Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Future Developments 2014

Oh, something I forgot to mention. We had another Kudu calf. A girl. No name yet. Keepers are hoping for mother and daughter to go on exhibit with the male soon.

Also, the Keeper that brought the Watusi to the zoo said they have about a week left in quarantine, but he wasn't sure when or if they'll be going on exhibit anytime soon.
 
Hanging out with some other frequent zoo goers today was pretty interesting. 2 of them have been going to the zoo frequently since its opening. They have some pretty strong opinions on certain factors of the zoo.

The Pandas being the biggest. They felt that the zoo shouldn't have made a 5 year deal to keep them. They feel, as well as some Keepers, that the first 2 years was the big draw. After that attendance will dwindle, unless we get cubs, which they doubt will happen. They'd rather have the Pandas leave now.

They were also pretty upset about losing the Elephants, which they blame the government for, as the government didn't want to spend the money to fix the exhibit up to standards. Plus the whole Bob Barker fiasco.

They're were also pretty upset about the whole Eurasia construct delays. They liked to old route, which is now the zoomobile path. They hate the fact that only some animals can be seen on the zoomobile, not allowing you to look at them on your own time.

They were nice guys and pretty hardcore zoo goers. They remember when the Rhino, Zebra, and Greater Kudu was all one mixed animnal exhibit.
 
Another note the Keeper made about the lions was that Fintan and Makali have been mating, but they don't expect cubs anytime soon. They check Makali's stool and urine on a regular basis to check for pregnancy and for when she's cycling.
 
Its interesting to hear other long time zoo goers opinions on things.

I like the pandas but I can see their point. They are costly and that money could have been used for other things. And I hate to agree with them because I want to see a panda cub so badly I would make a winter trip to the zoo soon after it went on display, but I just have a gut feeling there wont be a cub. But I disagree that they should have had the pandas just two years. Thats just not even worth bringing them. Unless I misunderstood you.

Im glad the elephants left. Now we all know my opinion on the whole fiasco following the decision to end the program but I agree with the decision to send them. Canada really isnt elephant friendly unless you build an amazing indoor exhibit for the winter. Something so big its equal to their outdoor space. The exhibit would have just cost so much. At the time it was pegged at $16 million but realistically it would have been a fair bit more (just based on the $9 million estimate for the hippo exhibit down the line). Thats a ton of money on one species when the zoo cant even scrap together $3.5 million for the orang outdoor which could also benefit the gibbons and eventually other species if they created a mix. Plus just think of the space the elephants would have demanded. All of that space in the back of the savanna from the elephant barn, taking over the hippos, all the way to the domain. Thats still just one species. They could add exhibits to the savanna down the line. And then there would be the issue of finding a breeding herd. Its not that easy to get breeding animals. Bulls sure. Cows... not so much given the new regulations. I think ending that program will benefit the zoo in the long run.

Im interested to see what you all think of Eurasia as you visit and give your reviews.

I remember the old savanna just barely. I remember the rhinos, zebras, kudus and Im pretty sure ostriches together... and I feel like wildebeest and impalas but Im less sure of that. I liked the mix. I also remember being there shortly after the rhinos were pulled because white rhino Bull had killed a zebra.
 
They preferred the the way it worked when the Pandas came during the 80's. 3 months then they leave. They talked about how doing something similar to that this time, would've brought in enough visitors to see a positive financial impact, without the big cost that comes to having them for 5 years.

In my opinion seeing the Pandas the first time was entertaining, but I happen to come when Da Mao was active. During the majority of my visits, they aren't moving. In my last 10 visits Da Mao was sleeping, Er Shun was probably up and about 4-6 out of those times. I'm hoping for Panda cubs, but realistically, we may not see any. Calgary will probably has a better chance, because the Pandas will be a bit more mature.


I'm hoping to get pictures of Eurasia when it open. I'll definitely post those for all to see.

They also talked about the Rhino attack against the Zebra. They said that was the real reason for segregating all the animals. After the Savanna renovation, the animals were split apart.

Also, I Keeper said that Toronto Zoo has a foul habit of not wanting to be a zoo that tries something completely new. Before they implement any ideas, they contact other zoos that have tried the idea to see the pros and cons of the idea. Toronto Zoo will probably never try something that hasn't already been tested, which kinda sucks.
 
Lol I love your description of the zoo's foul habit. They are too cautious. They hate being on the cutting edge which it why Calgary is quickly gaining ground on them and possibly even surpassed them as the better zoo.

I loath how they tend to reject mixed exhibits. So boring to have just one species. I can see separating the rhinos out once they had a problem... but to have pulled the zebras, kudus, and ostriches out was stupid. They live together on the plains of Africa just fine. I wish there was a massive exhibit with zebras, kudus, ostriches, wildebeest, eland, giraffes, impalas or gazelles or both, marabou storks, hornbills, vultures, and cranes. I would like the rhinos mixed in, others do it but the zoo would always look back to the zebra death and avoid it. The huge exhibit would really make the savanna stunning. And thats just one of dozens of mixed exhibits the zoo could do but wont.
 
I'd love to see the zoo try both new and innovative things as well as see a large mixed species exhibit. Maybe when the Eland become part of the Giraffe exhibit, they'll look into trying more mixed exhibits. Some of those old timers said they'd love to see the Gibbons with the Orangutans once the outdoor exhibit is done.
 
I would agree with you. More innovation would be amazing. I thought I read somewhere that the zoo was considering an O-line for the Orangs. Thats a newer idea and would be pretty cool.

I would love to see more mixes too. Once the eland and giraffes (more giraffes that is) are integrated I would love to see a couple of other species added. I dont see why the kudus couldnt be with another mammal. Zebras might be testy but they could have more exhibit mates. In the pavilion the meerkats could easily get exhibit mates. I dont see why the zoo doesnt try to get other species of lemurs too. Thats a big exhibit and the lemurs certainly dont make it seem full unless they are on the go. Another kind would have a different activity pattern. In the temple the capybara could have at least 5 or 6 different kinds of exhibit mates... mammal exhibit mates. Countless more non mammals. Those are just a few off the top of my head in exhibits that could handle more animals.

The orangs and gibbons are an interesting thing. They are highly compatible species. Many zoos go that root. I wouldnt count on the zoo doing that so long as Lenny and Holly are alive. They hated the babirusa and they probably wouldnt risk mixing them with the orangs. However I think that if by the time the renovate the pavilion Lenny and Holly are gone then the zoo would likely look at bringing in other gibbons, siamangs or langurs to be with the orangs. They could go for a new species of gibbon. Because they are held in more mixed exhibits with orangs getting a new pair of any other smaller primate who are familiar with orangs should be pretty easy. I would like to see the exhibit be ever more dynamic and include Asian Small Clawed Otters and possibly the babirusa. It would be a showcase exhibit. But even just the orangs and gibbons would free up so much space for redevelopment inside. Just think the gibbon exhibit and holding could be used to expand the orang exhibit. Theres so much that could be done there. I just hope the zoo doesnt crap out on it. I want something as big of a change as the African pavilion.
 
TZFan said:
I would agree with you. More innovation would be amazing. I thought I read somewhere that the zoo was considering an O-line for the Orangs. Thats a newer idea and would be pretty cool.

I would love to see more mixes too. Once the eland and giraffes (more giraffes that is) are integrated I would love to see a couple of other species added. I dont see why the kudus couldnt be with another mammal. Zebras might be testy but they could have more exhibit mates. In the pavilion the meerkats could easily get exhibit mates. I dont see why the zoo doesnt try to get other species of lemurs too. Thats a big exhibit and the lemurs certainly dont make it seem full unless they are on the go. Another kind would have a different activity pattern. In the temple the capybara could have at least 5 or 6 different kinds of exhibit mates... mammal exhibit mates. Countless more non mammals. Those are just a few off the top of my head in exhibits that could handle more animals.

The orangs and gibbons are an interesting thing. They are highly compatible species. Many zoos go that root. I wouldnt count on the zoo doing that so long as Lenny and Holly are alive. They hated the babirusa and they probably wouldnt risk mixing them with the orangs. However I think that if by the time the renovate the pavilion Lenny and Holly are gone then the zoo would likely look at bringing in other gibbons, siamangs or langurs to be with the orangs. They could go for a new species of gibbon. Because they are held in more mixed exhibits with orangs getting a new pair of any other smaller primate who are familiar with orangs should be pretty easy. I would like to see the exhibit be ever more dynamic and include Asian Small Clawed Otters and possibly the babirusa. It would be a showcase exhibit. But even just the orangs and gibbons would free up so much space for redevelopment inside. Just think the gibbon exhibit and holding could be used to expand the orang exhibit. Theres so much that could be done there. I just hope the zoo doesnt crap out on it. I want something as big of a change as the African pavilion.
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As great as an o-line would be, I still don't think it's very creative since there a few other zoos that have already done it.

I completely agree that the zoo should try to have more mixed species exhibits, although I'm not sure if it will ever happen. In addition to your great list, another mixed species exhibit I would love to see are the spotted necked otters and red river hogs. These two species are compatible and the current otter exhibit is one of my least favourite parts of the zoo.
 
Your right its not creative but we are talking about Toronto Zoo here. Its a newer idea and we all know how cautious the zoo is. Im surprised they would even consider it. One because its new but also maybe the more practical side of it... we have long cold winters where it would go completely unused and possibly incur significant stresses on the cables. I could see skipping it in a Canadian zoo... any Canadian zoo... simply because of our winters. The cost verse use may not be worth it. I would love to see it but I could see it ultimately being ruled out.

As far as the AZA's most recent care manual for otters is concerned the Spotted Necked Otters are not great with other animals. They have been with Schmidt’s spot-nosed guenon, Allen’s swamp monkey, and François langur but there was aggression on the part of the otters which in one case lead to the death of a newborn guenon at the hands of an otter and then the death of the offending otter at the hands of the guenons. The program was discontinued. Monkeys were chosen because they could get up and away from the otters and food could be placed higher. This wouldnt work with the hogs. THey are ground animals as well and the otters would probably pester the hogs and eat all their food. They could also pose a risk to the hoglets. Mixed exhibits might continue to be tried with them but I highly doubt Toronto would attempt that even if they had an exhibit were it could be tried. Its risky.

The red river hogs could go out into any of the savanna hoofstock exhibits. They could chill with the cranes possibly. If we had other african primates (not gorillas, chimps or bonobos) they would work. Or bat eared foxes but we dont have those either.

When it comes to otters the only mixes you will see are with Asian Small Claws and North America River otters. The asians have been tried with babirusa, binturong, black hornbills, butterflies, peafowl, gibbons, giant hornbill, muntjac, Prevost squirrels, proboscis monkeys, slender-nose crocodiles, giant Asian squirrels, and Rodriguez fruit bats. The river otters are good with beavers but usually they are separated when young are involved. Giant otters are not recommended at all for mixes because they are highly territorial and aggressive.
 
TZFan said:
As far as the AZA's most recent care manual for otters is concerned the Spotted Necked Otters are not great with other animals. They have been with Schmidt’s spot-nosed guenon, Allen’s swamp monkey, and François langur but there was aggression on the part of the otters which in one case lead to the death of a newborn guenon at the hands of an otter and then the death of the offending otter at the hands of the guenons. The program was discontinued. Monkeys were chosen because they could get up and away from the otters and food could be placed higher. This wouldnt work with the hogs. THey are ground animals as well and the otters would probably pester the hogs and eat all their food. They could also pose a risk to the hoglets. Mixed exhibits might continue to be tried with them but I highly doubt Toronto would attempt that even if they had an exhibit were it could be tried. Its risky.

...

When it comes to otters the only mixes you will see are with Asian Small Claws and North America River otters. The asians have been tried with babirusa, binturong, black hornbills, butterflies, peafowl, gibbons, giant hornbill, muntjac, Prevost squirrels, proboscis monkeys, slender-nose crocodiles, giant Asian squirrels, and Rodriguez fruit bats. The river otters are good with beavers but usually they are separated when young are involved. Giant otters are not recommended at all for mixes because they are highly territorial and aggressive.
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Spot-necked Otters are mixed with other species at various zoos still, including San Diego where they are with the Swamp Monkeys and Guenons - possibly this is the specific mix that was mentioned above. I think any otter/other mix is potentially dodgy - otters are carnivores after all. I don't know that they would eat the Hog's food though.
 
TZFan said:
Your right its not creative but we are talking about Toronto Zoo here. Its a newer idea and we all know how cautious the zoo is. Im surprised they would even consider it. One because its new but also maybe the more practical side of it... we have long cold winters where it would go completely unused and possibly incur significant stresses on the cables. I could see skipping it in a Canadian zoo... any Canadian zoo... simply because of our winters. The cost verse use may not be worth it. I would love to see it but I could see it ultimately being ruled out.

As far as the AZA's most recent care manual for otters is concerned the Spotted Necked Otters are not great with other animals. They have been with Schmidt’s spot-nosed guenon, Allen’s swamp monkey, and François langur but there was aggression on the part of the otters which in one case lead to the death of a newborn guenon at the hands of an otter and then the death of the offending otter at the hands of the guenons. The program was discontinued. Monkeys were chosen because they could get up and away from the otters and food could be placed higher. This wouldnt work with the hogs. THey are ground animals as well and the otters would probably pester the hogs and eat all their food. They could also pose a risk to the hoglets. Mixed exhibits might continue to be tried with them but I highly doubt Toronto would attempt that even if they had an exhibit were it could be tried. Its risky.

The red river hogs could go out into any of the savanna hoofstock exhibits. They could chill with the cranes possibly. If we had other african primates (not gorillas, chimps or bonobos) they would work. Or bat eared foxes but we dont have those either.

When it comes to otters the only mixes you will see are with Asian Small Claws and North America River otters. The asians have been tried with babirusa, binturong, black hornbills, butterflies, peafowl, gibbons, giant hornbill, muntjac, Prevost squirrels, proboscis monkeys, slender-nose crocodiles, giant Asian squirrels, and Rodriguez fruit bats. The river otters are good with beavers but usually they are separated when young are involved. Giant otters are not recommended at all for mixes because they are highly territorial and aggressive.
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I don't know how accurate it was, but I read an article a few days ago saying that spotted necked otters have been mixed with red river hogs at one zoo and it worked out.

Back to the topic of the Toronto Zoo's future, I agree that it would be great if the zoo used some creative ideas from other zoos, but I wish they could come up with some of their own. Hopefully they'll be able to think of some good ones for the new orangutan exhibit.
 
Went to the zoo today. Spent nearly the whole day there. Here’s what I found out.

Since the Discovery Zone is closed, you have to go the long way to get to the Pandas. The long way is through the Panda exit area. Somewhat annoying.

There’s active construction behind the Mandarin shack. Looks like some last minutes landscaping, maybe some paving.

Lionfish in the Australasia Pavilion is not present in its exhibit. Last time I saw the Lionfish, it was seemingly lifeless at the bottom of the tank by the small eel. There’s a sign saying that the animal is off exhibit due to exhibit conditions.

One of the Marmosets is receiving medication, so it’s been put in a cage within the exhibit. The cage is just so the Keepers can better manage the situation, which isn’t serious.

Also in the Americas Pavilion, the large frog exhibit now has 3 species of frogs in it. Lemur Leaf Frogs, Panamanian Golden Frogs, and Granular Glass Frogs. Earlier this year it was only the Golden Frogs, and then the Leaf frogs were added during the summer. Now the Glass Frogs are in with them, although I only noticed 2.

Took a visit to the Canadian Domain as it reopened. The Paving is obvious, but it in no way suggests that they’re going to fix up the rest of the Domain over moving the animals up. The Paving is done is 3 sections up the hill. It looks like it was done for vehicles so they have a better time using the road rather than people.

One of the Cougars (the smaller one, don’t know anything about them) came right up to the fence and started purring. Pretty cool to see, as when I usually visit them they’re in the cave.

Went to the Cheetah Keeper talk. The 3 girls were out, Cleo (F), Tika (F), and Akeelah (F). Keeper said that they are hoping to try more breeding this fall with some of the younger girls, and a couple of the older girls that aren’t pass that retirement line. They’re hoping for good results.

At the Lion talk, the Keeper said they are hoping to start switching days with the White Lions and the Tawny Lions. Either starting next week or the week after, hopefully.

1 White Rhino was out. A regular zoo goer said it was Tony, as the Girls and Tom just went in. He just finished with a mud bath before heading to the Rhino house.

Asked a Keeper about if they have a scheduled date for the opening of the Giraffe’s second yard. All she knew was that it will be happening in the fall. She was also unsure of any possible feeding station on the bridge in the second yard.

At the Hippo talk I learned that the Hippos love having their mouths cleaned. From what the Keeper described, the Hippos have a pretty good dental plan compared to most people. They enjoy the cleanings and gum massages. Samson is even known to fall asleep during the cleaning, with his mouth open. They actually have a station set up specifically for the Hippos to rest their head on while they open their mouths.

Sekali was out alone in the Orangutan exhibit today. It was interesting watching her, because she was watching everyone walk by until a child started screaming his head off. Sekali looked annoyed and went to grab the blue tarp and cover herself completely, almost to try and get away from the screaming. Pretty neat to see.

Now, finally the exciting news. I entered the Malayan Woods looking to see if the Clouded Leopards exhibit was open. Turns out it wasn’t. Windows are still boarded up. So I peeked in the opening that’s next to the Ratsnakes. And there it was, a Clouded Leopard walking by the opening. After seeing that I decided to wait around to see if it would walk by again so I can get a picture. After a bunch of nothing some elderly people came by and started talking quite loudly about the Ratsnakes (one of them was shedding). Then right above my head I hear the Clouded Leopard vocalizing at us, sounded kind of like meowing, but not quite, if that makes sense. I look up and see it looking back down at us while still vocalizing. I tried getting a picture but my camera couldn’t focus properly before the leopard disappeared. As you can image, I was quite vexed. So I decided to stick around until I got at least one picture.

While waiting I ran into a Keeper who happens to be the head Keeper in charge of the Clouded Leopards. He said the Leopards have been back from the Health center since Tuesday, as their Quarantine is up. The reason they aren’t yet on display, is because he wants the Leopards to get better acquainted with one another. Mingma, the male, is comfortable with the female, Pavarti, but she is uncomfortable with Mingma. She’s pretty timid of him. Once they can get along to a point that the Keeper is comfortable with, then they’ll go on display for the public. There is a high chance that they’ll be on exhibit by themselves. The main reason that the exhibit is still boarded up is because they aren’t used to people staring at them, as they were never on display before. Once they are used to each other, having them on exhibit won’t add additional stress. Oh, and after my talk with the Keeper I got some shots of the Mingma, who was in the enclosure. I’ll definitely post some pictures.
 
That sounds like a great day at the zoo cypher!

Hopefully the lionfish will go back on exhibit soon. It's one of my favourite fish at the zoo. Did you actually see the eel that lives with the lionfish? I've been looking for it every time I go to the zoo and still haven't seen it.

From what you said, it sounds like the Canadian Domain won't be receiving too many renovations and sometime in the future (hopefully sooner rather than later), the animals will be moved up to the Canadian Wilderness.

The news about the clouded leopards is very exciting and you're so lucky that you got to see them. I will be visiting the zoo sometime in the next few weeks so I hope their exhibit will be open.
 
Interesting to hear more about the clouded leopards. Im glad they are back in their exhibit and things are going well with them. It will be exciting to see them eventually.

Oh did you happen to see or hear anything about the kudu calf?
 
Nothing new on the Kudu Calf. In fact I didn't see any Kudus out today. Only the birds were visible. I do know its a girl, but that's it.
 
Went to the zoo today. Not much going on, but there were a few interesting things.

Clouded Leopards are still off exhibit, but I managed to see one come up to the fencing to vocalize at me. They seem pretty active compared to Merriweather, who was obviously older. I’m sure they’ll be a big hit once the exhibit opens.

I took the time to read the labelling they added for the new Burmese Star Tortoise. Pretty interesting in the length the zoo went to make sure this little guy survived. It was the only fertile egg out of 9. At one point the egg cracked, prematurely. The Keeper at the Health centre added a microphone to listen to its heartbeat, until it hatched. It was under 24 hour watch.

No word on the Greater Kudu calf. In fact none of them were on exhibit in the morning. Not sure about the afternoon.

All 3 Hyenas were on exhibit with each other for the first time today. There were 2 Keepers on watch for the introduction. Pinduli and Echo have only interacted through a mesh in the Hyena house before today. In the beginning of the introduction, Pinduli quickly asserted her dominance on Echo, scratching and lightly biting him, which was to be expected. Echo seemed extremely nervous, but he seemed to find his place in the pecking order, which the Keepers think may be the bottom. He’s shown to be pretty submissive towards Moja. The neat thing was the Echo was howling. You were able to hear it at the Polar Bears.
 
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