Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Discussion thread 2021

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RNg0905

Member
Hey everyone! Happy 2021!
I think in a few posts back, there was mention that TZ was looking to possibly revive something similar to "Zoo Diaries".
Has anyone heard anything from this?
I loved watching Zoo Diaries back then and currently get my fill by watching "Secrets of the Zoo" featuring Columbus Zoo and "Secret Life of the Zoo" featuring Chester Zoo in the UK.
Also, when I watch these shows and when I visit other zoos, I often find myself comparing our enclosures at TZ with the ones I see. Anyone find they do the same?
Cheers!
 
@RNg0905, I don't think there has been any movement on the rebirth of Zoo Diaries. Nothing has been posted in the board meetings at all about it. The only evidence we have that they are thinking about it is the business opportunity posted on the website. I pray someone decides to take them up on it. It would be smart for Animal Planet, Nat Geo Wild, Love Nature or BBC Earth to go for it. It would give them required Canadian content and probably rather cheaply.

If you have Disney + they have a behind the scenes look at Disney's Animal Kingdom to add to the roster. There are other ones too for San Diego Zoo and Safari Park and one for the Bronx I believe. I don't have TV so could be missing some.

I'm always comparing Toronto exhibits to other ones. Usually I am left less than impressed with what Toronto does though so I find it counter productive. Unfortunately the zoo is tied too closely to the city for its finances and while I am certain the zoo would love to come up with exhibits as amazing as other zoos it often is forced to make cuts from projects because it just doesn't have the money. The only areas I really think a great job was done was the African Rainforest and the savanna (what was done in 1998). I often compare Toronto and Calgary. Calgary kicks but every time. Our penguin exhibits opened within 5 years or so of each other and theirs is gorgeous while ours didn't do much to the old seal exhibit (though I think fixing the nightmare of filtration and water quality ate the budget). The panda exhibits were night and day as well. They invested in beautiful exhibits and theming while we just did the bare minimum. Granted, at least we bred the pandas and were able to avoid major embarrassment by having to return them early because we couldn't feed them. Oh how I wish the zoo could be better funded so they could do as amazing a job as other zoos. I think the staff have the vision for it. They just lack the cold hard cash to achieve it.
 
Ontario issues stay at home order, closes non-essential construction - On-Site Magazine

With the new emergency orders, Ford is shutting non essential construction again. I looked over the guidelines and it seems like construction at the zoo isn’t exempt, but I could be wrong. Orangutan construction will cost certainly be impacted (if it hadn’t already been impacted). Man, it just sucks after all the years of waiting, the exhibit finally starts construction, and then it’s probably delayed again by COVID. It sucks but hopefully it will be finished and the zoo opens sooner than later .
 
@GorillaFan15, I think covid stole the 2021 spring opening from us last March. All we can do is hope the zoo can do work on it again come whenever the snow melts and outdoor work can pick up again and pray for 2022.

The only good thing about it is that at a time where the zoo is making nothing they also are not having to put out any money on the construction again until work picks up again. Sounds like a little thing but in a 12 month period where they have and probably will be shut more than they are open, its probably a big thing. The zoo might have to put the project on further hold if things get bad enough and they need to dip into the funds set aside. In the world we currently live in nothing is certain other than our collective desire to see the construction completed even if we can't be there to watch the orangs.
 
I was watching Facebook live today and never realized our Solomon Island skinks are both over 30 years old and they are the same skinks we have all grown up with. Usually when I think fondly of animals who have been around my whole life I think of the gorillas (Josephine, Charles and Samantha), orangs (Puppe, Abigial, Dinding), giraffes (Ginetta, Twiga, Stripes), wombat (Hamlet). I have never really considered the others. Just neat to know those two skink watched me grow up. I will have to add John and Jade to my list of long time friends. Though honestly their passing wont phase me.
 
There is a profile on Anne Innis Dagg, the famous giraffe researcher after whom little Amani Innis Dagg is named. The interview with her which will air tonight on W5 on CTV here in Canada at 7pm for those interested was filmed at the zoo so you probably will get to see Amani, Mstari and Kiko. I don't know if anyone outside of Canada will be able to see it sadly.

'The giant among giraffes': The legacy of Canadian biologist Anne Innis Dagg
 
Decided this was the best section for this given its my idea and not a real development.
If and when the hippos leave and they build the mixed species exhibit for the Pygmy Hippos, River Hog and Warthogs, they really don't need all that land just for three species.
Maybe if they added some small Antelope duiker, dik-dik, Klipspringer, and maybe one of the more interesting Guineafowl.
Still I think they should just gut the entire Savannah and make a huge area then bring in some more Antelope species, even if we're b limited to what's in Canada already Addax, Scimitar, Waterbuck, Bongo possibly Sitatunga and Nyala in not sure.
That would be a good area for a monorail.
 
I think you have an excellent point about the space available for the pygmys, red rivers and warthogs being a lot of land. Personally drives me batty that they will have rainforest animals in the savanna too but thats more of a me problem then a real problem. The pygmys are usually only paired with birds or fish, maybe primates who can get up and away if they get upset. Im not opposed to trying them with other species. The zoo though is never a fan of mixed exhibits. Forget being cutting edge and trying something new. The hogs could both be mixed with other animals but the animal plan clearly is demonstrating that they want to reduce variety not increase it. Pity.

The savannah will likely be opened up more next time its up for reno. That was the last SSP's plan and I would assume it will be the next ones too. It will be awhile though I think. If we look at what hasn't been touched either in a long time or since opening its the Domain, Indo, the Americas pavilion and the temple. The state of repair for the domain is such I would assume it will be first on tap after the new entrance. However we know sending off the tree kangaroo will be one of the first moves once things start moving again and the koala talk feels like it needs to happen soon or the Aussies could close down exports again. That makes me feel like they would look to Australasia first. It's conversion for indoor space for koalas, roos and wallabies could probably be achieved fairly easily and cheaply compared to a lot of other projects. Those are the two I think would follow the entrance work. The entrance looks like a 3 year project from the plans so even if Australiasia can be done at the same time as the entrance the new Canadian Wilderness will probably 2024 start and if we go based on most other projects of 2 years that puts us at 2026. And then the other 3 areas would I would assume be next in some order and then it would be time for the savanna again. I'd guess its not due until 2035-2040, assuming there will be usual gaps and delayed work. I could be wrong though if they see opening the savannah up as a quick and cheap conversion but I have my doubts.

As for adding those other species... YES PLEASE! I'll make it easy. Give the giraffes the ostriches as friends. If that doesn't work give the ostriches the the 3rd giraffe yard I never have seen them use. In the empty hippo exhibit waterbuck, sitatunga or nyala in some combo. Give the warthog exhibit to red river hogs and bongos but punch through to the wattled crane exhibit who could live with them too or move in with the wading birds in the pavilion. Use the outdoor hog yard for the pygmies. Rotate the wildebeest into the ostrich exhibit and the warthogs into the wildebeest yard. Get rid of the watusi and bring in addax and scimitar oryx and to make me even happier just give me a few gemsbok. I would also open up the kudu, rhino, zebra and eland yards but I was trying to avoid big costs. The only real conversions that would be needed is opening up the warthog yard and possibly changes to the hippo fencing to account for hoofstock. Oh and build a pool for the pygmies. I think most of these thing could be done for under $100 000 but we could easily add like 6-8 new species by rearranging what we have and removing 2 species (one of which is already slated to leave). You know what I was so reasonable about all that and saved so much money I get to have the baboon exhibit be converted for African wild dogs. My reward for being practical. Lol. I really do like you choices of species to add. If we can get the species in Canada why not? And for most of them if that means just bachelor herds who cares if it gets us the species, except addax. I have long wanted the zoo to be part of that program.
 
Well just a small change, is Putting the river hogs in with the white rhinos, it’s unusual and combines a savanna species with a rainforest species, but many zoos are doing this, I believe one of the Quebec zoos, and many zoos in Europe. I’d love some new herd animals in the zoo, the kudu should be mixed with other antelope species.
 
I found out some absolutely fascinating news from Parc Safari. Cheetah brothers Kumbe and Jabari were selected to be trained for release to the wild in Zimbabwe. The boys were chosen for the genetics. They are the sons of Cleo who is one of the late great Rafiki's cubs (both Cleo and Rafiki have lived at the zoo). Cleo and Akeelah were traded to Parc Safari in return for Laini and cubs to be named later. Doesn't hurt that their dad Pendo was an import to Canada. Despite covid the boys have been shipped and they are in pre release quarantine for the next 60 days. While Parc Safari encouraged their hunting instincts they are now being taught to hunt. This will be the first release of a Canadian born cheetah. I think its a real feather in the cap for not only Parc Safari but also Toronto and African Lion Safari who helped to create Cleo. Hopefully this goes well and perhaps the next contribution to this program can come from Toronto itself! I just added it here because I realize not as many people look at the Parc Safari thread as the Toronto threads and this really speaks well for the partnership between the two zoos. They are the worthy breeding partner Toronto had hoped African Lion Safari would be.

With a spot of luck, Parc Safari-born cats will help Zimbabwe's cheetah population grow

An unprecedented story in Canada: Parc Safari rewilds two cheetahs in their natural habitat in Africa
 
It's all fine to come up with scenarios to move around the Africa species, add more etc - and I'd never say no to seeing new species and being involved in more SSP plans, even if just for holding purposes.

However, choosing and landscaping suitable outside yard space is the smallest issue. Toronto has loads of that to work with. But, every animal moved around has to have sufficient nighttime/barn/off-exhibit space - which in turn has to be easily accessible to those outside yards for all the shifting, be it through tunnels or outside chutes. Since we know that's already at a huge premium, it's highly unlikely anything major with regard to moving species around, or getting more species that require a decent amount of space (like antelopes) would be possible without the full multi-million $$$ renovations further in the future. Except, of course, a straight switch-up if the species involved have pretty the same requirements, or the ideas already made public because they've already figured out how it could work in the short(er)-term.
 
Of course none of what we suggested will happen for all the reasons you mentioned. I think in the savanna barn space can be a challenge due to the undersized ostrich and watusi barns. If they were a little more reasonably sized it would be easier to make changes. Some could be done easily. If it involves adding a species changes likely need to be made that one doesn't realize. By no means would I think it is just snap move them all. One move at a time is needed to make sure it goes well and proper changes can be implemented. It's far more feasible then when I usually think big with changes.

The zoo really should reevaluate how it redevelops areas, and I think they might be heading in that direction. They should look at what needs to be done and their budge and focus limiting the scope of the work so they can do a better job with what they are creating. I would much rather see a few exhibits done extremely well then a ton of exhibits done on a shoestring. That mentality what what produced their best work. With the rainforest they divided it in two and did an amazing job (minus the gorilla day room) and then waited a few years and then did an equally impressive job with the other half. I might not agree with all of the decisions (getting rid of mandrills) but I cannot knock the quality of the work. Every exhibit looks pretty darn good. If they had tried to tackle it as a one shot deal I don't think it would have undergone the transformation it did. With Eurasia clearly the bit off more than they could chew. They reopened it as a brand new space but only the snow leopard, sea eagle and amur tiger exhibits were new. The rest were pretty much untouched. The drive thru was just fence work so hardly counts. Surely expensive but its just flat land with a path. By maybe separating the area into 3 areas and working on it over say a decade they could have done more. Though the pandas arrivals I think screwed that one up. They could have taken longer instead of feeling pressure to hurry up and get Eurasia done for their arrival.

I like that right now instead of trying to tackle all of Indo Malaya they are just focusing on the orang outdoor. Hopefully because they are again focusing small it means that they will be able to pour every penny into something amazing and not just good enough. Maybe moving slower will result in a great outdoor exhibit and we can tackle the pavilion in other stages.
 
The white rhino with the red river hogs in Granby is our Shaboola. Born and raised right in Toronto. She welcomed Tom and lived with him for awhile before she and Tony swapped places and Sabi and Zohari arrived.
 
It sucks that the White rhino Toronto owns hasn’t had a calf yet. But with a good sized barn and at the time a young Tom it was better to get the younger females as well for breeding.
 
Oh Tom was never brought in to breed with Shaboola. She was too old for that when he arrived. He came up to be our new breeding bull. It took longer to select the best girls for the zoo and actually ship them. She probably would have stayed on and been a companion for either Tom or the girls. However after he arrived in Granby Tony and KC who are brothers started to have social issues with each other and needed to be split. Toronto agree to a rhinos swap. Tony was a good insurance policy if the younger Tom couldnt or wouldnt breed. Once he proved himself Tony became surplus. Shaboola and KC were always just meant to be companions. Granby gave Toronto a convenient place to house her and free up room for calves.
 
This one isnt really Toronto news but it does possibly effect a species we keep pretty significantly. For the first time ever a black footed ferret has been cloned. The female pup named Elizabeth Ann was cloned from a ferret named Willa who lived 30 years ago. If they can clone her and others, hopefully specimens that predate the species rediscovery in 1979 they could give an enormous genetic boost to a population that descends from just 7 individuals. Hopefully this can be a good thing for the species.

Black-footed ferret is first endangered American animal to be cloned - CNN
 
Excited about the cloning but I swear I read about a small population of wild BFF's being discovered unrelated to the captive population, can't find anything about it right now cause all my searches lead back to cloning.
....
Disappointed that there seem to be a lot more species leaving the zoo than arriving.
Don't know how feasible it would be but I'd love if they could get a few more members of Canadas diving and dabbling ducks and others in with Snow Geese to make the exhibit more interesting. Maybe throw up a mesh aviary over top to lower the risk of predation. The Biodome, Ecomuseum and Bronx all have native waterfowl. I don't know what the laws in Ontario are but the possibility of non-releasable birds would be an idea worth considering.
 
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