Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Discussion thread 2019

Mr Wrinkly

Mr Wrinkly

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10+ year member
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Arctic Wolves - @ThylacineAlive commented on a TZ wolf picture, wondering if they were pure or "zoo-mix". Wolves that were sent to Europe from TZ years ago were known to be pure.

1.0 Imiq came from Parc Safari and 0.2 Dora and Vera came from Europe but I did not know where, so that comment was intriguing. Imagine if the girls are actually descended from the early TZ wolves that we "knew"!

So a few days ago I wrote to TZ, and Parc Safari and asked a few questions. Surprised that TZ replied the next morning, and amazed that not only are Dora and Vera descended through a line from Alvar and Debi, who I am pretty sure were originals, but Imiq is also descended from early TZ wolves!

The TZ reply says the girls came from Artis and I have written to them to see if they have any info about their purity. Neither Artis or Parc Safari have replied yet, although both acknowledged. A Netherlands ZooChatter familiar with Artis is on vacation but when he gets back will see if he can find some info on this. There is a long-time keeper who worked with the early wolves and he might know something about their purity, but it will be hard to catch up with him.

After I wrote to Artis I found that Edmonton received 1.0 2-year old Tundra from them in 2014. Presumably he is related to Dora and Vera.
 
I don't know if Tundra is related to the two Toronto girls, however he (and female companion, Shilah, who is from Parc Safari) are both about as pure arctic as arctic wolves come in zoo's.
 
I heard a pavilion roof broke from snow. Yikkes

Good excuse to walk to the Canadian domain and back
 
meadowvale said:
I heard a pavilion roof broke from snow. Yikkes
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Do you have any further details/news stories that you could link to expand on this?
I ask as thus far all the zoo has said on it's social media pages is that the Malayan Woods and African Rainforest pavilions are closed due to the temperature and accumulated snow on the roof. Still a serious situation, but less serious and costly than a roof actually breaking.
 
I think the zoo would go with Tasmanian devils, which are endangered and have a higher conservation priority then koalas (which are Vulnerable), though obviously getting koalas means more dough from visitors, and are also conservation priority. I wouldn't be surprised though if they got a freshwater crocodile or a perentie (which i'm pretty sure are rare, but still).
 
That would be cool if the multi-year species exhibit would be the Tasmanian Devils but could imagine it'd be tricky for the zoo to get, but a zoo-loving girl could dream! I remember them fondly. They not always showed up for me but when they did, it was a special treat.
 
I think getting devils would be easier for the zoo these days than in the past. The Aussies have been letting more and more US zoos have older retired breeders. They obviously have enough stock in the captive breeding program to let them leave Australia and there is the inclination to let animals leave. Other Aussie animals are also coming into North America more freely than before too. Heck San Diego Zoo is working to get platypi. If that is possible then Toronto getting devils doesn't sound as far fetched as it once did. The time just might be right. Toronto had a great program until it became impossible to maintain a program due to a lack of available genetics. They know Toronto has the experience, though quite awhile ago. Some older animals would make for a very special multi year exhibit that could be converted once the animals reach the end of their lives. I don't believe breeding age devils will be a possibility but even older ones would be cool.

Just to be clear I have no clue what the special exhibit is. No inside information or anything. My suggestion of devils was simply based on looking at the zoo's current exhibits and stock, seeing what I thought they could give up with little disruption and limited need to convert the exhibit, and what animal could fit in there that would be a big ticket draw worthy of being a secret. Devils or koalas could just be wishful thinking. The special exhibit might not even be animal related for all I know. I didn't want to mislead anyone so thought I would clarify the idea of devils is entirely my own speculation.
 
Oh yeah I totally forgot that from the board minutes. I knew I forgot something else pretty big. I'm really happy to see they gave up on converting Australasia. More reasons why I'm thinking devils! Or something in Australasia. I'm just happy that dumb idea is out for now. I didnt want to see the roos go, wombats and the rest go. Indomalaya cannot house all of Oceania without a massive expansion of a building located in a spot ill suited for expansion. Nope you put that $2 million towards the front gates by all means. Leave me with my Aussie friends. We will all be happier in the end. I think they could fit in a pavilion when they do the Canadian Wilderness. Might need to be done in a second phase but it can be done closer to when they are ready for the Americas conversion. Never made sense to do that all at once yet leave the Americas untouched for another 15 years or more. I say reconsider the otter exhibit at the front gates. Expand it to be a otter/beaver set up like it currently is only with better facilities and look I freed space and redirected funds for a small animal house for the Canadian Wilderness.

Oh new idea for the new otter/beaver facility I have concocted. How cool would it be if for the underwater viewing you go down under a big beaver lodge? You would have a big open window into two exhibits but you could under this lodge house displays out from under the weather. The roof could all look like sticks and mud. Loon calls coming from speakers. Pipe dream I know but I like it.
 
Just visited the zoo for the first time this year. Photos have been uploaded.

In addition, I heard something about the acquisition of another Komodo to pair up with the zoo's lone one.
 
Someone said platypus... if it’s that confidential And potentially an animal. I would have to think it’s something that would need to be tight lipped. As much as devils would be neat, don’t know if they would be as big of a draw as koalas, however I don’t think either of those would need to be so tight lipped. Now platypi, hmmm... that I could understand. However, I would throw it out there it may not be an animal, I’m thinking something more entertaining wise, for all we know it could be an animal themed cirque show. Just thinking out loud as the zoo has invested a lot more in entertainment than actually exhibits.

Also curious to know if anyone has any idea where they would put the 3D/4D ride?
 
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@Quartz I did say platypus but for San Diego. Not that I'm not right there with you in thinking that would be a great thing! Sign me up too but we just don't have a ready facility for them and really nowhere logical to put it at the moment. If someone gave me the funds an a free pass to rip things to shreds yes I would do it.

The devils would be a pretty decent nostalgia draw for those of us old enough to remember visiting the devils. The first year would be their big hit but then dwindle interest faster than the pandas.

Don't get me wrong koalas would be great and a big draw. I just think it would be weird they would keep them for multiple years as a special exhibit when we only have housed them for a summer. San Diego tends to like summer loans for its koalas but some zoos do get permanent animals. I'm on board though for koalas too. They would be amazing especially if we got a breeding pair.

I'm not sure how any other thing they would do outside of a big ticket animal would be worth the hype. I'd personally be quite let down by anything but a cool animal. Then again I have built myself up for devils and koalas so almost anything else will make me sad.

@TheGerenuk, there have been plans in place for a new female komodo for about a year, long before Kiki's untimely demise. One has been selected. But with the new exhibit if the animal is due in there it would be very easy to place a male like Kilat who is very genetically valuable. Calgary might want him for their girls. He could also head to the US. They could also lose the tree kangaroos in a koala or devil scenario. But I would be openly upset about that. I would much rather lose the komodos. Nokopo has never done well in Toronto and plans are for her to move and a new female to arrive. A straightforward female swap.The zoo has had a rough time breeding them so they might just give up.

All the discussion about what could be is nothing more than that at the moment. We wont know until probably closer to spring.
 
Yi Qi said:
They should use this for funding the Orangutan exhibit.
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Could you provide your logic behind this assertion?

The article states that the 5 million dollars would be a repayable loan. How is adding 5 million dollars to the already budgeted millions (I want to say 4, but I could be mistaken) going to generate the money to repay this loan?
The article notes that the cost for the lighting experience will be in the range of $25 per adult. I don't think there would be much success in applying that extra fee to see the new orangutan exhibit, so there would need to be another way to generate that income.
 
The zoo has to compromise between being a tourist attraction and making the place a more thrilling destination with building world class exhibits (still waiting for something to wow me since the African pavilion was done, some major improvements but no wow factors). While I would much rather see that $5 million go towards animal exhibits I'm a realist. The zoo needs cash making activities to soak as much out of guests and entice new guests. That money can then be reinvested in the animals. Lots of other zoos do winter light displays. They wouldn't be expanding if they were not money makers. Toronto is not known for jumping on new initiative ideas or taking risks. They wait for others to test it out and see how things go. Investments now in things we zoo lovers may not find interesting will have pay offs down the road for the things we care more about, the animals and amazing exhibits for them.

I hated in the master plan the interpretive center was going in the parking lot. I'm still hoping one day the parking lot could be used for expansion with a parking garage being introduced to free up space. I know pipe dream but dreaming makes me happy.
 
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Yi Qi said:
I just think the zoo should be working on exhibit quality and not primarily guest amenities.
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I can appreciate that sentiment. However, the 5 million dollars you advocate being added to the millions of dollars already dedicated to the orangutan exhibit has to be repaid. Where do you recoup that money from?
The light display recoups that money and generates additional funds that can be reinvested in animals and their exhibits (as TZFan notes).
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Whereas I think tieing in the zoo to the Rouge national park is essentially a good thing, I wonder to what degree parking spaces are affected and if any alternative solutions and reperative payments to the zoo are forthcoming for additional parking space nearby.
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The zoo has lots of parking, the rouge isn't as popular as you might believe and if it does get that popular then they'll just charge for parking or more for parking.

People would also check out both I believe.

Yi Qi said:
Toronto is looking into creating fertiliser from the zoo's waste as part of a "ZooShare Biogas Co-operative"

Toronto Zoo Gets Massive Funding to Turn Poop into Energy
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Also, for some reason, the picture is of an elephant, which we all know no longer exhibit.
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what giraffes >.> Those are long necked elephants!



The zoo is also hiring a
First Nations Conservation Technician, Toronto Zoo
 
They should make the outdoor clouded leopard into a building and house smaller displays or outreach exhibits

It's a bad area for animals because people feed them and stress them too.
 
We all remember when the outdoor clouded leopard exhibit housed lion-tailed macaques. They should really bring the current ones back. Alternatively, you could use it for some other primate, like Celebes Crested Macaques for instance; Killman Zoo in Caledonia does have one male named Bongo.
 
While the outdoor clouded leopard exhibit could house other things the holding is quite small and the exhibit is slated for demo when they get around to working on the rhino area just like the Mayan Woods is too. I don't think any massive investment would be made in the exhibit and it would be unlikely they would bring in anything but a short term species.
 
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