Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Discussion thread 2023

Makes sense that they will keep guests away while they try to get the orangs used to the exhibit. It's all of the orangs first time outside (Puppe in 49 years). The outside world is big and unfamiliar to them. Keeping guests away removes one potential additional stress for the orangs. Help them get used to their new home faster if they feel safer in it. Plus this is a brand new exhibit and the zoo is home to 7 evil geniuses. If there is a way to escape one of them will find it. So safety is a consideration as well. I remember when the savanna opened the baboons were able to climb out of the exhibit. And there was the time the lemurs let themselves out to mingle with guests. Probably better to avoid that and give keepers as much space to work with as possible should one of the sneaky monsters outsmart the escape proof design.
 
The new exhibit looks amazing - I cannot wait to visit when I am in Toronto next week.

Can I ask a question, and please do not judge as I am genuinely curious. With the towers, and the fact that they expand outside of the exhibit, is there any opportunity that the orangs could either escape or potentially fall from that height when traversing the rope?

I'm almost 100% missing something here but just curious.
 
@Cowdoy1010, anything is possible. O Lines are used at numerous other zoos. Toronto certainly isnt on the cutting edge with this concept by a long shot. I don't think I have heard of an accident or escape related to an O Line. The towers all have an electrified barrier to keep the orangs up on the O Line itself or the tower's platform. Could an orang outsmart it, or be so determined they dont care, or there be a malfunction that removes the deterrent? Sure. Odds are a few good zaps are enough to just deter them in general. But orangs are known for always testing their boundaries. There are probably secondary deterrents as well. And we do know that the exhibit was built to constantly monitor them for research projects so even if someone was to try and escape keepers would likely be alerted almost immediately.

In the case of a fall I dont think the risk there is any different from their indoor exhibit. Sure one of them could slip and fall or something break leading to a fall but that threat is always there no matter what you do. Orangs are pretty sure footed. They usually catch themselves before anything serious happens. The risks would actually be less for them than their wild counterparts because wild orangs are relying on branches and vines where as our orangs are relying on steal and cables constantly being monitored by the keepers. Probably the riskiest thing would be if one of them had a medical event while up there but then that orang would be in just as much danger inside and falling off their climbing structure too. The only major incident I know of with our orangs in 49 years was the tragic death of Kartiko who drowned because he got knocked into the moat during a squabble over cookies careless guests were tossing into the exhibit. In that case the zoo really couldnt have done anything to prevent the death. It was an unpredictable guest induced accident. Im still impressed with the bravery of the guest who happened to be a lifeguard who just leapt into action not knowing how the other orangs would react or if he could safely rescue Kartiko. Getting him out with the help of other guests and then preforming CPR until staff could be alerted and arrived gave Kartiko a fighting chance. Sadly vets couldnt save him from the pneumonia the set in almost immediately and he was gone within I think a day. Poor Puppe had to watch her son drown. That girl has seen some very tragic things in her life.
 
Are the flamingos going to return to the open air exhibit and the peacock free-roam again once the Avian flu dies down? Or is this going to be permanent? That'll be a shame because I think the flamingo exhibit is perfect for them, to see them in a mesh caged area is kind of a bummer. It's also kinda of lame that the lemurs can't use their outdoor exhibit anymore because all the peacocks are housed there at the moment.
 
Having recently visited the Orangutan Exhibit I do have some thoughts that I would like to share:

The first thing is I was quite impressed with the research area and day room style of indoor exhibit with the howdy gates at the top of the room. That was my first wow moment as I really did not expect it to look that great as have that much height for a research room. Secondly, the natural vegetation was a major bonus in the exhibit and I really cannot wait until it fills out and begins to grow and spread those leaves. I really liked the trees and even though they are small now I am pretty sure they will grow in the next few years. Of course I do not expect the trees to be like Singapore zoo level of trees but I have hope that they will grow bigger. The towers are super impressive and I can only imagine that if plans follow and they plan on adding more in the future it will be great for guests. The transfer chute which is a giant metal tower could look a little nicer but it is what it is and it gets the job done. One of the things I really do not like is how the ropes that are tied to the natural trees are set quite far back from any of the viewing points in the exhibit. As well they are kind of low to the ground and I wish they were higher up, obviously not tower level but a bit higher would've been nicer but I'm sure that can be adjusted in the future. Another thing that I'm not a huge fan of is the pathway that goes around the exhibit I felt like the little loop at the treehouse was kind of lame and I wish that it lead somewhere like behind the exhibit or something. I can already see the crowds and making the journey back through all of those people seems like a pain and disturbs the flow of traffic.

Now the smaller things:

I really like how around the exhibit there are chutes to drop a few snacks for the orangutans. As well the feature where the orangutans can spray the guests was really neat to hear about. I do remember the staff mentioning in a Facebook live about a vending machine system but I heard nothing about that when I visited so I do wonder if that idea is still in place or not. Furthermore, I fell in love with the research room which looks so basic but damn the indoor area looks better than the main indoor area and it's just one room plus the actual experiment room.

Some things I noted from ear and chatting with the volunteers and others.
1. Puppe and Budi have been the most curious and eager to explore and I heard that the reason for the closure of the exhibit as because Budi was the one about to go out but that's just all ear and no 100%
2. The volunteers keep mentioning that the plan is just to have 1-2 out on the exhibit at a time which would really suck, all of that space for 2 orangutans at most. I know one of the keepers mentioned that the hope if too have Budi, Sekali and Ramai together but who knows how things will go. I think that a grouping of 1-2 would be better for the indoor exhibit with the towers that lead over to the rhino area. I have hopes that Budi can regulate the females and hopefully they can live in peace as they did under Molek.
3. One of the volunteers was saying that having a mixed species exhibit is not completely ruled out. So fingers crossed. Some animals that I think would fit in really well with the exhibit would obviously be siamangs or gibbons, maybe Asian small clawed otters since the water feature in the exhibit is quite large and runs throughout the whole exhibit and maybe a Malayan tapir. I just have this feeling that babirusas would tear up the fresh vegetation in the exhibit. As well lowland anoa would be so cool but the horns is what really fears me if one of the youngsters in the future decided to play around and injury is very possible.

Anyways these are just my thoughts and first impressions please feel free to comment on my thoughts and let me know if you agree or disagree with my thoughts.
 
@Akula, not surprised Budi might be the first out. He is a big nearly mature male. His natural curiosity to explore new spaces for ladies might help. And Puppe being interested is fun. She is the only one who has been outside while awake. I wonder if she has memories of her wild life in Sumatra with her mother. But also you would think being older she would be a little more cautious. She is a creature of habit and spends so much time on her pillows with her blankets at the glass looking at babies and toddlers.

It would be normal for them to only have 1-3 out together. Budi with Sekali and Wali which hasnt happened yet but could. Budi with Ramai. Then the others all alone. Maybe Jingga with Sekali and Wali but they havent discussed that any more so maybe it didnt work. Molek wasnt good at female management. Puppe and Budi had to be removed before Molek even passed because Ramai was being... well Ramai. Dinding was the one who was able to keep multiple females living peacefully together. Might have been the nature of the orangs with him at the time too.

Dont listen to the volunteers about the mixed exhibit being possible. It was either Dolf himself or the exhibit's designer that said it wasnt built to hold a mix. Specifically mentioned was it wasnt meant to hold gibbons. If its not meant for gibbons, siamangs would be out too. Otters would need to be designed for as well because they need a good pool. Is there even a chute on ground level for say babirusa or tapirs because if not then I would say not likely at all. You wont get anoa. Not even an option.
 
Visited the zoo again today.

  • No birds were present in the Australasia pavilion aviaries despite being surrounded by wire. The Fly River turtles are still around. The exhibit formerly holding the bettongs is also gone, as a new pathway has been added through the pavilion's aviary section. Additionaly, the former tree kangaroo exhibit is empty again; Bucky must've moved back to Indomalaya for the summer.
  • The polar bears were all in separate enclosures after they all got sick from a bad batch of fish.
  • The cheetahs are apparently off display. Not sure of the exact reason behind this. The birds have also not returned outside yet, although there is still a hornbill in the old caracal exhibit.
  • The new orangutan enclosure looks great. I'm looking forward to the day that the public can finally see them outside.
  • I saw a blue-throated piping guan in the Indomalaya aviary. It's possible that some of the other former walk-through species are also present, though I cannot confirm this.
 
Oh those signs have been there for years, weird they seem to be going viral though, I saw them on the front page of reddit today lol. Definitely a shame that people are seeing dumb videos of people showing videos to gorillas and trying to recreate them, if they did make new ones hopefully they're bigger and harder to ignore
 
If this is the right spot for it, I've been curious about how things are going with the intended return of caracals and emus, as well as that potential acquiring of a new female Komodo dragon from Disney's Animal Kingdom, any news on those fronts?
 
@AJ the TZ Guy, no news on any of those things. I think we can write off the caracal. She was recommended to come up in 2019. She has another home by now and she is middle age to late middle aged. Not much point in the effort. I dont think anyone has heard anything more of emus. Pretty sure we can kiss the female komodo goodbye too. Its been a long time since she was recommended. Getting her breeding with another dragon was probably more important than waiting to get her up here. Plus Kilat is now elderly and has arthritis. He could be past the point of being able to do his job physically. Might not be worth the effort to bring her up to just find out more reproductive years will be lost for her while we struggle to bring up a replacement male.
 
Just one thing to point out, bringing up a valuable female Komodo into Canada actually makes a lot of sense. Best case scenario, reproduction at Toronto happens, but even if Kilat can’t get the job done, Calgary has two extremely valuable males who could step up to the plate if needed. Thorn and Shrukhan are both physically fit and in their prime.
 
Right I forgot Calgary has two male komodos that are now mature. I keep thinking they are little squirts. They have been there for years now. The Disney female isnt valuable though. Shes bottom of the pile and is actually Kilat's half niece. I know not as important in reptiles. But given her low genetics and the super high genetics of Thorn and Shrukhan (top two dragons in North America), thats not a terrible pairing. They would be a better match than Kilat.
 
I hope they find another possible caracal, I miss having them. Emus too, I hope those are still coming back. Shame about the dragon deal too, I just think it'd have been awesome to have one of Disney's animals now living here.
 
@AJ the TZ Guy, if you really want a Disney animal at the zoo you have had your wish granted for the last 14 years. White rhino Tom was born there.
 
Just got back from a visit, here's some updates on various goings-on at the zoo

-The sign outside the African Rainforest pavilion is sporting a very nice new paint job

-The gorillas are currently not in their main habitat, only outside and in the night room, as they're replacing the glass in the back viewing area

-All the Savanna birds are out. I also spotted ground hornbill Biko so he's still alive, I'm pretty sure I remember someone was wondering if he was still with us a while back

-The penguin exhibit is finally open again. No penguins out today though

-The Australasia aviary is finally finished and it looks great. Looks like it's equipped to be an exhibit, a new viewing area's been installed with barriers. I'm guessing it'll be an outdoor spot for the birds but it'd be cool if they put something new in there

-Speaking of Australasia the first half of the pavilion is closed again, you currently enter at the old side exit near the wombats and you exit at the usual spot in the GBR. I guess it makes sense considering the tree kangaroo exhibit and the aviary are both empty and they're working on a mural in there at the moment.

-Some shuffling's happened in the Kids Zoo. The Abyssinian ground hornbill has been moved to the old secretary bird exhibit, with his old exhibit being taken by Sheldon the eagle-owl. The guinea pigs are gone, the skunk has that exhibit now. The domestic ferret has made a return in it's old exhibit. The woodchucks are gone and it looks like we're down to only outreach alpacas. We also have two new domestic rabbits in the exhibit that the capybara used to be in.
 
I wonder if the glass being replaced in the gorilla habitat is going to prevent the gorillas from seeing guests and those pesky phones.

Im the one who wondered about Biko being alive. Just seemed so weird when the chick hatched that they only mentioned mom Catelynn and the boys raising it. Good to hear he is alive and well. Biko and Catelynn are a strong breeding pair.

The front half of Australasia could be closed because they are introducing the birds to their new space and probably after months, each other.
 
It wouldn't be the first time the TZ used one-way glass, some time ago they switched the glass from the Indo pavilion into the tiger exhibit to be one-way. It'd be a shame to lose out on interactions with the gorillas but if unruly guests are causing problems then that's what it's gotta be
 
A couple of the walls on the interior of the front gates, as well as the zootique exterior, are currently being repainted, and there are plans for some other buildings to get a fresh coat (I believe some areas in the discovery zone, but can't be sure). These things will occur over the next few days, and when I saw the finished product, I was surprised how much it needed it. It looks quite a bit better, and now supposedly meets some AZA requirements that needed to be addressed from the recent accreditation visit.
 
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