Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Discussion thread 2021

@AJ the TZ Guy, nope sorry cannot let them count as tundra animals, not when we could have moved the Canadian lynx or added wolverines. Tundra Trek is so weak on animals right now that the cranes while technically a possibility shouldn't be considered. You need something else with some star power. Not opposed to adding the cranes to the zoo. Worthy conservation program! However they can go in the domain where a bigger flock can be kept. Plus how hardy will they be to be on display in the winter here when we know they head south? Given that Tundra Trek is one of the big outdoor stops in the winter having all of the exhibits full all day if possible is kinda important. Tundra Trek and Eurasia are the only spots guaranteed to see animals out in the winter, the rest are hit or miss outside or in a pavilion.

Also if you have to convert the fox exhibit into a crane exhibit that's gotta be as expensive or more expensive than converting for lynx. Just think they will need a pond and all the plumbing needed and the barn needs a total retrofit since it was designed for small predators. Those wont be cheap. Now expanding the exhibit out and up a bit would involve some cost sure but they are probably comparable. The big difference is the bang for that buck in terms of visitor interest. I will fully admit wolverines would be much more expensive because its a total start over project.

But sadly I get no vote. Just hoping they changed their mind if we ever see the new master plan.
 
Just to play devils advocate, whooping cranes are actually incredibly winter hearty! As long as they have open water to stand in, they can easily tolerate temperatures to -20 and even colder.

However that said, I fully agree that the zoo really needs to up their game when it comes to both tundra truck and the Canadian wilds. Especially considering we have at least one institution each within Canada that are breeding lynx and snowy owls (valley zoo and rockton respectively), there's absolutely no reason why these two species couldn't be brought back on, and in larger, compatible family groups, even! The snowy owl exhibit is just sitting empty right now, the snow goose enclosure could easily (and cheaply) be updated to accommodate both the geese and whooping cranes, and while Arctic foxes do fit the theme better, it would be very easy to retrofit for lynx, just add a top on the enclosure!
 
Lol you can always play devils advocate @Hyak_II. I honestly didnt know they would do well. I still dont want them in Tundra Trek unless you get your way and they are added to the snow geese enclosure which I always empty when I go by anyway.

I still dont know why we sent the snow owl away. Crystal was doing just fine. Crummy enclosure but if she wanted more space then give us one who cant fly.

I agree in a perfect world where we hadnt been the death sentence of so many foxes in less then 11 years I would pick foxes to stay all day long. But if a compromise must be made bring on the lynx. Although there I am a little concerned if all 3 of them died within a less than 1 year span, especially given the girls were young and Ryan was middle aged. To be fair none of us know what happened to Hamilton other than shes clearly not at the zoo anymore. And wolverines arent that unreasonable if a small zoo like Zoo Suavage can get a pair.

Oh Tundra Trek you will forever be the area of the zoo we all love to hate on... second to the domain hill. Domain hill you will always be the worst don't worry buddy.
 
I gotta agree that Lynx would be a better option over the Cranes. @Hyak_II brings up a solid idea of upgrading the Snow Geese exhibit to accommodate the Whooping Cranes, and then retrofit the Fox exhibit for the Lynx.

I'd like to see an expansion on the Snowy Owl exhibit and then have at least 2 brought back.
 
I'd like to see them make a new exhibit, get new foxes from a different source and try again. Meanwhile, I had this thought that perhaps the old enclosure could be remodelled to house Eurasian lynxes, with the cranes and returning Canadian lynx going to the Canadian exhibits.
 
To build a new exhibit from scratch would be costly so its not likely to happen. Pity because you are right it would be great to have them back and test out a different exhibit and source. Could have been done when the lynx left. Little out of place from Tundra Trek but see if they could get the new foxes to live more than a few years and then consider what to do. But that didnt happen and if the zoo lost a larger red fox from the old wolf exhibit I wouldnt suggest it either.

Eurasian lynx aren't widely kept in AZA zoos. Doesn't mean they couldnt find one. Just means there is little to no hope of breeding. At least with Canadian lynx having an SSP they could breed and easily get animals. But for whatever reasons the zoo doesn't want lynx period. They didn't have to go. Their exhibit was fine. Sure Tilsbury died but Ryan could have been given a new mate or just leave him to live out his days which I mean sadly happened way sooner than expected. Or they could have sent Ryan to a retirement home and kept Hamilton who could have received a mate or just been a display animal. There are a lot of animals on phase out and I get most of them even if it is begrudgingly but the lynx is a but of an odd mystery. If it was a choice between them and the coons I think the choice should have been clearly lynx stay, coon goes. Oh well. What's done is done.
 
one day when I have more money I've always wanted to splurge on the giving tree

I noticed further down the article when they're talking about enrichment they sneak in that the orangutan exhibit is scheduled to open in the spring. Is that the first time we've heard a date that concrete?
 
I believe there have been other articles that mention the completion date being next spring. Only a matter of time before we have a specific date.
 
@hyena142 they have given us projected completion dates like this countless times. The guy in charge of the project has been on Facebook Live a few times and from his lips we have definitely heard spring 2021 and mid August 2021 and as we know still not exhibit. Until Dolf shows us a photo or video of an orang in the exhibit I am not believing an opening date. This exhibit has been nothing but a tease for years. As of Dolf's last photo of the exhibit they had the forms up to pour walls. That's a long way from completion and winter is about to descend on us which would halt most outside work probably. Spring 2021 sounds pretty iffy at this point. Though a mild winter with very little snow could really help push the project to a spring opening. That one is mother natures call.
 
Unfortunately, @TZFan is right. We've been burned so many times on when this project was to be completed, and there have always been some reason for it to be pushed back. Even now, with ongoing construction finally happening, it can still be delayed by a number of reasons.

Now assuming everything goes as planned, than we can hope for a mid spring opening.
 
I wouldnt say we have been burned necessarily. Just given overly optimistic projections from someone with little sense of reality. And I'm not necessarily blaming the guy running it for the zoo. He could be being mislead by the construction team. Somewhere, someone doesn't get what is possible and is an overly ambitious dreamer. History has taught us add 2 years to anything the zoo says is a timeline and if its the orang project in particular triple it for good measure. Lol.

I'm thinking Jul 1 at the absolute earliest. I will however not be shocked if they waste most of the summer and its an August or even dreaded fall opening. I do think though it will be 2022. 2023 seems like a less likely option but Ill take it if the alternative is a fall opening. The zoo needs that huge surge of guests it will produce if timed correctly. With Sekali now due in the spring I do think the zoo will be pushing the construction team hard so they can open with a brand new infant and really have a shot at making some of their investment back. They have to be very motivated to capitalize on the exhibit and infant, possibly 2 by years end if Budi and Ramai can get the job done.
 
For anyone wanting to catch a glimpse of Annie the echidna the zoo just did a Facebook Live with her and showed off her in her current hiding spot. Doesnt look like an angle that will be helpful but you never know. Good to have the spot to look in your mind.
 
Went by the zoo on Friday, it was a cold one for sure.

Stopped by the Indomalayan pavilion and the babirusa was in with the gibbons and to say Hari was interested in what was going on is an understatement. He was pacing and staring over through the glass. Probably some good enrichment for him.

I got a chance to chat with a volunteer who was there. I asked about the Orangutan Exhibit, she made it seem like fall would be the more likely date. Additionally shed commented on how they wanted to get the moms in the outside exhibit before they gave birth so they can get used to it first. Not sure how that will work with that timing. Also I noted the pleural she used on moms, but who knows, take from that what you wish haha. I wouldn't count for much until an official announcement is made.

I put a picture in the gallery of what I could see of their exhibit under construction from the pavilion. Not much to reveal to be honest but still working.

Orangutan exhibit under construction

Orangutan exhibit under construction

  • Media owner Jefferson
  • Date added
Taken at Toronto Zoo on November 26, 2021

Red river hogs inside in holding. Could see their little snouts poking out looking at the pygmies. Only saw one of the lemurs, I think they and the Abrade Tortoises and the grey crowned crane were all sharing a space.
The savannah was pretty quiet, too cold. The giraffes are inside and the roof is complete (not sure if this was posted already). Honestly didn't make our way to the hippos as it was hovering around zero and figured it wouldn't be worth it. The penguins were inside their new indoor digs. Looks good, they were all busy running around picking up sticks for their respective corners.

We didn't bother heading up to the temple or the domain.

In the America's it looks like what ever construction at the America's beaver/otter exhibit is done as the temporary wall is out. I'll be honest not sure what was done. There was one beaver hiding out in his den.

The middle enclosure is still undergoing construction with the monkeys. At least one cotton top tamarin still hanging out. Interestingly, I haven't seen this before, but maybe other have, they had two of the golden tamarins in with the sakis and sally. They were running all over the place.

Otherwise not too much to report. Didn't do all of Eurasia, but one red panda out and running around in the main enclosure, they took done the barrier to the board walk fro the left enclosure as they are going to Strat using it more. The Amur's were out playing today which was great to see. Mazy keeps a very close eye on Mila.

It was decently busy for a cold Friday. The holiday market was going on when we left, so hopefully lots of people stopping in for that.
 
Thanks for the update! You're much braver than I am going at this time of year, I've been waiting for a date that I'm not doing anything and the weather isn't too bad to go again and I've come up short so far

Yeah looking at how the orang construction's going considering we've pretty much hit December I think Victoria Day weekend is a longshot. If they hurry they might be able to make Canada Day but I think even that could be dreaming in colour considering that the zoo loves to take their sweet, sweet time on these things. Would be weird opening it in like September only for them to bring the orangs back in like a month and a half later. Moms plural is very interesting, I wouldn't get excited about it until it's officially announced since it could've been a misspeak but you never know.

Probably for the best you didn't do the Savanna or the Temple, everything besides the carnivores are probably done for the season. Very jealous you caught the beaver outside, I've been trying to do that for years. We don't have cotton-top tamarins, you probably saw the last marmoset. That's cool because for a while there we weren't sure if it was still with us or not.

Thanks again for the visit and all the info!
 
Yes thanks for braving the elements for us! Though I would be cool going now if I lived close enough. The zoo would be fairly empty... my favorite way to visit. Plus no snow yet so I wouldn't need to wear boots which I hate.

I think we have all submitted to the fact spring as slipped away as a goal for opening and Canada Day is a long shot too. Im pretty sure though if its done in the fall they will do the stupid thing and open for whatever time they get instead of holding off until spring 2023.

The mention of mothers isnt so weird. I dont think its an announcement Ramai is pregnant although I think that its just a matter of time. Puppe, Ramai and Sekali are all moms. It does make sense they would though want to make sure all 6 adults are comfortable outside before they bring in guests. It will be potentially very stressful for all of them. Last time Puppe was outside was in 1974 while still at Riverdale. The rest have never known the outside world. A bird flying overhead could terrify them. The wind blowing through the trees might be scary. None of them knows what rain is. Everything will be new so I would guess they will take a couple of weeks to slowly let them adjust to their new world and frankly to test it out. Last thing you need is an orang that is supposed to be inside the exhibit outside making friends with terrified guests because you thought it was orang proof. They are clever devils as a keeper has told me.

You caught the penguins during their interesting period. Its nesting season so they would be more active as they try to get their nests just right before laying begins probably any day now if not already in full swing. Did you happen to get any photos of their improved digs?

I think most of the otter and beaver work was to address plumbing and leaking issues. Its usually damp to down right wet around their exhibits inside and thats not good. I think the zoo finally sucked it up and addressed the issues this year. Definitely new concrete, new roof with proper water protection, new glass (I think), reworked some plumbing. Nothing exciting for us but for the long term good of the exhibits probably very much needed.

You are a lucky duck getting to see beaver, Ward. We only have him now. June died earlier this year. To the best of my knowledge winter is some of the best chances to see him. They are supposedly more active during the winter months so there is hope for you if you go @hyena142.

@hyena142 is also right. You saw the last common marmoset not a cotton topped tamarin. If there is a cotton topped tamarin then we have a new species but we would have more than one in that case. I can see the zoo getting them possibly when Samantha finally does pass. I think the space does call for another tamarin or marmoset to join the golden lion tamarins, saki and sloth.

The construction in the middle exhibit to my knowledge is to be a small waterfall for them to use and explore.
 
If we have a new cotton-top tamarin, that's great, cause that was an animal on my wishlist! owo/ But oh jeez, I didn't realize we were on our last common marmoset... ;w;
 
Oh Ward wasn't out of his den, he was curled up, it was just the last time I was there I didn't see him at all. I would have loved to see him outside of the den though.

Also sorry for the confusion.. It was the common marmoset. I apologize

Yeah it will be interesting for sure to see both when and how the opening of the outdoor enclosure goes. I imagine it will be a slow process introducing them and getting them comfortable. Certainly something to look forward to.
 
Greetings all!

I used to very actively cruise these forums but haven't for some time. Its rather nice to see the same folks still here and active.

I visited the zoo last weekend and have nothing new to report per say. One thing of note was some rather interesting behavior with the gorillas. Charles and a younger male (im terrible with names and lineage so no idea who he'd be) were in the main indoor exhibit together and were in quite a spat. Very high tension, Charles was constantly mock charging the other male, beating his chest and just generally running and jumping around. For such an old man it was nice to see him move like that. Nine times out of ten when I see the the gorillas Charles's back is against the wall and he does essentially nothing.

Moose was off display in the domain. Not sure if this is new news.

Burrows were all shut down but one of the displays next to the Meller's Chameleon had the naked mole rat setup in view, albeit at a further distance than when it was down in the burrows. I'm worried what fate is in store for this section.

No Ring-tailed lemurs on display. Gimme mandrills back please.

Reading here it appears a lot of animals are on phase out. I HATE when this happens most of the time. The Indian Rhinos is honestly jarring. Especially considering they recently renovated the indoor viewing area. Any info on why such a heavy hitting species in on phase out? Knowing our zoo, i'm half-sure they'll be promptly replaced with a duck or crane or something... Additionally, if someone would be so kind as to post a link to the phase out list I'd massively appreciate that (though part of me does not want to see it).

Thanks!
 
Esox said:
I visited the zoo last weekend and have nothing new to report per say. One thing of note was some rather interesting behavior with the gorillas. Charles and a younger male (im terrible with names and lineage so no idea who he'd be) were in the main indoor exhibit together and were in quite a spat. Very high tension, Charles was constantly mock charging the other male, beating his chest and just generally running and jumping around. For such an old man it was nice to see him move like that. Nine times out of ten when I see the the gorillas Charles's back is against the wall and he does essentially nothing.
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First off, welcome to Zoochat! That's very interesting. Are you sure it was one of the younger males because I thought Charles was only housed with the females. Maybe they were trying to introduce him to the boys (his sons Sadiki and Nassir) in hopes of integrating him into the bachelor troop so that a new silverback could be imported to breed with the females in the troop including his daughter Johari. Anyways, it's great to see that the old guy is staying strong and energetic despite being so old. Also, I'm sure some of the regular visitors will have more information on what's up with this.
 
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