I wrote a few thoughts about Boulas in the Longleat thread where this was first mentioned, and a bit more detail in the European Gorillas thread also.
Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2014 #1
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I wrote a few thoughts about Boulas in the Longleat thread where this was first mentioned, and a bit more detail in the European Gorillas thread also.
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
Poor Boulas, he certainly got about a bit, I had the pleasure of meeting him backstage when he first arrived at Twycross where he had Bongo and Biddy for companions. After the death of Bongo it was decided to place Biddy with the gorillas in the other newer gorilla house and send Boulas to the new gorilla facility at Longleat. I recall you stating at the time that you thought it very unlikely that Boulas would integrate with Keisho and his two younger brothers, of coarse you have been proved correct. My thought at the time was Boulas was sent away to free up completely Joe's gorilla house to make way for chimps that were desperately in need of better accommodation at this zoo, by sending Boulas to Longleat where there was no chance of him living in harmony with other male gorillas he was simply sent away to solve a problem, not ideal is it?
The problem for Boulas was he was a fully mature male who had lived with females a long time, and they are difficult to integrate with other males. It has been done successfully- when the other males are all much younger, but in Longleat's case there was already another younger silverback (Kesho) present.
I couldn't quite understand why Twycross took him in the first place- Belfast needed him to move as he wasn't breeding there( he was probably infertile) and EEP recommended his transfer to a 'retirement' situation- Twycross, having recently lost 'SamSam' sort of fitted the bill as they had room to house another male. I think it was a short-sighted decision on their part to accept him though, as if they not taken him and so had a second male on their hands, they could have freed up the whole house for Chimps, much earlier.
Its true Boulas was gentler than Oumbie and therefore a more suitable companion for Bongo and Asante but equally, his presence created stress for the other male Oumbie as they were living so close.
Boulas would still have been owned by Howletts/PL who presumably couldn't rehome him/didn't want him back either as they had nowhere for him except to live alone there too, as one or two of their other males are currently doing. So he went to the new Longleat 'group' instead. It was a difficult situation and I don't think anywhere was particularly at blame for the decision to move him to Longleat. It may have been an experimental move anyway, but I thought it was very unlikely (but not impossible) given his and Kesho's ages, that they would be able to integrate him with the others there.
His death evidently isn't related to any of that but it rather highlights a sad ending for him.
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IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Although I suspect it's a life story that is not that dissimilar to those of many adult male gorillas in the wild. Not all of them end up as silverbacks heading up their own family group; in fact logic dictates that rather few of them do.
IanRRobinson;777902 life story that is not that dissimilar to those of many adult male gorillas in the wild. Not all of them end up as silverbacks heading up their own family group; in fact logic dictates that rather few of them do.[/QUOTE said:Indeed.There are parallels there though I presume in the wild some sort of selection process is at work which means the most competent, strongest males are the group leaders and others stay out more 'in the cold'. Whereas in Zoos they don't have the chance beforehand to prove if they will be naturally good group leaders, or (if in the wild) would be more solitary-style males- in Zoos they tend to get chosen for their respective roles on the basis of genetics, availability and other factors. Its a form of artificial selection.
Either it didn't stay that way for long or the Facebook photos were from a flattering angle. The water was nowhere near "pristine clear" today and had a serious green (algae) tinge going on. I've seen it much worse -but it still wasn't good.
Fragments of thoughts from a visit today
I visited today with a positive mental attitude (honest) but it didn't last long. There were some positives, a few more negatives and a real kicker of a "reveal" at the end.
I was amused on arrival by the familiar appearance of the man standing at the end of the entrance road telling me to turn left (there's no other options
). I've long gone past worrying about whether he might be able to do something more productive for the day and view it as a quaint anachronism now (I've a soft spot for pointless traditions, the more absurd the better).
I was heartened that the place seems to have dispensed with the three or four people directing you where to part (money well saved) though on parking in the usual semi-quagmire wondered if they'd got rid of them in case the zoo was deemed liable for damaging a car by pointing the driver to a pothole or similar.
On entering the "entrance building" I did by usual ruing at how spectacular the left hand side aviary looked (ignoring the blowing broken netting) compared with how little (i.e. nothing) it adds to the visitor experience.
On entering the zoo I went to the toilets (don't worry I'm not going all Burroughs at this point) and was impressed by the Sun Beetles that have replaced the ants behind the sinks -they look good, as to fair do the toilets. Matter of fact, the toilets are some of the best (facility and styling) in any UK zoo -spoiled only by the fact that the large outlooking window now looks onto a deserted aviary with a broken piece of netting resting in a dried up pond feature.
Through the entrance proper, without any queuing (a little concerned that might be a bad sign, though it was near 1pm), I turned left to check out the new "Butterfly Forest". This is a good size and well landscaped inside, and reasonably well populated with butterflies. My only concern is that it was essentially large bubble wrap type plastic over a framework and I wonder how robust it might be in bad weather and high winds-then again, for all I know, it might be a summer only exhibit so this may not be an issue in reality.
On going back into what I consider the main zoo I noticed, frustratingly, that a number of historic pedestrian "rat runs" between enclosures have been blocked off leaving the visitor with less choice over how to wander. Maybe some of this was to direct people down the main avenue from the entrance huts (passing Meerkats on right) along which a "Conservation Way" sign has been erected and flagpoles with animal flags put along the sides. To be honest it looks okay but it does seem a little like they're putting resources into the zoos infrastructure (there are similar signs in other areas) before the zoo itself has been upgraded. I just hope these infrastructure changes last better than the most recent tranche of animal information boards which although good in the information provided are, by my memory, less than two years old and looking seriously worn and damaged.
Medium news is that the only quarantine complex, near the gibbon enclosures is in the process of being dismantled (a new enclosure is promised, but no details given. A seeming result of this is that monkeys have being playing "musical enclosures" again which is a little disorientating -for instance the block that until recently held the Mueller's Gibbon now holds L'Hoest Monkeys, Crowned & Spot-nosed Guenon and Crowned Lemurs. I'm sure they've gone out of something but my brain was spinning trying to remember "what had moved where from where and what used to be there" and couldn't get to a conclusion.
Something I noticed as I ate a picnic lunch near the old cafe (now used solely by keepers) was the relative youth of all the keepers I saw. Of around fifteen keepers seen throughout the day I didn't see anyone who looked much over thirty and the majority looked nearer twenty. I can see the benefit of this yielding keen, energetic, malleable staff but I hope they've got some experience left in their keeping team somewhere (maybe it was their day off).
After mopping up the monkeys I walked round the left-hand edge of the zoo. I quite like the mixed Grey Kangaroos & Emu (I think the enclosure works) and whilst some of the enclosures look tatty, to say the least, it was good to see that there was another Tufted Deer youngster (Twycross have done very well with these).
My walk around continued to be fairly positive seeing the young Gorilla and Elephant, even the more recently mixed Chimp group seemed active. I then came to the Zebra enclosure which, whilst suitable for inhabitants, just looks make-do and ugly -it may get better as it matures but I doubt it.
On a more positive note the Bonobo House is now open to the public again and I really like the renovations indoors. They've basically made all of the side opposite the Bonobos into a large, low-walled, indoor enclosure for the Giant Tortoises with skylights bring light in. It's a good size and together with the renovated outdoor area for the species means they're finally getting a good deal, housing wise.
I always enjoy the mini paddocks to the "Owl Corner" and then on to the Borneo Longhouse (which had many Cattle Egrets but not much else (species or number-wise). After inspecting the Penguin enclosure (not pristine clear as claimed) I noticed they've now got a second Brazilian Tapir.
This review is not intended to be comprehensive (except to highlight changes) so I'll cut to the punchline and not bore you with incidentals....
During our amble round myself and my wife noticed a large and robust looking framework on the site of (but much, much bigger than) the old Reptile/Tropical House. We were both quite excited by this and speculated what it might be for. My wife thought it looked like it would be suitable for a big climbing cat (Leopard, Jaguar), I thought this unlikely (though not impossible) given the Leopards have been fairly recently rehoused and thought and hoped it might be for some of the apes. It's proximity to the existing Bonobo House made me wonder/hope if it might be a second, run-off enclosure for that house. So I bounded into the Visitor Centre all positive and expectant to find out what it was for. Suffice to say I was disappointed and not a little incredulous (not in a good way, dear reader) with the answer -so much so that I double checked by asking another staff member in the gift shop. BLOODY LORIKEETS!!!!! (that's not an obscure species either). It should be ready mid-July apparently.
Whilst I've got nothing against Lorikeets (especially the Dusky ones, I love 'em) and I can appreciate that it's probably a means to an end (a cheap-ish new enclosure to market and charging people to feed them to generate more income for future improvements) I really do think the process of building new exhibits whilst most of the apes continue to live in archaic, below standard, housing has gone on for too long. If the zoo can't commit to housing the apes properly within some reasonably short time scale I really think the need to consider the ethics of the situation and consider whether it's time to go out of some ape species. I really mean this as I can't see them being in a position to house all their apes well for at least five or (probably considerably) more years.
BLOODY LORIKEETS!!!!
And some people think Marwell's got problems
.
I visited today with a positive mental attitude (honest) but it didn't last long. There were some positives, a few more negatives and a real kicker of a "reveal" at the end.
I was amused on arrival by the familiar appearance of the man standing at the end of the entrance road telling me to turn left (there's no other options
). I've long gone past worrying about whether he might be able to do something more productive for the day and view it as a quaint anachronism now (I've a soft spot for pointless traditions, the more absurd the better).I was heartened that the place seems to have dispensed with the three or four people directing you where to part (money well saved) though on parking in the usual semi-quagmire wondered if they'd got rid of them in case the zoo was deemed liable for damaging a car by pointing the driver to a pothole or similar.
On entering the "entrance building" I did by usual ruing at how spectacular the left hand side aviary looked (ignoring the blowing broken netting) compared with how little (i.e. nothing) it adds to the visitor experience.
On entering the zoo I went to the toilets (don't worry I'm not going all Burroughs at this point) and was impressed by the Sun Beetles that have replaced the ants behind the sinks -they look good, as to fair do the toilets. Matter of fact, the toilets are some of the best (facility and styling) in any UK zoo -spoiled only by the fact that the large outlooking window now looks onto a deserted aviary with a broken piece of netting resting in a dried up pond feature.
Through the entrance proper, without any queuing (a little concerned that might be a bad sign, though it was near 1pm), I turned left to check out the new "Butterfly Forest". This is a good size and well landscaped inside, and reasonably well populated with butterflies. My only concern is that it was essentially large bubble wrap type plastic over a framework and I wonder how robust it might be in bad weather and high winds-then again, for all I know, it might be a summer only exhibit so this may not be an issue in reality.
On going back into what I consider the main zoo I noticed, frustratingly, that a number of historic pedestrian "rat runs" between enclosures have been blocked off leaving the visitor with less choice over how to wander. Maybe some of this was to direct people down the main avenue from the entrance huts (passing Meerkats on right) along which a "Conservation Way" sign has been erected and flagpoles with animal flags put along the sides. To be honest it looks okay but it does seem a little like they're putting resources into the zoos infrastructure (there are similar signs in other areas) before the zoo itself has been upgraded. I just hope these infrastructure changes last better than the most recent tranche of animal information boards which although good in the information provided are, by my memory, less than two years old and looking seriously worn and damaged.
Medium news is that the only quarantine complex, near the gibbon enclosures is in the process of being dismantled (a new enclosure is promised, but no details given. A seeming result of this is that monkeys have being playing "musical enclosures" again which is a little disorientating -for instance the block that until recently held the Mueller's Gibbon now holds L'Hoest Monkeys, Crowned & Spot-nosed Guenon and Crowned Lemurs. I'm sure they've gone out of something but my brain was spinning trying to remember "what had moved where from where and what used to be there" and couldn't get to a conclusion.
Something I noticed as I ate a picnic lunch near the old cafe (now used solely by keepers) was the relative youth of all the keepers I saw. Of around fifteen keepers seen throughout the day I didn't see anyone who looked much over thirty and the majority looked nearer twenty. I can see the benefit of this yielding keen, energetic, malleable staff but I hope they've got some experience left in their keeping team somewhere (maybe it was their day off).
After mopping up the monkeys I walked round the left-hand edge of the zoo. I quite like the mixed Grey Kangaroos & Emu (I think the enclosure works) and whilst some of the enclosures look tatty, to say the least, it was good to see that there was another Tufted Deer youngster (Twycross have done very well with these).
My walk around continued to be fairly positive seeing the young Gorilla and Elephant, even the more recently mixed Chimp group seemed active. I then came to the Zebra enclosure which, whilst suitable for inhabitants, just looks make-do and ugly -it may get better as it matures but I doubt it.
On a more positive note the Bonobo House is now open to the public again and I really like the renovations indoors. They've basically made all of the side opposite the Bonobos into a large, low-walled, indoor enclosure for the Giant Tortoises with skylights bring light in. It's a good size and together with the renovated outdoor area for the species means they're finally getting a good deal, housing wise.
I always enjoy the mini paddocks to the "Owl Corner" and then on to the Borneo Longhouse (which had many Cattle Egrets but not much else (species or number-wise). After inspecting the Penguin enclosure (not pristine clear as claimed) I noticed they've now got a second Brazilian Tapir.
This review is not intended to be comprehensive (except to highlight changes) so I'll cut to the punchline and not bore you with incidentals....
During our amble round myself and my wife noticed a large and robust looking framework on the site of (but much, much bigger than) the old Reptile/Tropical House. We were both quite excited by this and speculated what it might be for. My wife thought it looked like it would be suitable for a big climbing cat (Leopard, Jaguar), I thought this unlikely (though not impossible) given the Leopards have been fairly recently rehoused and thought and hoped it might be for some of the apes. It's proximity to the existing Bonobo House made me wonder/hope if it might be a second, run-off enclosure for that house. So I bounded into the Visitor Centre all positive and expectant to find out what it was for. Suffice to say I was disappointed and not a little incredulous (not in a good way, dear reader) with the answer -so much so that I double checked by asking another staff member in the gift shop. BLOODY LORIKEETS!!!!! (that's not an obscure species either). It should be ready mid-July apparently.
Whilst I've got nothing against Lorikeets (especially the Dusky ones, I love 'em) and I can appreciate that it's probably a means to an end (a cheap-ish new enclosure to market and charging people to feed them to generate more income for future improvements) I really do think the process of building new exhibits whilst most of the apes continue to live in archaic, below standard, housing has gone on for too long. If the zoo can't commit to housing the apes properly within some reasonably short time scale I really think the need to consider the ethics of the situation and consider whether it's time to go out of some ape species. I really mean this as I can't see them being in a position to house all their apes well for at least five or (probably considerably) more years.
BLOODY LORIKEETS!!!!
And some people think Marwell's got problems
.IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
I do hope that your wife was driving home, as I fear you might have been in a volatile mood....
Sadly, I have to agree with you about the ape housing at Twycross. The as Orangs are probably the worst off, and I suppose would be the easiest to re-home.
It's such a shame. Chester and Paignton look well set for the future with their Orangs, but just look at the other holders in Great Britain -: Dudley in a another unlovely enclosure, and Colchester in one where too much money was spent on providing too little space.
I do hope that your wife was driving home, as I fear you might have been in a volatile mood....
Sadly, I have to agree with you about the ape housing at Twycross. The as Orangs are probably the worst off, and I suppose would be the easiest to re-home.
It's such a shame. Chester and Paignton look well set for the future with their Orangs, but just look at the other holders in Great Britain -: Dudley in a another unlovely enclosure, and Colchester in one where too much money was spent on providing too little space.
Which begs the question why don't ZSL get in on the act with Orangs? But maybe that's for another thread/forum!
Have I poked a sleeping lion with this one Ian?
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Don't forget Monkey World (not that they're a zoo, of course!) and Jersey, too. And haven't Blackpool recently improved their orang enclosure?
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
I confess that I'd forgotten both Monkey World and Blackpool. As far as Jersey is concerned, I was looking to make the point that if you wanted to simply drive to see Orang-Utans, the options in Great Britain are pretty limited.
Somewhat. Back in 1991, many of us felt that the wrong Great Ape left London Zoo; but turning back time doesn't seem to be an option in life...
Yorkshire Wildlife Park have orangutans on the collection plan and, ever the opportunists, I'm sure could put up a good enclosure pronto!
Somewhere to give Kibriah some Batu-free time would be nice.
Somewhere to give Kibriah some Batu-free time would be nice.
1. Bonobo House- I take it the renovations didn't involve the Bonobo quarters? Has the planned upgrade of their outside area happened though?
2. There's nothing new about this. Those Chimps in the old cages lived there for many years while the Zoo continued to grow around them and as recently as two years ago were still living in enclosures you might expect to find in a Third World Zoo.
Finally moving them was undoubtedly a major task and a good thing though it was grossly overdue. I would still rate most of Twycross' Ape Housing as substandard though, apart from the Bonobos and maybe the (now) single Gorilla group. The problem of course is cost- a brand new 'Lorikeet Landings' or whatever they call it will cost a fraction of a new Ape House (and of course they need more than one), plus its a new (different) attraction for visitors.
While this situation continues, the irony at Twycross of course is they still advertise their 'World Primate' tag so having some of the poorest Ape Housing in the UK is something of a double whammy.
For me, for the number of occupants, I wouldn't call the bonobos enclosure adequate - they are (usually???) split into two groups and there is only one typically-Twycross-sized outdoor enclosure. Admittedly the amount of climbing opportunities have improved in the last 6 years and the fact they now have straw or whatever on the floor makes the indoors look a bit less like a 1960s ladies toilets but it is poor bearing in mind their much trumpeted claim to be the only UK keepers of these animals.
I was being kind, it isn't brilliant I will admit, particularly as being split in two groups, which they usually are, means they have to share access outside.
They are in the process of building a new indoor house, and will then upgrade the outdoor one too. The building work is taking an awfully long time- afaik the Orangs are still at Chester(aren't they?).
They are due to return to Blackpool very shortly... should have been last week of May but it appears to have been pushed back slightly since then
If the departure date is near now, does anyone know if they have tried putting any of the Blackpool females with 'Tuan', so they can return to B. possibly pregnant? Their own male(Ramon) seems a non-breeder.
jacks zoo
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has previously been mentioned. From Twycross Zoos facbook page: We are very excited to announce the arrival of some new animals at Twycross Zoo! We now have three female nyala – Asia, Amira and Patti. These beautiful antelopes can now be seen in our African Plains exhibit along with our recently arrived zebra.
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