Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo - Developments 2016

I would again agree with you cypher. The orangs need to be top priority. It's been so long discussed and eagerly awaited. The outdoor exhibit would be first on my list. I would love to see them over a moat but reality is the exhibit is supposed to fit in the gaur yard. I just don't see the exhibit having the space for an effective moat. I'm okay with netting but I will hope for several large windows along the lines of the baboon exhibit. Glass can be tricky for photographers too but it will allow the orangs to come right up to people and that's the experience that creates life long zoo lovers. However if we are going to build them an outdoor exhibit I don't agree that the Canadian Wilderness should be next. While construction is happening there and people could see them outside a pavilion reno would be fantastic next. Bring Indo Malaya up to par with the African Pavilion. I want to see an indoor orang exhibit that is as beautiful as the gorilla exhibit. Plus I just hate all that concrete. Make it look natural or at least more natural. Now if they could run a side project to that it would need to be a smaller project like a reno of the rhino house or maybe the gorilla outdoor but if it cannot be done then they could wait to be tucked in elsewhere. After Indo Malaya I would prefer to go with the hippos personally because I want to see them year round but reality is the Domain is in worse shape so the Canadian Wilderness would get attention next. Then I'm torn. I want the hippos but realistically once you remove all of the North American animals from the Americas pavilion it becomes pretty empty... think about all the empty reptile exhibits, the beaver and otters, and probably the gators. Just seems like it will be sort of begging for help. I would probably go with the conversion of the Americas to Tropical America and hopefully that would include expanding or improving the temple. Round out the northern development plan and then turn back to the hippos who at that point could kick start a partial rebirth of the savanna. Kills me to leave the hippos for last but they are by far the most expensive project and it would be a single species focus or nearly so. The master plan will give us a better idea of the future though. Its due in June.

More on the plans to keep the cubs. Still hoping the Chinese say no or the zoo does. Oddly enough I was watching the zoo's CEO talking to CTV at lunch time and he was very stand offish about that question. Kind of said well we need to see if the numbers work for us or if five years is enough.

Push to keep panda cubs in Toronto longer | Toronto & GTA | News | Toronto Sun

Coun. Mammoliti wants panda cubs to extend stay in Toronto - Toronto - CBC News

Another thought about keeping the cubs. Even if the zoo decides to keep them forever like the US zoos have, keeping the twins makes no sense. When they reach maturity they cannot breed with each other. Which twin do you keep? The zoo doesn't have space for 4 adult pandas and cubs. Nor would it want the cost burden of so many. And remember Da Mao at 5 was still not mature enough to breed with Er Shun so are we going to foot the bill for two pandas to mature and one to move on? Or both move on? No US zoo keeps it's cubs although they do keep the parents. Honestly if the zoo wants to keep pandas it should be fighting to keep Da Mao and Er Shun in the hopes of more panda cubs in the coming years. Calgary could easily be assigned a different breeding pair.

The eland males have arrived from Parc Safari. They have cleared quarantine and the plan is still to put them on display with or next to the giraffe. It depends on how they get along as to whether they live together or apart. The weather, yard conditions and interactions with the giraffes will dictate when they go on display.
 
I was wondering as to where they were planning on putting the outdoor orangutang exhibit. A moat would be best for viewing as you mentioned TZ fan. They could possibly if the exhibit is kept relativley the same as it is now and just build a higher wall in the back and have a semi-circle moat for the front. And then make it orang-friendly. Wouldn't it be awesome to be in charge of the zoo exhibits. Where will the gaur go? I to would also love to see the hippo exhibit be re-desighned, hopefully including a under ground pool viewing area. You lost me on the Americas pavilion, why are animals being moved from there?
 
The gaur will be leaving the zoo when construction begins. They wont be returning. They have been considered phase out for awhile now. It's why when male Hercules died a few years ago a new breeding bull was not brought in. Forrest was allowed to stay with his mother and sister but I think he has been castrated.

Sorry to have lost you on the Americas. When the Canadian Wilderness is built all North American stock is to be moved there. The wilderness is to be located from the dhole and Barbary ape exhibits through to Tundra Trek. The old wisent exhibit will be expanded to a drive through with bison and elk. The eagles, cougars, lynx will probably span where the old snow leopard exhibit sat to the dholes. The moose and grizzlies will take up space around the barbary ape exhibits. Then closer to the entance to Eurasia from some rendering I have seen it looks like a small pavilion will be built that will house probably underwater viewing of the otters and beavers with a nearby raccoon exhibit. There should be space in there as well to house the snakes, lizards, turtles, amphibians and birds from the Americas that can be found in North America. That would leave the Americas pavilion sort of empty. Just think about all of the North American animals in there. Beaver, otter, turtles, snakes, lizards, gators, gar and other fish, shrikes, great horned owls, barn owls, ferrets (well one ferret), some of the bugs. I'm sure I'm forgetting some. It would be about half of the pavilion empty. At that point it needs a reno and the plan is for it to be converted to a Tropical Americas. I just hope the Mayan Temple is included in that plan and more exhibits are built there as well... but realistically that's probably just a dream.

Oh the one hand it would be fun to have power over exhibits. If you want to see how nuts I can go if I give myself unlimited funds find my thread on rebuilding the zoo with unlimited funds. Did it twice and once I was only a little overboard. The second go I went right off the deep end. Didn't even try to be realistic. Probably built a multi billion dollar zoo that could never be maintained by Toronto's populace. Oh fun times. However if we were being realistic about being in charge of exhibits for the zoo it would probably be extremely frustrating. You can have fantastic ideas but you need the funds to make those dreams a reality. It's a constant game of compromises. What do you give up here to do things there? With Tundra Trek for example there were plans for wolverines but they had to be scrapped due to budget constraints. They kept them in until the compromises were enough that it just wasn't feasible anymore to keep the exhibit without compromising too much on all of the other exhibits. I don't know that I would want to preform that balancing act. I think at the end of the day no one would be totally happy with me including myself. But if you are interested in seeing how far my mind... and Arcticwolf's can go when given unlimited funds our thread on rebuilding the zoo can be an interesting read. Some of our ideas were pretty cool.
 
On a separate not. My brother went to the zoo today. He said the Clouded Leopards were on exhibit with each other.
 
Ah that makes sense to me now. Any idea on where the gaurs are going? what happens to animals that are a "phase out"?. Well it looks like i have some reading to do tonight @Tzfan.
 
I do not think a new home has been selected for the gaurs. Until the zoo has the funds and plans to begin construction on the new exhibit there is no urgent need to find a home. They will probably look for a home several months before construction begins. If it does take time the zoo does have exhibits in the domain or the old wisent exhibit that could serve as a temporary home while a new home is found.

Phase out is a term that means ultimately the zoo is planning on getting rid of a species. Now there are several reasons they might phase out. First is the zoo just doesn't want them any more for a number of reasons (gaur). Second is that they are hard to get (dhole, tawny frogmouth). Third would be that the AZA isn't supporting a breeding program for the species anymore (chamois, olive baboons, European mouflon, tahr, Barbary sheep). Fourth would be a health issue (Barbary apes are carriers of something). There are other reasons but those are the main ones. Now once a species is on phase out the zoo has a two main options. First is to transfer the animals out to other zoos which will happen in the gaurs case or what happened with tapir, Tanuck. The second option, which is being done with all of the others I mentioned, is that all breeding is stopped and the animals the zoo cannot ship out or wont simply live out their lives at the zoo. When the last of the species dies the phase out is complete. It can take years depending on the species and age of the existing animals. The Barbary apes have been on phase out for quite a while and are now down to two elderly animals. The younger animals were moved to another zoo. Zoo's are constantly changing what they keep so just as some animals go on phase out... others become phase in species though that term is usually used for a whole species being phased into the AZA breeding programs. I don't think the zoo has anything phase in.
 
Wow... So much goes into a zoo, It's amazing! I really do miss Tanuck! I hope one day we gat tapirs back they are such interesting looking creatures.
 
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TZfan: has there been any mention of what they will do with the exhibit space once the phase out of the olive baboons is complete? Or is that too far off in the distance.

On a different note, was at the zoo today, a few observations:
The members preview for the panda cubs seems to be drawing a good crowd. I went through at three different points, wait time varied between 5-15 minutes to see the cubs. The Cubs are a joy to watch, I will post photos later tonight.

I overheard one keeper saying that the white lion cubs should be on display in the main exhibit within the next month. The keeper said they had to wait for them to be big enough for that exhibit. However, during the lion keeper talk, the keeper there said they intend to have the cubs in the main exhibit during March break, potentially only with their mother.

The indoor Indian rhino building was closed while the male rhino was on display in the outside exhibit. Pure speculation, but could this be to allow for the calf to get familiar with the exhibit without the public there?
 
They were indoors. Da Mao was back in the larger outdoor exhibit, the platform from the day before had been completely removed.
 
M30t I do not know what will be replacing the olive baboons. That's still a decision that is years away given the size of the troop and the age of most individuals. Right now the zoo is going with the natural attrition model where they will just let them die out. However that could change as numbers dwindle. It's too big an exhibit for too few baboons. The zoo probably is far away from making any kind of decision.

What could replace them?

Top contender would be Hamadryas Baboons. It is the recommended replacement for Olives. They would be relatively easy to get. The exhibit is designed for a primate of their size. No remodel needed.

Next could be a mix of patas monkeys and vervet monkeys. They wouldnt need much of a reno.

Moving along the scale from there would be pure guesses on my part. Personally I hope if I put it out there enough I will get African Wild Dogs. Its a big exhibit. Now the house would need to be completely remodeled but could work well. More realistically they could relocate the hyenas with a house remodel. It's a bigger exhibit for them and move something smaller into their exhibit... I was going to go with some ideas for that but then I start redesigning the zoo again.

Honestly though Hamadryas baboons are the most likely scenario.

As for the rhino house closure that is exactly what they are doing. They have closed it to give Asha and the calf time to get comfortable. Staff and volunteers have been going into see them in small groups to get them used to guests as well. He should be on display over March break according to a facebook reply to a question about when he will be out. They gave times but I have already forgotten the times.
 
TZFan said:
I do not think a new home has been selected for the gaurs. Until the zoo has the funds and plans to begin construction on the new exhibit there is no urgent need to find a home. They will probably look for a home several months before construction begins. If it does take time the zoo does have exhibits in the domain or the old wisent exhibit that could serve as a temporary home while a new home is found.

Phase out is a term that means ultimately the zoo is planning on getting rid of a species. Now there are several reasons they might phase out. First is the zoo just doesn't want them any more for a number of reasons (gaur). Second is that they are hard to get (dhole, tawny frogmouth). Third would be that the AZA isn't supporting a breeding program for the species anymore (chamois, olive baboons, European mouflon, tahr, Barbary sheep). Fourth would be a health issue (Barbary apes are carriers of something). There are other reasons but those are the main ones. Now once a species is on phase out the zoo has a two main options. First is to transfer the animals out to other zoos which will happen in the gaurs case or what happened with tapir, Tanuck. The second option, which is being done with all of the others I mentioned, is that all breeding is stopped and the animals the zoo cannot ship out or wont simply live out their lives at the zoo. When the last of the species dies the phase out is complete. It can take years depending on the species and age of the existing animals. The Barbary apes have been on phase out for quite a while and are now down to two elderly animals. The younger animals were moved to another zoo. Zoo's are constantly changing what they keep so just as some animals go on phase out... others become phase in species though that term is usually used for a whole species being phased into the AZA breeding programs. I don't think the zoo has anything phase in.
Click to expand...

Another reason would be another group (EAZA, SAZARC, SEAZA etc.) have a well established breeding program in their region, so rather then spend the resources on two programs, one region will usually phase-out said species for another species in need of help. ie. Alpine Chamois, Muskox, Himalayan Tahr and Aoudad are just four examples for Toronto

Our own TZFan made a list back in 2013 of AZA Phase-Outs/Ins, from the TAG's if you want too look more into it, starts about halfway down the first page. It will always change as TAG's get updated, but sometimes it takes awhile for that to get out, so we do with what we can.
http://www.zoochat.com/22/phase-out-species-united-states-309373/
 
Very true Sealife. I did leave that reason for phase out off my list. Slipped my mind but that can be a big one.

I do have a more recent phase in phase out list. If anyone is after it you will need to PM me.
 
Certain members of the zoo board have no place being there. Mammoliti just made a fool of himself and the Toronto Zoo. Isn't he one of the people going to China with the mayor. If so, they need to send someone else.
 
Also here's a break down of the viewing times of all the newborns starting Saturaday.

Viewing Hours:

Giant panda cubs: 9:30am to 6:00pm daily (Note: last admission to the Panda Interpretive Centre is at 4:30pm)

Rhino calf: 9:30am - 11:30am and 2pm - 4pm daily

Polar Bear cub Juno: 10 am to 12 pm and 1 pm to 3 pm daily.

Lion cubs: 11am to 2pm daily (Note: location is weather dependent. Lions may be within the main exhibit, or the behind-the-scenes special viewing area)
 
That's awesome to hear. Last I heard, They were thinking of only putting Makali out with the cubs. I guess with the recent beautiful weather we've been having, they got more opportunities to test having the cubs out with the pride.
 
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