Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo- Births, Deaths, Arrivals and Departures 2014

I would guess just the two, Kilat and Kiki. With one less dragon they will both get a lot more exhibit time which is good for both. Might help encourage them to breed.
 
Went to the zoo today. Not much to report, except that the Construction by the lions (stairs) is complete. They're much easier to walk on now.
 
Well it is pretty good that another project is complete even if it is a minor one.

I checked out the stuff for the next board meeting and most of it isnt note worthy. Theres stuff relating to an audit they had done. Some more stuff on how they will work to attract more schools. There's a report on their environmental innitiatives.

The one thing that stood out, it was called Zoo Accreditiation. Unfortunately there wasnt anything attached so I dont know what its all about. Might be renewing with the CAZA which the zoo could be due for. Could be that they are looking to reapply to the AZA which would be great. Unfortunately with that the zoo hasnt solved the issue that got our membership revoked, stupid city, so I dont know if it would be that. It might be something else like an OSPCA inspection. Maybe more will be added after the meeting June 5.

I must say this is the most boring set of documents I have seen so far. Usually there is something animal related.

TMMIS - Committees
 
More documents have been put up for the board meeting. They are reapplying for the CAZA and would like to reapply to the AZA but the city needs to agree the zoo makes animal decisions.

The effects of non accrediation are laid out...

Theres public perception that not being accedited means its basically a road side zoo.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service wont deal with non AZA zoos which will hurt a number of programs we belong to included the black footed ferrets.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency will not issue permits or allow particpation in conservation programs if the CAZA wont take the zoo.

AZA zoos have refused to send their animals recommended to come in an SSP. We cant get more giraffes until something is done!

The AZA could recall all 380 animals on loan destroying our breeding programs.

AZA zoos could send back 239 animals on loan because they wont recieve recommendations because they dont belong to the AZA.

They could lose nearly $70 000 in funding for conservation programs that the AZA and CAZA fund.

The staff wont be allowed to participate in various AZA programs, make recommendations and serve on SSPs and TAGs. They wont be able to speak for the zoo the way the currently are if we dont get reaccredited this year.

Because we arent accredited the SSPs and TAGs are refusing to let animals out or into our zoo.

Other zoos are demanding more paperwork or delaying or refusing transfers. We apparently had a problem like that recently with the white rhinos. Probably why we dont have clouded leopards too but thats just me guessing.

The zoo has to be investigated in depth just to send animals out.

Theres impacts on the availablity and costs of training programs for the staff.

The staff is being excluded from research opporunties and programs, conferences and other things where they can learn to better things for the animals.

Its been getting worse and worse for the zoo as time has passed since losing the 2012 AZA accreditation and almost losing the CAZA at the same time.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/zb/bgrd/backgroundfile-70032.pdf

Theres also a document on getting AZA accredited again and all the things they are looking for to reapply.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/zb/bgrd/backgroundfile-70033.pdf

I really hope the city will do the right thing for the zoo and agree the zoo should make animal decisions. There isnt any high profile animals to attack right now. The activists can go bug Granby, Parc Safari and Valley Zoo about their elephants or if they really care about animals bash the crap out of Marineland.
 
More documents have been put up for the board meeting. They are reapplying for the CAZA and would like to reapply to the AZA but the city needs to agree the zoo makes animal decisions.

The effects of non accrediation are laid out...

Theres public perception that not being accedited means its basically a road side zoo.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service wont deal with non AZA zoos which will hurt a number of programs we belong to included the black footed ferrets.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency will not issue permits or allow particpation in conservation programs if the CAZA wont take the zoo.

AZA zoos have refused to send their animals recommended to come in an SSP. We cant get more giraffes until something is done!

The AZA could recall all 380 animals on loan destroying our breeding programs.

AZA zoos could send back 239 animals on loan because they wont recieve recommendations because they dont belong to the AZA.

They could lose nearly $70 000 in funding for conservation programs that the AZA and CAZA fund.

The staff wont be allowed to participate in various AZA programs, make recommendations and serve on SSPs and TAGs. They wont be able to speak for the zoo the way the currently are if we dont get reaccredited this year.

Because we arent accredited the SSPs and TAGs are refusing to let animals out or into our zoo.

Other zoos are demanding more paperwork or delaying or refusing transfers. We apparently had a problem like that recently with the white rhinos. Probably why we dont have clouded leopards too but thats just me guessing.

The zoo has to be investigated in depth just to send animals out.

Theres impacts on the availablity and costs of training programs for the staff.

The staff is being excluded from research opporunties and programs, conferences and other things where they can learn to better things for the animals.

Its been getting worse and worse for the zoo as time has passed since losing the 2012 AZA accreditation and almost losing the CAZA at the same time.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/zb/bgrd/backgroundfile-70032.pdf

Theres also a document on getting AZA accredited again and all the things they are looking for to reapply.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/zb/bgrd/backgroundfile-70033.pdf

I really hope the city will do the right thing for the zoo and agree the zoo should make animal decisions. There isnt any high profile animals to attack right now. The activists can go bug Granby, Parc Safari and Valley Zoo about their elephants or if they really care about animals bash the crap out of Marineland.

I think you can kiss the sky goodbye ... ;) :mad:!!! The politico-apparatsjiks are nitwits - bureacrats and should stay away from any zoo matters forthwith (that is to say they should never have meddled in in the first place).

Council should run municipal affairs, not zoo management or its individual program or husbandry decisions. Perhaps the best would be for TZ to become a Zoo Society instead plus a handsome pay-off by city magistrate / councillors to bring the zoo back in line for progress till 2020.

Good luck up in Toronto!
 
So basically, the government is standing in the way of the Zoo progressing. Typical politics.
 
Oh dont get me started on the baffoons that run Toronto. You know they cant get things right when they have a crack smoking mayor and no one seems to mind! But thats another story.

They never should have stuck their big fat noses in when it came to the elephants. The city pays a lot of professional experts at the zoo to handle these kinds of things. If they cant trust them to do the job they are employed to do in conjunction with the SSP experts then what the heck are they employing them for? Its their job to manage the animals and everything connected with them so let them. Council should have better things to do with their time then meddle in the zoos animal welfare decisions and if they dont then they should really be taking a closer look at how they are running the city. If the zoo was being mismanaged then yes step in and find the right person to fix things but it was all running beautifully.

Hopefully the city does the right thing and agrees to stay out of animal decisions. If they cant do that the city might as well shut the zoo down. If the zoo doesnt rejoin the AZA the zoo will be pretty much screwed because the two year grace period with them is over this year. With all that can and will happen without the AZA there will be little point in running the zoo. The collection will suffer. Especially if we lose the CAZA over this too, which we nearly did in 2012. Why fund a zoo that cant do research, cant breed due to a lack of space and animals and cant participate in conservation projects? But maybe thats the aim of city council. Drive the zoo into the ground so they can close it, save the money and sell the land and animals. One has to wonder when these same geniuses tried to force the zoo to have an animal advisory panel that includes anti zoo groups.

The zoo did try to suggest to the city to let it slowly become an independant body. The city's had a number cruncher look at the proposal and they shot them down claiming it was unfeasible. I still cannot figure out why they didnt let them at least try. Best case scenario was that the zoo would be independant in 20-25 years and out of the city's pocket completely. Worst case scenario is they fail to achieve the financial stabiltiy necessary and come back into the fold having learned how to finance itself better thus reducing its dependance on the city for funds.

Oh how I hope we can get back into the AZA. If the zoo can just convince the city to stay out I dont think they will have much trouble getting back in. It wasnt animal welfare or poor infustructure that got the zoo kicked out. It was all the city's decision to flex its muscle as owner to send the elephants away against the recommendations of the staff. If we get back in I bet we will see a flurry of animal transfers in and out as fellow zoos follow through on all of those recommendations they have been igoring.
 
I agree with everything TZFan said. The toronto zoo should be allowed to make its own decisions. We all just need to hope that everything will work out because the zoo could be in a lot of trouble if it doesn't.

I do wonder though about what species of animals the zoo would have to send away and what species would come back.
 
Yeah, I also wonder what animals the zoo would have to send away and take back.
 
Well I just think of the animals who recently arrived as going back. Theres a chance China could strip us of the pandas.

We would lose the tigers. Kemala to LA and Hari to San Diego.

Likely the babirusas. Though maybe Muna legally belongs to us because she is born here but that depends on the deal.

Hyenas Pinduli belongs to Denver and Moja belongs to UC Berkley. But theres a good chance ownership has been given to us on at least Moja and probably Pinduli.

Giraffe calf, Mstari could belong to Clevaland.

Zebra Shani belongs to the Bronx so she could go along with Tori (who could belong to Toront as birth place, the Bronz as mothers owner or Lincoln Park as fathers owner) and one or both of the foals. could go leaving us Jake who belongs to Mountain View Conservation and Breeding center but they are getting out of exotics so he could be ours.

Theres a good chance one or two of the younger orangs would have to go to Zoo Atlanta, Molek's former home.

Lion Tailed Macaque, Screamer would go back to Baltimore. Not that an older female who has never reproduced is a loss.

Indian Rhino Asha would go back to Buffalo. We could keep Vishnu though because he is legally ours despite being born in the Bronx. His dad was Vinu was ours on loan so half the offpring were ours.

Speaking of Rhinos we would lose all 4 white rhinos. The girls to Busch Gardens, Tony to White Oaks and Tom to I cant remember where.

All of the penguins except some of the ones born here.

African Otter Lila would go home to San Deigo.

Red River Hogs... Casey to Cincinnati and Philip to Oklahoma.

Possibly all of the meerkats becuase they werent born here.

Both Wattled Cranes.

Many of our spider monkeys as Wally and Julie arent legally the zoos. We would probably keep a couple.

Most of our Capybaras. A couple probably belong to us.

Saki Madeira would go back to San Deigo.

Wombat Matilba would go back to Brookfield.

Both Tree Kangaroos would be gone.

The new Victoria Crowned pigeons likely gone.

The new feathertailed gliders gone.

Possibly several of the Przewalkski's.

The new Stellar's Sea Eagles.

Both Snow Leopards.

Wartog Lucy would be going back to Atlanta as would at least one of the babies.

All but a couple of the young lemurs.

And all that is without me removing birds, reptiles, amphibians or anything belonging to a Canadian Zoo.

Our only saving grace if they sent back our animals is that we imported and bought a lot of orginal animals who have descendants all over the place and some of them legally belong to the zoo. Coming back. Toronto legally owns a number of gorillas, orangs, rhinos both species, giraffes, zebras, snow leopards, tigers both species, warthogs, and Im sure much more.

That's just stuff off the top of my head.
 
The activists can go bug Granby, Parc Safari and Valley Zoo about their elephants or if they really care about animals bash the crap out of Marineland.

Just because Toronto is your favorite doesn't mean activists should just leave it alone and go bother other zoos.

The first three you listed are all respected CAZA institutions that deserve no more flack than they already receive, and as for Marineland, although they weren't the best in the past, they are still CAZA registered and maintain the worlds largest and most successful Beluga breeding program. Honestly the amount of criticism over that place is ridiculous, the last thing they need is more activists pissing around at their gates.

Not saying that Toronto deserves any activists up their ass (cause they don't, especially with the elephants gone), just still, it wouldn't be fair for them to just shift to bothering other zoo's ;)
 
Sorry Hyak II, I was just being flip... with the exception of Marineland. I really dont think the zoos deserve it either. There are probably a ton of roadside zoos they would be better taking aim at which aren't even trying to meet the animals needs or people who shouldnt have exotic "pets". Marineland though is another discussion I dont want to get into.

After years of constant bashing the zoo could use a break. Thankfully I dont think the zoo has any animals right now that are hot targets of the anti zoo community the way elephants and whales and dolphins are.

While I was being flip, I would never wish that good for nothing game show host and his cronies on another zoo, again Marineland is a different matter in my mind.
 
I really hope that the zoo gets it's AZA accreditation back, if not as pointed out above, we'd be at risk of losing too many of our current, amazing animals. If anyone on the city counsel had had any sort of mind or cared about the real well being of the elephants they would have known that while being at an elephant sanctuary may be nice for the elephants, it caused way more grief for the zoo than any activist! The amount of stress that a move that big could've possibly had on the elephants wasn't with the risk, to me personally anyways. It also cost the zoo it's AZA accreditation which as pointed out could strip the zoo of it's animals and in turn would also lower the zoos attendance numbers pretty much screwing the zoo over entirely in every aspect.
 
I hate to be fair to city council... more than words can express... but I dont think they really thought the AZA would go through with their threats to banish the zoo. The AZA had threatened it in the past over controversial elephant moves but never followed through. But if I remember right those threats were over zoo based decisions not a city stepping in and making the call in direct opposition to the zoo. The council probably thought the AZA was just blowing more smoke and tried calling their bluff. Unfortunately for the zoo it was no bluff and a genuine threat. And the AZA was right to yank membership if the zoo isnt incharge of the animals. The zoo was lucky the AZA didnt through its weight around harder because the zoo could have been facing the problems it is now back in 2012. They were nice enough to give the zoo two years to get its affairs in order. But I dont think the city council ever thought it would get this far along unless their plan is to kill the zoo.
 
So a question.

Why was Toronto forced to give the elephants up to a sanctuary ? I know a bit on the matter but not the full story. Why couldn't they have, once it was decided the elephants were moving, up and said "OK they're off to this AZA zoo in the states, up yours Zoocheck, us and AZA are all good, activists go away now", as opposed to all the BS that has gone on in the past while ?
 
Oh you dont know the story. To give it quickly... the zoo looked into the costs of upgrading for northern elephants and all involved in keeping them so far north and it wasnt the best decision for the girls or the zoo. The zoo recommended the program be ended, fair enough. Then that miserable game show host and his cronies said they would pay for the move to PAWS all the while making the zoo out to be monsters. The staff was close to a deal to send them to the brand spanking new National Elephant Conservation Center in Florida... Look it up I would love to live there if I were an elephant. Plus they would have been part of a multi generational herd... Anyway that SOB and his minions (I refuse to utter his name) some how convinced city council... I think he lined their pockets... no one can convince me otherwise... and the city which owns the zoo said we own the animals the elephants go to PAWS. The AZA said thats not how animal welfare should be decided your out. The keepers, vets and other staff fought for 18 months to have the right to send them to them to a place of their choosing because they didnt like PAWS. Ultimately they lost. You are right though I wish the city had backed the zoo and its expert staff and said up yours they go where the zoo wants. I totally blame the white haired devil, his anti zoo baffoons and the corrupt politicians who he bought.
 
Oh you dont know the story. To give it quickly... the zoo looked into the costs of upgrading for northern elephants and all involved in keeping them so far north and it wasnt the best decision for the girls or the zoo. The zoo recommended the program be ended, fair enough. Then that miserable game show host and his cronies said they would pay for the move to PAWS all the while making the zoo out to be monsters. The staff was close to a deal to send them to the brand spanking new National Elephant Conservation Center in Florida... Look it up I would love to live there if I were an elephant. Plus they would have been part of a multi generational herd... Anyway that SOB and his minions (I refuse to utter his name) some how convinced city council... I think he lined their pockets... no one can convince me otherwise... and the city which owns the zoo said we own the animals the elephants go to PAWS. The AZA said thats not how animal welfare should be decided your out. The keepers, vets and other staff fought for 18 months to have the right to send them to them to a place of their choosing because they didnt like PAWS. Ultimately they lost. You are right though I wish the city had backed the zoo and its expert staff and said up yours they go where the zoo wants. I totally blame the white haired devil, his anti zoo baffoons and the corrupt politicians who he bought.

Greatest description for the elephant fiasco that I've ever seen. I've talked to other people that also found the situation to be odd, hence the belief of money exchanges under the table.
 
Wow thanks for the compliment Cypher. I thought I was a little on the long side and perhaps too mean to the sorry piece of leather from California... Nah I can never be mean enough to him.

I cannot for the life of me figure out any other way then bribery that pretty much the whole of city council voted against the zoo. Sure paying for the move would have been costly wherever they went in the AZA and he was offering a free option but that didnt sway everyone. They could have used the food budget for the elephants, employee reduction savings, Im sure there was money set aside which could have helped pay for it. Plus Im sure the recieving institution would have paid some of the expenses if not all of them to get the girls. Why pay experts if you are just going to ignore them? Answer your getting paid to ignore them.

I wish I had thought of it sooner but we should have fought that... hmm cant come up with a new insult... I liked white haired devil... with the white haired angle, friend of the animals Betty White. Man if we could have got that sweet, gentle soul to fight her nemisis (and they are that over the LA zoo) the zoo would have had a formidable defender people just love to pieces. She would have loved to stick it to him and pay to send the girls where the zoo wanted and she wouldnt have had to buy city council to win them over. Her sweet nature would have done that.
 
Had some free time, so I went to the zoo today.

- Keepers are continuing to do daily pouch checks with the Tree Kangaroos, although they don't think they'll know for sure for another 20 days or so.

- They are still looking for somewhere to put the Bettongs since they weren't getting along with the Tree Kangaroos. Harrington chased them around all night, creating a stressful living environment.

- Feathertail Gliders are now on exhibit. They have not replaced Sugar Gliders, as they are still on exhibit. The Feathertail Gliders are in the old Frilled Lizard exhibit, with the lights off, as they're nocturnal animals. I'll post pictures of their exhibit and the animal itself later today, hopefully.

- Lemurs were pretty active, and I'm hoping to post some pictures of the twins later.

- Southern Ground hornbill's were more active then I've ever seen them. One had a dead mouse in it's mouth while the others chased him around.

- What was most surprising was the Zebra. All 5 Zebra were out in the field together, and not in a good way. Don't remember their names so bear with me. Adult male was chasing the mothers trying to mate with them. Mother's and calves were constantly on the run avoiding the adult male. Mother's were having none of it, even trying to kick him in the head, which they managed a couple times. So not only was the adult male at risk of serious injury (seriously, you could hear the smacks echo as he was kicked), the calves looked completely exhausted running around with their Mothers. They were literally wheezing when they stopped running around. The whole situation seemed bad.

- Both Sumatran Tiger were off exhibit, as their exhibits were under construction. The den visible from the Indo-Malaya Pavilion has been taken apart. They are also spraying the exhibits with the pesticide "Roundup" to get rid of Poison Ivy. Don't worry, It's a safe pesticide for humans and animals.

- Grass has been laid down in the soon to be new Giraffe exhibit.

- No Penguins were out of exhibit.

- All Arctic Foxes are on exhibit again, getting along with each other.
 
- What was most surprising was the Zebra. All 5 Zebra were out in the field together, and not in a good way. Don't remember their names so bear with me. Adult male was chasing the mothers trying to mate with them. Mother's and calves were constantly on the run avoiding the adult male. Mother's were having none of it, even trying to kick him in the head, which they managed a couple times. So not only was the adult male at risk of serious injury (seriously, you could hear the smacks echo as he was kicked), the calves looked completely exhausted running around with their Mothers. They were literally wheezing when they stopped running around. The whole situation seemed bad.

Jake, the male, has only just been re-introduced to the other 4. There was a Volunteer observing them when I went by the other day and apparently keepers are taking shifts watching them too when a Volunteer is not available. All was calm when I saw them together, but male zebras usually only have one thing on their mind, so its not suprising he was trying to breed the 2 adult females. Hopefully everything will settle down in the next little while, otherwise I would imagine Jake will be separated from the group again.
 
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