Trophy Hunting

dragon(ele)nerd

Well-Known Member
Just wondering what everyone's true thoughts are about Trophy hunting.. is it right to kill majestic specimens in the wild! I personally am opposed to this. Green Hunting I think is a much better option you can still track and hunt the legendery animal but you don't end up killing it...

What's everyone else's thoughts?
 
I think this has been discussed before but anyway. I saw a documentary - pretty **** one, not a fan of the hosts way of handling things but anyway, One South African Game Farm owner was very much dedicated to wildlife conservation and could not be there when his animals were killed. However he knew what he was doing was necessary for the survival of the species. In many countries something is not worth doing if there is no money to be made from it - like breeding programs etc. This man at one point had the only animals from one species of antelope in the country. He was responsible personally for them not being extinct in an area they previously naturally roamed. Not the government and not th conservation socieites that bag them out.
The point of game hunting in Africa is not only to make a buck from the yanks that kill them but to maintain stable and healthy populations. Many of the animals in game farms are the healthiest examples of a species you will find as they, buy, swap and breed the biggest, strongest and healthiest animals only. They are very particular about what they breed and will always maintain good large populations. I o not however agree how it is done in some cases where the animals are drawn to makeshift watering holes where hides are established. I believe it would be a better experience if the hunter was to travel with the tracker and find the animals alongside them rather than waiting for a a radio call from a tracker saying, they are around hide 1 or whatever.
I also don't believe african animals should be hunted in other countries. I don't think it's right for african animals to be brought to the US to be hunted. This has no conservation value and is taking money away from some of the truly good game farmers. I'm not saying all game farms are good for conservation but there are some out there with a purpose. I recently recieved an email from a mate in south africa with a property for sale. One of the properties had a lion farm with 50 pens and something like a hundred lions, the other had elephants rhino giraffe, a massive massive list of animals including five bengal tigers and two pumas, plus a variety of asian mammals, to attract the hunter interested in everything. There must be alot of money in it over there because both properties are for sale togther at a massive $15,000,000 US.
 
Hey, thanks for the info, all I can say is wow! I'm kinda lost for words
 
I would like to see someone telling a so called "green hunter" they will take them out and track an animal and take its picture for $50,000. I don't think you would get many takers at anywhere near the price paid by safari hunters. Anyone who wants to see an animals and take its picture will go to Kruger National Park and do it for almost free.

I have herd of very wealthy people spending a month hunting in Africa and shooting about 10 animals for $750,000 US dollars. The money these people spend employs many locals and protects thousands of acres which would otherwise be used for cattle.

The previous link on the other hunting topic gave individual animal species around the world a trophy fee of up to $100,000 US dollars and it also gave the total number available usually around 2 a year.

You may also notice I don't like the term green applied to many groups as their policies (such as anti hunting) would lead to huge reductions in income to protect endangered species and would lead to many species extinctions. They should be referred to as animal libbers not green.
 
The thing with many hunters is that thye claim that they respect animals and are trying to conserve them by going about the larger non-productive specimens, take example the magnificent seven they were absoultely stunning but there was a project to protect these animals to the death...
 
In 1985 I was in Zimbabwe. The situation there has changed now, but I'm told similar arrangements to the one I'm about to describe exist in other southern African nations.

In Zimbabwe in the 1980's some of the national parks (like Hwange) were huge. They were surrounded by Hunting Reserves, where hunting was permitted under the guidance of the National Parks authority.

The idea is, the National Park is the centre of all the wildlife. As species breed up in numbers and density increases, individuals overflow out into the hunting areas where they can be legally hunted. No hunting takes place in the National Park, so the core of the population is protected.

The benefits of this to the community are enormous. At the time (1985) if a white hunter from USA or Germany wants to hunt an elephant, he pays the authority something like $15,000 US dollars, of which half goes directly to the local community to help build roads, schools, hospitals etc.

To go on a hunt you need porters, trackers, gun bearers, cooks etc and these all come from the local community - and get paid for the service.

So the hunter finally finds his elephant in the overflow population and shoots it. He has his photo taken standing beside it with his foot on it's head (or whatever it is they do in photos), and that is all. The locals, however, get the elephant. They cut up the meat to take back for their families, they get the hide, tail, feet, eyelashes and other bits to turn into curios and souvenirs which they can then sell to non-hunting tourists (and the hunter, if he wants a souvenir of the hunt other than a photo).

On the way back to camp the hunter may see a kudu or zebra or buffalo, and want to shoot that too. The Parks officer will pull out his notebook and advise how much it will cost the hunter, and the whole process starts again.

The benefit to the wildlife is that now the local people don't go out and indiscriminately hunt wildlife for food in the National Park - they have a vested interest in protecting the wildlife because they not only get finances in the community coffers, but they also get employment and food.

To illustrate how effective this program worked, during the 1980's ad early 1990's, when elephant populations were declining throughout Africa because of poaching, the countries that had this system of regulated hunting - Zimbabwe, Botswana and South Africa - were the only countries which had elephant populations increasing. In fact, the moratorium was released at one point for these countries to legally sell off their stockpiled ivory on the international market, with the profits destined to go to further conservation work in their countries.

God only knows what has happened to the wildlife in Zimbabwe in recent years. Now that tourism is effectively zero, I imagine the local people would have gone back to indiscriminant hunting of bushmeat to survive.

:(

Hix
 
I see, yet it always leads back to saying would you want that happening to you, what would be the core population of humans? Always comes back to the old saying " Animals have feelings too!"
I guess taking hunting away completely from Africa would probably damge the economy.
 
It's a well-known fact - if you want to save something, make it commercially valuable. Then people will throw money at it.

The one of the biggest problems facing wildlife today is the bushmeat trade. The best way to convince people to stop hunting themselves is to give them a good alternative - preferably one that encourages them to protect the wildlife.

Before Zimbabwe had implemented this program, the Parks officers regularly had to cull species that had become overpopulated, including elephants. The arrangement using American hunters that were willing to pay to do so seemed a much better idea.

Hix
 
yeah American game isn't really world known as much as African though..
 
What I think is deplorable in the States is the hunting opportunities where you pay to go in what is essentially a big enclosure (of several acres) and shoot some ungulate that the enclosure has been stocked with.

I recently posted a photo in the San Diego gallery of a Kamchatka Snow Sheep, and tried to find some information on Google as to it's status in the wild. More than 90% of the websites with information on this species were ALL hunting companies offering game hunts to Kamchatka where you can hunt this species as well as a variety of other Russian wildlife (including Kamchatka Brown Bears).

:(

Hix
 
Also saw on a doco once that the Kamchatka Brown bears have a serious poaching problem, for some reason poachers want the heart and liver.
 
Probably supposed medicinal properties. Or increase sexual stamina.

Hix
 
More than liver and heart, the gall bladder of bears is a highly sought item for TCM-and I'm pretty sure that's what was missing in said poached bears, too...

From what I heard, the wildlife situation in Zimbabwe is, like that of its human inhabitants, currenly really, really bad-especially in regard to the African Wild Hunting Dog.

About trophy hunting and big game hunting tourism: it depends on the individual case whether the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. In the case of some larger wild ungulates, among other Mountain Nyalas, Marco Polo Argalis, Siberian Ibex etc., it appears that well-controlled hunting tourism can help to suppor local in-situ conservation on the long run. The local native communities could thus benefit commercially from their local wildlife on a continous level-which would make it more profitable and desirable for them to keep the species alive, instead of wiping it out for a quick buck. Unfortunately, there are always the casual black sheep (and I'm not talking about argalis here...)involved, including corrupt and greedy local politicians, officials etc. and all too helpful native hunters (who sometimes deliberately drive the biggest and healthiest bucks out of the secured retreat areas of national parks for the shot...); keeping them under control isn't easy.

About North American trophy hunting: there are various North American big game species considered worthy trophies by hunters worldwide-Elk, Moose, Dall Sheep, Mountain Goat, Cougar, Grizzly Bear...
 
Surprises me to what lengths some people will go to, why would people purposely lead hunters to the ripe and healthy animals do you have a vendetta against the race?
 
I agree with Dragon, I don't see why people should go out, shoot an elephant and then hack it's face off for it's tusks. Makes me sick :mad:
 
Surprises me to what lengths some people will go to, why would people purposely lead hunters to the ripe and healthy animals do you have a vendetta against the race?

Does the term "trophy" ring a bell? Like the rather controversial zoo ranking in this forum shows, people strive for superlatives: the more impressive the trophy, the better. And would you tell a rich guy who has paid quite a lot of money to get there in the first place (and whom you wish to return): "Could you please just shoot the runt of the litter, so that other customers in the next years will have a worthy trophy?" This doesn't equal a 'vendetta", as the species as a whole might probably survive; yet it could result in a gradual decrease of size and vitality, as illustrated in some game species in overly hunted areas in, say, Europe.

@ashley-h: Then I hope that you will have enough pocket money to compensate the native community for elephant-caused damages and profit satbacks...
 
yet it could result in a gradual decrease of size and vitality, as illustrated in some game species in overly hunted areas in, say, Europe.

yeah, like in a zoo book I read once they advertised "Hunting has bred a new Tuskless breed of elephant"
Makhanas in the Asian elephant are getting more and more so common these days,
 
, like in a zoo book I read once they advertised "Hunting has bred a new Tuskless breed of elephant"

Poaching led to tuskless elephants becoming much more common. Legal hunting is now being used to remove tuskless elephants so the population will go back to what it was. Last time I herd it was about $5,000 to hunt a tuskless cow compared to a minimum of $20,000 to shoot a bull. The government then keeps the ivory. To shoot a bull with exportable (CITIES permit) ivory is double that. That does not make any differance to Australians as Bob Hawk banned the import of any elephant products even with CITIES permits as a vote grab.

I read a report on a tuskless ele hunt where they had to stalk several heards and a total of 400 elephants before they found a tuskless cow without a calf. They had to get within 10 m of heards of wild elephants and inspect them all, then make sure the one they were after did not have a calf. I am not keen on shooting an elephant but getting that close and spending that amount of time stalking wild elephants does sound like a lot of fun. I would not do it without a gun though as wild elephants are very unpredictable and kill a lot of people each year.
 
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