Trophy Hunting

Sun Wukong said:
So you do not support favouring one species, but one the other hand only complain about elephants being slaughtered? Where's your compassion for, say, pangolins, turtles or abalones?:confused:
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I only used elephants as an example, so no I don't favour them over other animals, because I still don't believe hunting is right, however I'm not saying you have to agree with me.
And you know what I mean by "hunting isn't right". There's a difference between a tribe killing one animal every now and then to keep them alive, as apposed to people going out and doing it for sport, which I feel is cruel and un-necessary.
 
ashley-h said:
And you know what I mean by "hunting isn't right". There's a difference between a tribe killing one animal every now and then to keep them alive, as apposed to people going out and doing it for sport, which I feel is cruel and un-necessary.
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So you assumed right away that I could easily determine that by "hunting" you merely meant sport hunting, yet at the same time excluded hunting for food (which happens more often than "now and then", btw)? Maybe by mind-reading? Right...

So what about hunters in the 1st World that hunt because they prefer to eat game once in a while? And is trophy hunting really not "right" if it helps conservation? Think about that for a while...

Personally, I consider hunting a primal and important part of human history, if not of the genus Homo itself. It should not be demonized, especially not because of lack of knowledge and experience or the nowadays all too common combination of nature estrangement and nonfactional animal "love". Nevertheless, technical progress and human population growth have made strict control of hunting in all its forms unavoidable, as unfortunate examples like the Peregrine Pigeon or Steller's Sea Cow illustrate the otherwise bitter consequences.
 
I think you'll find the name of the thread is "trophy hunting", which to me is sport hunting, so no you didn't need to "read my mind".
And you can give me all these reasons why you think hunting is right, but it's never going to change my opinion of it. I understand how you feel and I respect that, and I would appreciate you doing the same to my beliefs.
 
@ashley-h: Yet you explicitly wrote:

"(...)I think any type of hunting is cruel and not right." Maybe you should read what you wrote before-or read your very own mind first. ;)

" it's never going to change my opinion of it." Your loss; mulish inaccessibleness to reason and advice is certainly not an attitude I can respect or understand. Therefore, don't expect me to tolerate or even appreciate such a precast opinion/"beliefs".
 
Can't win can you?
We all have opinions, and mine might sound wrong to you and vice versa, shall we just stop arguing?
 
Alright guys you both have some good points, let's not let what happened on the supernatural thread as particular things are largely opinative.
 
For a start, I don't accept that we humans have a "hunting instinct"- if we were members of the order Carnivora maybe; but we are Primates; opportunistic feeders rather than instinctive hunters.

Secondly; the motivation of someone who goes out to hunt and kill an animal is no different to that of some hoon who throws a brick through a plate glass window - simply the joy of destruction. (I hunted a little bit when I was young and now I'm bloody ashamed of having done so!)
 
There are certain people who actually are destructive but don't want to hurt a living creature. I'm in touch with a so called "hoon or jerk" group in my school there quite nice but you are the ones that do stupid stuff. You know being careless smashing stuff etc.
I was surprised that one of them stood by me in a class debate, about animal rights. So I personally think that there is quite difference between a joy of destruction of seeing things be shattered compared to harming a living animal.
 
Ara - what about chimpanzees that have been known to hunt other primates when they get the chance, although rare there is a group of male chimps in one area that seem to throughly enjoy the hunt, It is actually quite a horrible scene to watch, they rip the monkeys apart alive and start eating them.

I hunt a bit, and I don't think I'm a hoon. Although I may feel different later in life but for me hunting has been a necessity, lived off rabbits for a short period of time when I was a child. I hunt feral animals. a butchered goat last my dog a while and saves alot of money with the equivalent in tinned food. I used to hunt pigs etc but stopped because well, things change and my dogs didn't like it that much. I don't waste it, does this make me a hoon?

I think that people that hunt can be divided quite easily into hunters for fun and for need, I do know of people that hunt alot for fun, don't agree with it, I've got an amazing pig dog, who has never seen a live pig, I don't agree with it, but the odd goat and rabbit, occasional fox, I don't see a problem with. Trophy Hunting is a different thing altogether, that's an ego thing. But even though I would prefer it done in other ways it has conservation benefits.
 
ashley-h said:
Can't win can you?
We all have opinions, and mine might sound wrong to you and vice versa, shall we just stop arguing?
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Once again, you're mistaken; it's not about "winning" anything here, ore merely arguing. I just pointed out that a prefabricated rigid mindset, stubbornly immune to any reasoning at all, is not something one should accept as given and tolerate. Our modern 1st World society appears to be very "tolerant"; but in fact we don't really tolerate and accept each other's opinion at all-we just play "oyster". Once an opinion contradicts your current mindset, a lot of people shut down and merely pretend to "tolerate" the other opinion, and want the other side to "tolerate" theirs. Yet in fact, neither tolerates each other-they just ignore one another and keep on doing what they did before. Procreative cooperation? Zero...

In one aspect, I have to contradict you, @dragon(ele)nerd, although it's nice to see that you want to intermediate: ashley-h hasn't brought up any really "good points"-she just stated a very generalizing opinion, merely based on her personal emotions. That's not of much use in a factual discussion.

@Ara: First of all, I never wrote humans have a "hunting instinct"; I just stated that hunting has been a primal part of human history. Palaeontological and archaeological findings as well as the mentioned chimp behaviour only confirm this.

Secondly, I agree with @Jakari and @dragon(ele)nerd: there is a difference between hunting for food and need, and joyful killing of animals without any purpose (and I would consider "trophies" as a somehow ambivalent purpose). The latter is clearly psychopathic behaviour.

Funny enough, both the trophy hunting and the critical rejection of hunting in general, are results of our modern affluent, 1st world society. With animal products provided by agriculture, hunting has been stripped off its primal exigency for many people. Now you can just buy prefabricated goods without having to face the animal the are made of. Yet some seem to miss the "thrill" of hunting-and try to compensate, may it be by shopping, collecting items, playing computer games-or trophy hunting. Others condemn hunting in general, yet ignore therebye both its deep primal rooting in human nature and reality - and the fact that there are still people out in this world that hunt for a living...
 
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Jarkari said:
although rare there is a group of male chimps in one area that seem to throughly enjoy the hunt, It is actually quite a horrible scene to watch, they rip the monkeys apart alive and start eating them.
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are you referring to a band of chimps in Sierra leone? I saw a few docos on them.
 
"Once again, you're mistaken; it's not about "winning" anything here, ore merely arguing. I just pointed out that a prefabricated rigid mindset, stubbornly immune to any reasoning at all, is not something one should accept as given and tolerate"

And I'm in the same boat as you by the looks of it. Can't you just accept my opinion? I have read your reasoning about being pro hunting, and although I can entirely see where you're coming from I feel that there are other ways to go about population control etc without just killing everything. And by "winning", I meant not being able to come to an agreement with you, as you will always tey and change my opinion, which to me is wrong. I haven't exactly been trying to make you stop eating meat or go anti hunting now, have I?
And I agree with you, Ara, although then there is the thing with Chimps and hunting, I just don't think we're equipped to eat meat as such. If it came to hunting it without weapons etc we'd be screwed.
 
A few decades back there was a hunter called Alexandre Siemel who would hunt jaguars in the Matto Grosso with a spear. I've seen the photos!
Let's see some of these "heroes" with their high powered rifles try that!
 
Secondly; the motivation of someone who goes out to hunt and kill an animal is no different to that of some hoon who throws a brick through a plate glass window - simply the joy of destruction. (I hunted a little bit when I was young and now I'm bloody ashamed of having done so!)
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I have herd of people usually teenagers who kill native animals because they can. This is illegal and unethical and they should be prosecuted.

I have always shot pest species to eradicate or control them. I started by shooting sparows on our farm and wiped them out and they have never returned. After that I shot rabbits, hares and foxes and fed the rabits and hares to the dogs. I now keep all the hares and rabbits I shoot and eat them myself. I also now travel to the Victorian high country and hunt Sambar deer. Hunting is nothing to be ashamed of and is a very good way to get organic free range meat that you know where it came from. Shooting foxes and feral cats is also heplful for native species.

If I eventually get to Africa I will also hunt there. I will be happy knowing I am sustainably harvesting animals which will be eaten as well as providing employment to locals. I dobut I would bring home any trophies other than photos.
 
Monty said:
If I eventually get to Africa I will also hunt there. I will be happy knowing I am sustainably harvesting animals which will be eaten as well as providing employment to locals. I dobut I would bring home any trophies other than photos.
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So you are shooting with your gun as well as your camera? If you do eventually go to africa which animals will you plan to hunt, this is just curiosity by the way
 
I also enjoy hunting in australia. i target any feral animal ranging from rabbits up to water buffalo and have no problem at all killing these animals. In 2004 and 2006 i spent some time hunting in the Katherine area of N.T. i was overwhelmed by the numbers of horses, donkeys, cattle, pigs and buffaloes i seen in the area. The damage they course to the edges of creeks has got to be seen to be believed. The natural flow of the creek is destroyed as these ferals come to drink. They flatten out the edges of the creek which allows the water to spread over a greater area each time they come to water. In the end the creek which might have been 3 metres wide becomes a large swamp.
there is a healthy and sustainable hunting industry in the Northern Territory supported just by people who are willing to spent a great deal of money just to shoot a big buffalo or boar.
 
So you are shooting with your gun as well as your camera? If you do eventually go to africa which animals will you plan to hunt, this is just curiosity by the way
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It would be a few years off, but any animals I hunted would be sustainable and the money I paid would support protecting the environment, animals and local jobs.
 
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