The zoo released an important new document from the board meeting. It goes over short and long term plans for species they want to focus on and species to phase out. http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2020/zb/bgrd/backgroundfile-158681.pdf
Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Developments 2020
- Thread starter TZFan
- Start date
Just spent the better part of the last two hours reading this...really fascinating, thank you.
Some fabulous plans that I hope come to fruition, a few that were common knowledge or at least suspected, and a few little shocks. Plus one big one (to me anyway!)
Very interesting to understand how these decisions are arrived at.
Some fabulous plans that I hope come to fruition, a few that were common knowledge or at least suspected, and a few little shocks. Plus one big one (to me anyway!)
Very interesting to understand how these decisions are arrived at.
Just like Judache I have spent 2 hours ploughing through it. It is fascinating and wildly disappointing when I look at it on a whole.
There are some faboulous plans. I like Australasia as much as loosing the tree kangaroo physically pains me. It would really improve it undoubtedly. And the possibly adoption of koalas who need homes after the devastating wild fires of 2019 is amazing. I had just been hoping to get some from San Diego on loan but this is way better if it can happen. The arrival of markhor another huge highlight for me. Love them. Would rather takin but I can be patient and wait out the chamois in hopes their exhibit goes takin. I also like the tug walls for the tigers, expansions where possible. I'm happy that they are looking to get white backed vulture Lloyd a mate or at least companion. And I have always questioned why the zoo wasn't part of the whooping crane program considering how involved the zoo is in other Canadian conservation projects.
The part that kills me is the losses to the collection. It is far more losses than gains and some are absolutely devastating. I have long known about the river hippos and tree kangaroo. Doesn't take the sting away. I am gutted by the loss of the Indian rhinos. I have always loved them. Vishnu is a legacy animal with his father being our first rhino! There has always been an Indian rhino at the zoo. At least the hippos were gone for awhile. They are non breeders. They have no connection to the zoos past. But there is also the loss of so much that makes Toronto a world class zoo. We are one of 2 zoos with both hippo species. We are one of a handful of zoos with 2 rhinos species. We are a rare zoo with tree kangaroos and African spotted necked otters (though I freely admit this one is totally realistic to keep), The primate program is just getting sad. I knew all of them are phase out but to see that we will be halving the collection is sad. I was hoping we would see an addition or two. They even mention the consideration of removing all desert and tropical animals from the Americas which would reduce the primates even further and take out some of the most lively critters at the zoo. Even the Canadian section seems sad when you look at the collection reductions from Tundra Trek to what will be the Canadian Wilderness. No lynx, bald eagle, elk, arctic fox, or snowy owl and the possibility of no moose. Why are we even building the Canadian Wilderness if its only Grizzlies, cougars and bison. Frankly phase out the cougars and grizzlies too and just revamp the domain for bison breeding of display. Probably would be less expensive. But its not just the big losses but the overall losses. So many species are going and when you lay them all out and show the zoo is only picking up a handful of species it just feels overwhelming.
Once I get over my despair about the rhinos and I'm still working through my sadness on the hippos and tree kangaroo hopefully I can focus on the positives more. Loosing 3 of my favourites, plus several other highly prized species, is a tough pill to swallow even though I think it will be a long process before we see them all go. I get over that and I can start to obsess over the areas I'm most happy about. Australiasia is definitely the highlight. I was expecting carnage there and got nothing but amazing news (considering I already knew the tree kangaroo news). Focus on the koalas. some of the pain is worth it for koalas, walrus, more echidna, and a winter roo walk through. And by the time they get to the various areas to revamp there is the chance of a new species or two. Nope the pep talk to myself isn't working just yet.
There are some faboulous plans. I like Australasia as much as loosing the tree kangaroo physically pains me. It would really improve it undoubtedly. And the possibly adoption of koalas who need homes after the devastating wild fires of 2019 is amazing. I had just been hoping to get some from San Diego on loan but this is way better if it can happen. The arrival of markhor another huge highlight for me. Love them. Would rather takin but I can be patient and wait out the chamois in hopes their exhibit goes takin. I also like the tug walls for the tigers, expansions where possible. I'm happy that they are looking to get white backed vulture Lloyd a mate or at least companion. And I have always questioned why the zoo wasn't part of the whooping crane program considering how involved the zoo is in other Canadian conservation projects.
The part that kills me is the losses to the collection. It is far more losses than gains and some are absolutely devastating. I have long known about the river hippos and tree kangaroo. Doesn't take the sting away. I am gutted by the loss of the Indian rhinos. I have always loved them. Vishnu is a legacy animal with his father being our first rhino! There has always been an Indian rhino at the zoo. At least the hippos were gone for awhile. They are non breeders. They have no connection to the zoos past. But there is also the loss of so much that makes Toronto a world class zoo. We are one of 2 zoos with both hippo species. We are one of a handful of zoos with 2 rhinos species. We are a rare zoo with tree kangaroos and African spotted necked otters (though I freely admit this one is totally realistic to keep), The primate program is just getting sad. I knew all of them are phase out but to see that we will be halving the collection is sad. I was hoping we would see an addition or two. They even mention the consideration of removing all desert and tropical animals from the Americas which would reduce the primates even further and take out some of the most lively critters at the zoo. Even the Canadian section seems sad when you look at the collection reductions from Tundra Trek to what will be the Canadian Wilderness. No lynx, bald eagle, elk, arctic fox, or snowy owl and the possibility of no moose. Why are we even building the Canadian Wilderness if its only Grizzlies, cougars and bison. Frankly phase out the cougars and grizzlies too and just revamp the domain for bison breeding of display. Probably would be less expensive. But its not just the big losses but the overall losses. So many species are going and when you lay them all out and show the zoo is only picking up a handful of species it just feels overwhelming.
Once I get over my despair about the rhinos and I'm still working through my sadness on the hippos and tree kangaroo hopefully I can focus on the positives more. Loosing 3 of my favourites, plus several other highly prized species, is a tough pill to swallow even though I think it will be a long process before we see them all go. I get over that and I can start to obsess over the areas I'm most happy about. Australiasia is definitely the highlight. I was expecting carnage there and got nothing but amazing news (considering I already knew the tree kangaroo news). Focus on the koalas. some of the pain is worth it for koalas, walrus, more echidna, and a winter roo walk through. And by the time they get to the various areas to revamp there is the chance of a new species or two. Nope the pep talk to myself isn't working just yet.
I must agree with TZFan. It was disheartening to read through knowing all of those animals will be lost... could you imagine going to the zoo and visiting Indo only to see Babirusa in that rhino area? No river hippos either, I know it’s dramatic to say but you may as well not have a savanna.
@Quartz92 you might sound dramatic but I hear you and can see what you are saying. Hippos are a massive draw just as the elephants were. It really bothers me and I have known for quite some time that move was coming. What drove me crazy was the why. Yes they are off display all winter but visits to the zoo barely exist in winter so was that big enough as a reason? Probably no. And yes building that bigger better exhibit with winterized hippo barn was going to cost a fortune so I could have seen that as a long term maybe get rid of them once Perky and Petal died. What really stood out to me in the document, once I got over my initial shock and anger from the rest of it, was that they mention the roof to their barn needs to be replaced and the house might need to be replaced if new animals were to be housed in it. It was a little comment but it got me thinking. The last master plan saw the hippos staying with a reno in 15 years. And after the master plan they did a site survey evaluating all buildings ect. My guess is that they found the hippo barn roof is quite a bit worse off then they imagined and the rest of the barn will need a massive overhaul so big it may be cheaper to rip it down. That massively shifts the hippo timeline. They can't wait 15 years to do something. Toronto doesn't have probably $20 million or more sitting aside to build the state of the art winterized hippo barn they need to continue keeping the hippos. Add to that renovating the exhibit because if you're going to do the barn you better do the exhibit too so it can all be tied into the same heavy duty filtration system they need. Even if we pretend covid didn't exist and it hadn't crippled the zoo the zoo just doesn't have that kind of cash lying around. It's taken them forever to raise the funds for the orang exhibit during good times and that exhibit cannot possibly cost anywhere near as much as the hippo exhibit would. In the end I think it's not because the zoo doesn't want hippos. I think this decision has boiled down to the fact the zoo cannot at this time provide afford them with a safe enough home. Getting the hippos to another home as soon as possible means the zoo can close down the building keeping animals and staff safe. The roof can continue to deteriorate and if when the time comes to use that space again the barn needs to be ripped down it can be. It's always sat in a terrible spot for the hippos. It wasn't intended for them. It was intended to house a bull African elephant. The list of projects the zoo needs to do is so flipping long that not focusing so much money on such an expensive single animal makes more sense as much as that truth stinks. I could be reading too much into that one little line about the barn but its just the one thing that explains why the zoo isn't just sitting on the hippos until they either die or the zoo is ready to do the pygmy hippo, warthog, red river hog, Nile soft shelled turtle renos. My one hope would be that one day when the zoo gets back to a full reno of the savanna that we will see hippos return.
I have a much harder time rationalizing the Indian rhinos. My guess again is the barn is the problem but I think the nature of the problem is more simple. The recently renovated it though not a full scale reno. I don't think its the structural integrity in question. I think the size of the barn is the problem. It might just barely meet requirements now for Indian rhinos and the zoo realizes as those requirements increase they will need to either get rid of the rhinos or rip down the barn. The yard could definitely be increased if you take over the tahr exhibit (the markhors will not really need 2 exhibits) and get rid of the babriusa and take over part of the plaza in front of the house. It's a move that thankfully should be well down the path so they have plenty of time to rethink their horrible choice. Based on the last master plan any construction in their area was going to take another nearly 15 years. Since the plan is already 3 years behind schedule, and surely that will extend further, it seems unlikely anything will happen to them during Vishnu and Asha's lifetime. The only way I can see that maybe being sped up is if one of them dies unexpectedly. The zoo might then take the opportunity to get rid of the survivor and bring in another herbivore that could take the exhibit until they are ready.
I am still shocked that Australasia is the area I was happiest with. Loosing the tree kangaroo is a terrible blow to me. I have always loved them and loved that we were one of the few select zoos trusted to have such a rare species. But if you are going to take away my beloved tree kangaroos I will accept it if I get more wallabies and koalas. I still wish they would get rid of the komodos and send them to Indo or just get rid of the species. Yes cool. Entertaining to watch? I think not. Not that koalas are entertaining either but they will be an enormous draw. I had wondered when I heard Puzzle was leaving following Collins death if koalas would come up for a summer from San Diego while the zoo maybe worked with Australia to get devils which because they would be retired breeders would be a 2-3 year commitment which would also be a bankable big draw and then the zoo would do something with that space. Personally I hoped for dingos but realized that would require a brand new exhibit so unlikely. But if Saskatoon Forestry Zoo can get a pair of dingos I thought Toronto surely could. I wont mind though if we get an indoor roo and wallaby walkthrough and get a breeding pair of rescued koalas.
I have a much harder time rationalizing the Indian rhinos. My guess again is the barn is the problem but I think the nature of the problem is more simple. The recently renovated it though not a full scale reno. I don't think its the structural integrity in question. I think the size of the barn is the problem. It might just barely meet requirements now for Indian rhinos and the zoo realizes as those requirements increase they will need to either get rid of the rhinos or rip down the barn. The yard could definitely be increased if you take over the tahr exhibit (the markhors will not really need 2 exhibits) and get rid of the babriusa and take over part of the plaza in front of the house. It's a move that thankfully should be well down the path so they have plenty of time to rethink their horrible choice. Based on the last master plan any construction in their area was going to take another nearly 15 years. Since the plan is already 3 years behind schedule, and surely that will extend further, it seems unlikely anything will happen to them during Vishnu and Asha's lifetime. The only way I can see that maybe being sped up is if one of them dies unexpectedly. The zoo might then take the opportunity to get rid of the survivor and bring in another herbivore that could take the exhibit until they are ready.
I am still shocked that Australasia is the area I was happiest with. Loosing the tree kangaroo is a terrible blow to me. I have always loved them and loved that we were one of the few select zoos trusted to have such a rare species. But if you are going to take away my beloved tree kangaroos I will accept it if I get more wallabies and koalas. I still wish they would get rid of the komodos and send them to Indo or just get rid of the species. Yes cool. Entertaining to watch? I think not. Not that koalas are entertaining either but they will be an enormous draw. I had wondered when I heard Puzzle was leaving following Collins death if koalas would come up for a summer from San Diego while the zoo maybe worked with Australia to get devils which because they would be retired breeders would be a 2-3 year commitment which would also be a bankable big draw and then the zoo would do something with that space. Personally I hoped for dingos but realized that would require a brand new exhibit so unlikely. But if Saskatoon Forestry Zoo can get a pair of dingos I thought Toronto surely could. I wont mind though if we get an indoor roo and wallaby walkthrough and get a breeding pair of rescued koalas.
@RNg0905 I couldn't agree more about the sadness of seeing the tree kangaroos go. Puzzle has been interesting to see. She seems so much more lively then we saw out of Nokopo. I think had Collins lived they would have had several joeys. I think in the end when Collins died the zoo just realized it would be hard to get a mate. They had a struggle getting Nokopo when Harrington and Chrissie had trouble breeding again after Noru. Once that happened and they realized Nokopo was at the wrong zoo it took quiet awhile to get Puzzle. They had been looking to replace Harrington for awhile too in between but that was due to age. They knew with his arthritis they could have any female any it wasn't going to happen. The population is just so small and breeding so hard to achieve the zoo has trouble getting animals up here and if breeding doesnt happen its much harder to swap them out. They are a great species but its a hard one for the zoo and the SSP to commit to long term. We would have been well set with two young roos in Collins and Puzzle. Just bad luck we lost him.
I also think the zoo has been influenced in the decision by the wildfires last year in Australia. My guess is that after the fires with so many unreleasable animals the Aussies may have reached out to zoos around the world to see if any were interested in taking in the rescues. Or the zoo reached out and offered. I have to think with the zoo bold enough to state they are working on getting koalas that they must be fairly confident that it can happen otherwise I think they would have left out that part. The koala deal still might not happen but if it doesnt with the Aussies they can always ask San Diego if they can borrow some surplus males again for awhile.
I also haven't heard where she might be going other than south of the border.
I also think the zoo has been influenced in the decision by the wildfires last year in Australia. My guess is that after the fires with so many unreleasable animals the Aussies may have reached out to zoos around the world to see if any were interested in taking in the rescues. Or the zoo reached out and offered. I have to think with the zoo bold enough to state they are working on getting koalas that they must be fairly confident that it can happen otherwise I think they would have left out that part. The koala deal still might not happen but if it doesnt with the Aussies they can always ask San Diego if they can borrow some surplus males again for awhile.
I also haven't heard where she might be going other than south of the border.