Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2012 #1

wild watch said:
. She still clings to humans tho, doesn't eat much and is terrified of Oumbie. Do you think that the zoo will move her again? is there a solution?
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As I said above, I can't see a realistic or positive solution to this. It is doubly difficult as she is genetically valuable, being the only offspring of wildcaught Eva, so she should be bred from if at all possible- but it seems an impossibility naturally with an adult male. If the young male Matadi had stayed in that group its just possible they might have mated by now as she was on good terms with him having been with him since he was born. But for obvious reasons he had to be removed.

If Asante eventually loses the amount of weight she lost previously, they may be forced to act again but seperation would seem the only option.:(
 
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leiclad20 said:
They really need to sort this gorilla group situation out - can't they just bring biddy into the group to take focus off her?
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I think you'll find that is the plan in due course, but it may or may not have the desired effect as one additional female may not be cause enough for Asante to relax any more than she does now. I do not think Oumbie is aggressive to her unduly. Any bites she gets may be out of frustration at her untypical behaviour, and the problem stems more because she is simply frightened of adult males- apart from Sekondi who was just a baby when they were first put together.
 
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IanRRobinson said:
For a collection specialising in primates, Twycross' record with gorillas has been pretty mediocre, far poorer than might have been anticipated.

I really wonder if it wouldn't be an idea to go out of Western Gorillas in the medium term.
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Very poor breeding-wise over the several decades they have kept them. However until several middle-aged adults died a few years ago, they had never lost any younger Gorillas, as some other zoos have.

I think they will always have them- in order to claim the ' exhibiting four Great Apes' ethos!
 
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...and just to top off the baby boom seems to be happening at the moment, The Ground Cuscus have got a new youngster :)
Spring is most definetly in the air!
 
I haven't seen the photo, but because they are marsupials cuscuses are born after a very short gestation (a matter of weeks) and then spend something like five or six months in the pouch before emerging to ride on the female's back.
 
Hmmm.. Another rip roaring success at Twycross zoo. The elephant calf was still born.(See Twycross website for their info release). Does any one think they should just give it up? release their breeding girls to zooz with better facilities and house non breeders?Till I went to Whipsnade a few yrs ago I didn't realise that elephants were such close and playful creatures.I've watched them for hours at both Chester and Whipsnade and been amazed by the contrast with those at Twycross. Hands up who thinks AI is a waste of resource badly needed elsewhere.
 
Personally, no, I do not think that Twycross should give up with their present elephant herd. It's true that they have had bad luck recently with the death of young V.J. and last week Tara's calf being stillborn, but remember what success they had in 1998 with the births of Tara and Karishma, Chester and Whipsnade have also had their share of bad luck with baby Asian elephants and nobody is suggesting that they give up, I do think however that Twycross should consider keeping a breeding bull of their own rather than rely on A.I. treatment, I consider the elephant accommodation at this zoo to be up to the job, especially since all the improvements have been made to it,and as for a herd of retired from breeding elephants, would it be correct to remove a retired elephant from her social group where she has lived for years and split her from her children and grand children, (Thi at Chester for example) just because she has finished having babies, I am not suggesting that Chester have plans to do this, please note.
 
They should either build a bull house ASAP or send the current herd to a zoo which houses a bull. The current situation is a waste of potential. AI is way too "high mantainance" to produce the number of calves that can be archieved through natural breeding. Bad management in Twycross already caused Tonzi and Minbu to become infertile. This must not happen to Noor Jahan or Tara.
Asian elephants are seriously endangered in the wild, the population is just barely self-sustaining in european zoos and adult females are bored to death when they have no calves to raise, so Twycross lack of action in this department is terrible and plain selfish.
 
Five star comment from Yassa as usual. Much the same can be said for their Gorilla management over the years, many parallels though some differences according to the species of course.
 
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It will be interesting to see what sort of state the park is in in 10 years time. There recent success (or lack of) with their anchor species, and worsening financial record does not bode well in a time when competition in the animal park arena is increasing.

I agree, they need to get a bull elephant in and do the job properly or just no bother. This AI has failed now twice in a few years and the ongoing procedures to do this without success just borders on cruelty.

Is there any news on how asante is getting on with oumbie and the other female gorilla? are things settling down? Another animal at the park whose upbringing and current state raises a few welfare eyebrows....
 
It will be interesting to see what sort of state the park is in in 10 years time. There recent success (or lack of) with their anchor species, and worsening financial record does not bode well in a time when competition in the animal park arena is increasing.

I agree, they need to get a bull elephant in and do the job properly or just no bother. This AI has failed now twice in a few years and the ongoing procedures to do this without success just borders on cruelty.

Is there any news on how asante is getting on with oumbie and the other female gorilla? are things settling down? Another animal at the park whose upbringing and current state raises a few welfare eyebrows....
 
leiclad20 said:
This AI has failed now twice in a few years and the ongoing procedures to do this without success just borders on cruelty.
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I wouldn't say it has 'failed' as both times it was successful, though the first calf later died and the other was stillborn. But the procedure is intrusive, costly and a bull elephant would do the job more competently and is always on hand for repeat matings if they are needed. 'Natural is best'! I also consider keeping females of breeding age without having any contact with a bull is unfair on them, and for any surviving calves that contact is thought to be beneficial too. But they are caught in a longterm problem over this situation of not keeping a male, and I think the current situation will just continue.:(

Gorillas- Asante still doesn't like Oumbie afaik and is never likely to, it remains to be seen what the outcome this time will be.
 
Pertinax said:
I wouldn't say it has 'failed' as both times it was successful, though the first calf later died and the other was stillborn. But the procedure is intrusive, costly and a bull elephant would do the job more competently and is always on hand for repeat matings if they are needed. 'Natural is best'! I also consider keeping females of breeding age without having any contact with a bull is unfair on them, and for any surviving calves that contact is thought to be beneficial too. But they are caught in a longterm problem over this situation of not keeping a male, and I think the current situation will just continue.:(

Gorillas- Asante still doesn't like Oumbie afaik and is never likely to, it remains to be seen what the outcome this time will be.
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Regarding the elephants, there is often a higher chance of producing a male calf through AI rather than a female. As you say, Natural is the best, there is more of a chance that a calf would be female and could stay in that herd.

If they keep four females on there on without a bull then it's not fair on them as females live with calves for years on end and a matriarch like the one at Twycross must be feeling that she is 'not doing her job right'.
 
Under normal conditions, that is, with a bull present from their subadulthood onward, Tonzi, Mimbu and Noorjahan would each have had several calves by now, while even Tara could well be rearing her 2nd.
 
Pertinax said:
Under normal conditions, that is, with a bull present from their subadulthood onward, Tonzi, Mimbu and Noorjahan would each have had several calves by now, while even Tara could well be rearing her 2nd.
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Does anyone else feel, as I do, that if Twycross can't or won't build a bull house, then those females that are cycling should be sent to groups where they will breed, and Twycross just keeps a group of non-breeding females within the EEP?

Or, as an alternative, perhaps the accommodation could be converted to house Black Rhinoceros, a species that is, after all, far rarer and more in need of captive breeding efforts.
 
IanRRobinson said:
Does anyone else feel, as I do, that if Twycross can't or won't build a bull house, then those females that are cycling should be sent to groups where they will breed, and Twycross just keeps a group of non-breeding females within the EEP?

Or, as an alternative, perhaps the accommodation could be converted to house Black Rhinoceros, a species that is, after all, far rarer and more in need of captive breeding efforts.
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I can see your point but I can't see them sending away there females because if they do try AI again and successfully breed a calf then it's a crow pleaser a baby elephant always pulls in the crowds. I would like Twycross to have a similar set up to Blackpool holding none cycling females, because let's face it the general public like an Elephant!

I could see Twycross' current elephant enclosure home to Rhinos but they'd have to have the facilities to separate them and if they were Black Rhinos two separate exhibits would/should be needed.
 
IanRRobinson said:
Does anyone else feel, as I do, that if Twycross can't or won't build a bull house, then those females that are cycling should be sent to groups where they will breed, and Twycross just keeps a group of non-breeding females within the EEP?

Or, as an alternative, perhaps the accommodation could be converted to house Black Rhinoceros, a species that is, after all, far rarer and more in need of captive breeding efforts.
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It would be far better if Twycross did that but then of course they would argue this is a 'family unit' of four females(with Karishma it was five but she had to go due to unruliness) which are either related or have lived together a long time, and so should not be split up.

Changing over from breeders to non-breeders is a complicated issue. I heard at one stage they might become the holder of young males instead of trying to breed in their current situation, but nothing further on that recently. Obviously they will always want to keep elephants and the ele. accomodation is now one of the best exhibits at Twycross. But there's no denying the breeding lives of these particular females is being /has still been wasted by the lack of calf production, compared to somewhere like Chester.

I would hesitate to advocate bringing a species like Black Rhino to Twycross- I do not think their breeding record with other comparable species(eles, gorillas etc) would warrant this.
 
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