Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2013 #3
- Thread starter labrat
- Start date
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Well if you think I was on about somebody who is no longer at the zoo,you are very wrong!
But as I said in my post I give,up trying to educate people as to what is going on at Twycross,as it would appear that many people just cannot handle the truth.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Some of us do want to know the truth, zoogiraffe. I still mourn the departure of one very experienced keeper who felt unable to stay once Misses Badham and Evans were no longer in charge.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
I mourn the departure of every keeper that I knew from my time on the TZA at the zoo,particularly given the fact that now there is only 1 keeper left that knows me from that time still left at the zoo.So in less than 3 years it means over 20 keepers that I knew have all left!!
Ricky was introduced to Jambo and came out of it looking like hell, but he was with Mongo etc when he died I think. I'm still sad about that, he was my favourite chimp.
Hi poor Ricky was not in with Jambo he was in with Mongo and Noddy and it was Noddy that finished him off if only they knew the chimps like the old keepers did then they would have known never to have put him in with Noddy and Mongo after all Ricky was Not a Fighter all they had to do was read the old diaries or ask an old chimp keeper O I forgot they had all left.
mazfc
Well-Known Member
I'll try this one more time, then I'm not saying anything else on the matter as I've got more important things going on!
AS I SAID previously, I'm not disputing the FACTS of what you're saying! I don't view Twycross through rose tinted glasses. Your opinions are usually well informed so I tend to respect them, as I hope you will respect mine.
My point is: I don't think zoochat is the place to point fingers at individuals. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I stand by my opinion.
Just to point out as well, that I don't know any of the people who manage/run twycross so I am not posting this in any vested way. I just don't like the individual finger pointing, by all means point out the faults, but as an organisation not an individual.
Mr. Zoo Giraffe, I like the rest of us who participate in the Twycross thread am very interested in what happens at Twycross, and zoochat to me is now the only way I get to hear about what is going on, the staff who I knew there no longer work at the zoo, and as I live 180 miles away from the place I am not able to visit as often as I would like, unlike some other interested members who live nearby, I for one would be extremely grateful if you continued to inform us of what is happening. As you can see, I also questioned Maz's post regarding what you recently informed us of, and I agree with what you have written, no disrespect to Maz, who is also entitled to an opinion on the zoo just like us, we are all very fond of the zoo and just like myself you were very frustrated at the way this zoo was being directed in recent times, I think there was enough bad feeling at the zoo at the time without bad feeling amongst zoo chat members starting, and yes, I guessed you were referring to another person still working at the zoo and not the person who resigned last Autumn, cheers.
There's one fairly major difference; most(though not all) of Monkeyworld's chimps, however humanised and desocialised, were received as younger animals and then integrated into larger groups before they were full mature. Whereas the Twycross chimps were all fully adult animals, some of them quite old, before the recent integrations started.
I believe there is a fine line that needs to be drawn here.
In the context of direct criticism,references to an individual, either by name or using that person's title, should be avoided.
Using the collective term 'management' (or similar reference) though, I think is still acceptable, even referring to a date for clarity's sake if need be. On the German Forums there are long very heated and critical discussions about the Director of the Berlin Zoos, who is repeatedly named. However I definately don't think that is a good idea for our UK zoos, and specifically Twycross.
Note for ZG. We do continue to be interested in the issues at Twycross though.
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zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Your points have been noted,and I think I had already stuck to them,but will try to make sure any future,posts about Twycross stick within what you have just laid out!I believe there is a fine line that needs to be drawn here.
In the context of direct criticism,references to an individual, either by name or using that person's title, should be avoided.
Using the collective term 'management' (or similar reference) though, I think is still acceptable, even referring to a date for clarity's sake if need be. On the German Forums there are long very heated and critical discussions about the Director of the Berlin Zoos, who is repeatedly named. However I definately don't think that is a good idea for our UK zoos, and specifically Twycross.
Note for ZG. We do continue to be interested in the issues at Twycross though.
I might even type up and post the Mission Statement that Twycross released in 2010,so that members can see if they are even close to achieving,any of what they set out in it!
'Never got round to it' is not a valid excuse. IMO she had a moral responsibility to prioritise getting all those Chimpanzees into social groupings in proper suitable housing, instead of allowing them to be kept for so long under conditions that were more typical of zoos in Third World countries, while spending on building newer enclosures for other animal species. Again, just IMO, the legacy of that has been the single worst outstanding issue at Twycross for many years and still isn't resolved fully.
While she should have integrated the chimps, the enclosures in the 60s,70s and 80s were fairly typical chimp enclosures in the UK. They were fine in miss Badham's eyes. The biggest mistake she made was not to give the zoo into new hands sooner. Then the new directors could do the new enclosures with a fresh mind when the enclosures initially needed doing.
Perhaps it was inevitable that their would be a casualty in the recent chimp rehousing/integration at this zoo, and poor Ricky would appear to be a victim of this, I agree what was said by another member that it is a shame that there are no long serving keepers still at the zoo who knew the animals personalities and characters very well who's opinions on this matter would have been invaluable. I am not making excuses for keeping the chimps in the old chimp row as I thought they were well past it and not fit to keep chimps in, but perhaps the reason why Miss Badham never got round to mixing these chimps together in larger groups was because she knew what the outcome could be, as what later it would appear, has happened to Ricky, it should be remembered that Miss Badham thought the world of those chimps, they were her family, yes, just as my cocker spaniels are to me, they were not just a number in a stud book and if one died or had to be put to sleep, so what.
They weren't fine in my eyes, even then...
Some Zoos in that era already had larger groups in open-style enclosures e.g. Chester- which could have acted as an example for Twycross. They did of course later build the 'Chimp colony ' building but that only benefited a very small % of their total chimp population so it only 'scratched the surface' I see similar comparisons, under a completely different management regime of course, with the cosmetic improvements they have made recently. People say- 'its a start' but is it really(?) when the major % of their Primates continue living where they are. Just for the record, I don't think most of the monkey enclosures there are actually bad, but they aren't very good either, while the breeding records for several of their rarer monkeys have been almost nonexistent for many years. The poorest IMO is the Orangutans (good breeders despite it though)- that's not a good enclosure in this day and age.
Why should they have retired sooner?, just because they kept going long after other people had sat back and just collected their pension does not mean they were not up to the job, they were both very fit and active right up to the end, and remember, they didn't draw large salaries and run up huge bills on expense accounts, they hardly drew any money out of the charity for themselves, their reward was living in the house in the middle of the zoo with all their animals.