looked that over again.
@TZFan if the baby ended up being a male, does he most likely have to go for the future? I know if we get a female it would probably be the future breeding female. I don't know if Sekali's baby boy would be the breeding male for the future but if hes not he would have to go.
@TZFan if the baby ended up being a male, does he most likely have to go for the future? I know if we get a female it would probably be the future breeding female. I don't know if Sekali's baby boy would be the breeding male for the future but if hes not he would have to go.
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