Gigit
Well-Known Member
What is the current set up with the orangs - still Kibriah with Kayan and Molly, and Batu with Maliku and Basuki? Thanks.
Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo News 2018
- Thread starter kiang
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littleRedPanda
Well-Known Member
They have been going for months now and will complete when the girls are good and ready
I have finally got around to posting a few thoughts after a recent visit to Twycross on 10/06/18.
The past
In the past I have never really enjoyed a visit to Twycross. I’ve always found it to be a zoo with some great species and an admirable breeding record, but predominantly a combination of a boring, uninspiring, depressing and downright frustrating experience.
Before June 2018, the last time I had visited was nearly 4 years ago in October 2014. I came away then thinking that, in a zoo full of primates, the butterfly walkthrough, elephants (outdoors), snow leopards and the flamingos were the only exhibits of any quality, the rest mostly being very poor, and I didn’t envisage visiting again for the foreseeable future.
There were so many of what you’d consider to be major enclosures, old and new, that I just found so poor…
The present
So, after visiting a few weeks ago, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I had enjoyed my day. The excellent big 3 new developments, i.e. chimp Eden, gibbon islands and giraffe house/paddock, since my previous visit have not only improved the overall average exhibit quality, but also dramatically improved the ’feel’ of the zoo by adding a certain new dynamism. It feels so much less like a grid full of small, poor, outdated, monotonous square enclosures in a flat, mostly empty, square field. It now has some character and has finally taken its first steps towards looking like a modern zoo.
My opinions of the amur leopard cage, lorikeet walkthrough, monkey cages, gorillas, Borneo longhouse, bonobo enclosure and penguin pool remain, but at least the elephants are leaving, the orangs have a bigger house and the chimps have a new home. I am sure that many of those enclosures listed above will be included in future development plans.
A few further points from my recent visit…
The foliage in the snow leopard enclosure had grown quite a lot since my last visit. I thought they would have kept in down to keep it looking like a rocky habitat. It doesn’t look bad, it’s just that personally I preferred it as it was. However, if that’s how they want it to look or if there’s a good reason for it, for example to give the animals more privacy, then fair enough.
There were a number of empty enclosures around the zoo. One by the tapirs and at least 2 or 3 more by the tufted deer, however I understand these may be sites of future development.
Chimp Eden. Wow, what an enormous improvement! Wonderful to see the chimps in there. I like how the zoo identified their weakest area and dealt with it in a big way.
The Jurassic Park-esque wall surrounding the outdoor area has received negative comments from some zoochatters, including from myself, but honestly when you’re there in person, fascinated by all the natural behaviour and social group interactions of the chimps in their new environment, you barely even notice it and forget it’s there. I think the outdoor area is smaller than it looks in photos and the climbing structures aren’t extensive, but who cares when it’s such a massive improvement on what they had before.
There was one chimp, who I think was the new male Kibale, that was displaying now and again. However, his displays weren’t hugely impressive and didn’t last long. The other chimps didn’t pay much attention to him. I don’t know how old he is, but I thought he looked like he’s got a bit of growing to do too.
With regards to the theming of the indoor viewing area, it’s very very plastic and average in quality, but I disagree with comments saying it would be better if they hadn’t bothered. I think the jungle theming creates a sort of ‘atmosphere’ while you’re standing there watching the chimps, so I think it manages to feel immersive despite the chimp indoor area being completely un-naturalistic.
The only problem is the narrowness of the path through the indoor viewing area. Fine if you get there early, but I imagine a nightmare later in the day, despite the windows being fairly large.
It will be interesting to see what they do with the old chimp enclosures. The ‘brick one’ by the gorillas looked vacant, the one by the prairie dogs (i.e the original gorilla enclosure) currently contains mara and coati, which seems quite an odd place for them. I didn’t see any chimps in the old enclosure by the nyala and the indoor area was closed, but I did see lots of fresh wood wool strewn around the outside, so I presume it was still occupied. I’d prefer that they demolish all the old enclosures, but if they do decide to keep them then let’s hope they do a better job of converting them for new occupants than they did when converting the ‘green mile’ cages for Amur leopards.
Something I noticed this time was the bad situation with the bonobos. They seem to be separated into two groups. It looks like each group has a small indoor area to themselves but are having to rotate for access to the outdoor area; not great during the hot weather at the moment. It would be great if another collection in the UK would go into holding bonobo (Yorkshire I’m looking at you).
Orangs. I couldn’t tell the exact group setup, but they appeared to be in two separate groups. They’ve done a decent job improving/extending the indoor areas, however, they still aren’t huge considering the number of orangs they have. They could really do with having another outdoor area as well, as they currently only have one.
To conclude
I was impressed, and pleasantly surprised. As has been discussed here and in previous threads the zoo still has a lot of major issues that need work, but I am looking forward to seeing what the future holds for them. And I think the more they stride away from their contentious history the better.
So yes, my opinion has changed for the better and I would like to visit again, but maybe in a year or two.
The past
In the past I have never really enjoyed a visit to Twycross. I’ve always found it to be a zoo with some great species and an admirable breeding record, but predominantly a combination of a boring, uninspiring, depressing and downright frustrating experience.
Before June 2018, the last time I had visited was nearly 4 years ago in October 2014. I came away then thinking that, in a zoo full of primates, the butterfly walkthrough, elephants (outdoors), snow leopards and the flamingos were the only exhibits of any quality, the rest mostly being very poor, and I didn’t envisage visiting again for the foreseeable future.
There were so many of what you’d consider to be major enclosures, old and new, that I just found so poor…
- Monkey and lemur cages: Very difficult to see the animals indoors and out. Outdoor areas are small, boring, indistinguishable, cuboidal cages with little foliage. Indoor areas are small, clinical-looking, tiled rooms.
- Amur leopard cages: Extremely ugly and uninteresting. An ok size but contain little foliage or decent climbing opportunities.
- Lorikeet walkthrough: Very badly thought out. Open to the elements. Most of the plants inside are dead/stunted through lack of light or water, as well as exposure to frost.
- Elephant house: Small, outdated and unfit for purpose.
- Borneo longhouse: Looks run down and forgotten about. I don’t really see the point of it. Is there supposed to be a conservation message of some kind?
- Gorilla enclosure: Outdoor area is small, stark and boring, with an obvious lack of climbing opportunities, cover and privacy.
- Old chimp enclosures: Were tiny and outdated, indoor and out. Lack of climbing opportunities.
- Orang-utan enclosure: Had a small indoor area. Only one small outdoor area.
- Bonobo enclosure: Very small outdated indoor areas, that look full to capacity. Small outdoor area.
- Penguins: Small land area, murky green water.
The present
So, after visiting a few weeks ago, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I had enjoyed my day. The excellent big 3 new developments, i.e. chimp Eden, gibbon islands and giraffe house/paddock, since my previous visit have not only improved the overall average exhibit quality, but also dramatically improved the ’feel’ of the zoo by adding a certain new dynamism. It feels so much less like a grid full of small, poor, outdated, monotonous square enclosures in a flat, mostly empty, square field. It now has some character and has finally taken its first steps towards looking like a modern zoo.
My opinions of the amur leopard cage, lorikeet walkthrough, monkey cages, gorillas, Borneo longhouse, bonobo enclosure and penguin pool remain, but at least the elephants are leaving, the orangs have a bigger house and the chimps have a new home. I am sure that many of those enclosures listed above will be included in future development plans.
A few further points from my recent visit…
The foliage in the snow leopard enclosure had grown quite a lot since my last visit. I thought they would have kept in down to keep it looking like a rocky habitat. It doesn’t look bad, it’s just that personally I preferred it as it was. However, if that’s how they want it to look or if there’s a good reason for it, for example to give the animals more privacy, then fair enough.
There were a number of empty enclosures around the zoo. One by the tapirs and at least 2 or 3 more by the tufted deer, however I understand these may be sites of future development.
Chimp Eden. Wow, what an enormous improvement! Wonderful to see the chimps in there. I like how the zoo identified their weakest area and dealt with it in a big way.
The Jurassic Park-esque wall surrounding the outdoor area has received negative comments from some zoochatters, including from myself, but honestly when you’re there in person, fascinated by all the natural behaviour and social group interactions of the chimps in their new environment, you barely even notice it and forget it’s there. I think the outdoor area is smaller than it looks in photos and the climbing structures aren’t extensive, but who cares when it’s such a massive improvement on what they had before.
There was one chimp, who I think was the new male Kibale, that was displaying now and again. However, his displays weren’t hugely impressive and didn’t last long. The other chimps didn’t pay much attention to him. I don’t know how old he is, but I thought he looked like he’s got a bit of growing to do too.
With regards to the theming of the indoor viewing area, it’s very very plastic and average in quality, but I disagree with comments saying it would be better if they hadn’t bothered. I think the jungle theming creates a sort of ‘atmosphere’ while you’re standing there watching the chimps, so I think it manages to feel immersive despite the chimp indoor area being completely un-naturalistic.
The only problem is the narrowness of the path through the indoor viewing area. Fine if you get there early, but I imagine a nightmare later in the day, despite the windows being fairly large.
It will be interesting to see what they do with the old chimp enclosures. The ‘brick one’ by the gorillas looked vacant, the one by the prairie dogs (i.e the original gorilla enclosure) currently contains mara and coati, which seems quite an odd place for them. I didn’t see any chimps in the old enclosure by the nyala and the indoor area was closed, but I did see lots of fresh wood wool strewn around the outside, so I presume it was still occupied. I’d prefer that they demolish all the old enclosures, but if they do decide to keep them then let’s hope they do a better job of converting them for new occupants than they did when converting the ‘green mile’ cages for Amur leopards.
Something I noticed this time was the bad situation with the bonobos. They seem to be separated into two groups. It looks like each group has a small indoor area to themselves but are having to rotate for access to the outdoor area; not great during the hot weather at the moment. It would be great if another collection in the UK would go into holding bonobo (Yorkshire I’m looking at you).
Orangs. I couldn’t tell the exact group setup, but they appeared to be in two separate groups. They’ve done a decent job improving/extending the indoor areas, however, they still aren’t huge considering the number of orangs they have. They could really do with having another outdoor area as well, as they currently only have one.
To conclude
I was impressed, and pleasantly surprised. As has been discussed here and in previous threads the zoo still has a lot of major issues that need work, but I am looking forward to seeing what the future holds for them. And I think the more they stride away from their contentious history the better.
So yes, my opinion has changed for the better and I would like to visit again, but maybe in a year or two.
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That's an interesting revue of Twycross from someone who has not visited for a while. Mostly I agree with all your observations. A few further comments.
1, Agree on the Amur Leopard cage converted from the old Chimpanzee Green Mile cages. It is very ugly as it is basically just those old cages with the partitions opened up and a few Christmas trees stuffed in the ground. But it suits the Leopards okay.
2. Borneo Longhouse- I presume'Mary Branker' after whom its named funded it for some reason. It seems completely out of synch with the rest of the zoo and semi-derelict/abandoned nowadays.
3. Orangs -are split into two groups; male Batu with female Maliku and their son, and older female Kibriah and her baby daughter and younger female Molly. This is because he pesters Kibriah and caused the death of her last infant so a wise decision but it means one group has to be indoors at any time.
4. Bonobos- -Two groups split has been like that a long time with them time-sharing the outdoors. They seem unwilling to allow any to go to another UK zoo as they would lose the cachet of being only UK zoo to have them.
5. Old Ape houses- gorilla and two chimp houses. The one near the Nyala still has the four chimps yet to be integrated into the main group. The indoors is closed off now that the main group is back on proper display in the new house, probably because its so antiquated in there. I think the best option would be to dismantle all three buildings as they look just what they are- badly out of date Ape enclosures- but maybe they will recycle them in other forms?
6. Kibale, the recent addition to the Chimp colony is striving to be dominant male I think- hence his frequent displays. He's not a big male particularly. In their video of going outside for the first time he's the one that 'tightrope' walks the firehose cable and then goes around with his hair on end and a big 'fear grin' as he explores. Raised hair in a male chimp is a sure sign he's dominant(or thinks he is)
7. New chimp building. Agree its excellent in virtually all respects, apart from that too -narrow public corridor. What were they thinking... This, the Gibbons and Giraffe enclosures have all significantly helped get away from the 'toytown zoo' feel that is Twycross. Hopefully more species will follow suit in future.
8. Agree about the empty and derelict enclosures dotted around. Not a good sign.
9. Agree about the Snow Leopard enclosure and noticed the same. It was designed with a rocky mountainside feel which is being lost if they allow the vegetation to take over.
1, Agree on the Amur Leopard cage converted from the old Chimpanzee Green Mile cages. It is very ugly as it is basically just those old cages with the partitions opened up and a few Christmas trees stuffed in the ground. But it suits the Leopards okay.
2. Borneo Longhouse- I presume'Mary Branker' after whom its named funded it for some reason. It seems completely out of synch with the rest of the zoo and semi-derelict/abandoned nowadays.
3. Orangs -are split into two groups; male Batu with female Maliku and their son, and older female Kibriah and her baby daughter and younger female Molly. This is because he pesters Kibriah and caused the death of her last infant so a wise decision but it means one group has to be indoors at any time.
4. Bonobos- -Two groups split has been like that a long time with them time-sharing the outdoors. They seem unwilling to allow any to go to another UK zoo as they would lose the cachet of being only UK zoo to have them.
5. Old Ape houses- gorilla and two chimp houses. The one near the Nyala still has the four chimps yet to be integrated into the main group. The indoors is closed off now that the main group is back on proper display in the new house, probably because its so antiquated in there. I think the best option would be to dismantle all three buildings as they look just what they are- badly out of date Ape enclosures- but maybe they will recycle them in other forms?
6. Kibale, the recent addition to the Chimp colony is striving to be dominant male I think- hence his frequent displays. He's not a big male particularly. In their video of going outside for the first time he's the one that 'tightrope' walks the firehose cable and then goes around with his hair on end and a big 'fear grin' as he explores. Raised hair in a male chimp is a sure sign he's dominant(or thinks he is)
7. New chimp building. Agree its excellent in virtually all respects, apart from that too -narrow public corridor. What were they thinking... This, the Gibbons and Giraffe enclosures have all significantly helped get away from the 'toytown zoo' feel that is Twycross. Hopefully more species will follow suit in future.
8. Agree about the empty and derelict enclosures dotted around. Not a good sign.
9. Agree about the Snow Leopard enclosure and noticed the same. It was designed with a rocky mountainside feel which is being lost if they allow the vegetation to take over.
10. Also noted your comment about the Lorikeet building. Its huge but rather open to the elements as you said. I just looked through the mesh without entering but the vegetation does look rather neglected in there too. Landscaping seems not to be Twycross' strong point... Not sure why such a gynormous barn-like construction was made either.
11. And the donor of the Longhouse is 'Brancker' with a 'c' I believe.
11. And the donor of the Longhouse is 'Brancker' with a 'c' I believe.
It concerns me slightly when large males are grouped with other orangs in small enclosures. The males have nowhere to go if they want to get away from the others and be solitary for a bit. Also the females/ youngsters have nowhere to escape to if they are suddenly being roughly treated or pestered. In rare instances this may sadly be what causes things to boil over and end in tragedy. However, during my visit, male Batu was playing very gently with his son whilst female Maliku was keeping a close on eye on them from up high.
If that is genuinely their stance then that is incredibly selfish and not at all in the best interests of the species or in the welfare of the individuals in their care, which should be their number one priority. Both of the indoor areas are very small and each group contained at least one or two very active youngsters who will grow very quickly (and apparently bonobos don't tend to leave their mothers until 6-7 years old). A very bad situation.
The only zoo I can think of that would likely go into holding bonobo at the moment would be Yorkshire Wildlife Park, and that's roughly 80 miles away from Twycross; hardly two places in close competition. I also can't ever recall seeing Twycross advertise the fact they have the only bonobo in the UK in any of their publicity. And I don't think that bonobo are much of a deciding factor for most members of the public when considering whether to visit a zoo.
It makes sense to have another holder in the UK, otherwise one of the groups may have to be shipped to mainland Europe or further afield.
This is the animal who I think is Kibale. He only started to get boisterous once he saw that food had been put out. While the others were busy foraging outside, he stayed behind a safe distance away in the tunnel where he could bang the sides and make the most noise. There was no charging or physical dominance towards the others.
Is there already an alpha male at Twycross? Is it one of the 4 yet to be integrated to the main group? Is Kibale in for a shock when he meets them?
Found this..
"In July 2007, Twycross Zoo dedicated a new exhibit to Brancker in recognition of her lifetime commitment to both Twycross and animal welfare. The Mary Brancker Waterways and Bornean Longhouse features a walk-through exhibit with waterfowl and Bornean birds and turtles, and educational material which explains how people live in traditional longhouses in Borneo. An enclosure for Scottish wildcats is also included. The official opening of the exhibit by Brian Blessed and the Malaysian High Commissioner, His Excellency Datuk Abd Aziz Mohammed, took place on 24 July 2007. An evaluation in 2008 showed that the exhibit had been a 'hit' with visitors."
Mary Brancker - Wikipedia
Wikipedia isn't the most reliable resource but it doesn't sound like Mary Brancker funded the Borneo Longhouse. Either way, it's sad that it seems to be a waste of money.
Jambo, the chimp with alopecia, is still just about the alpha in the main group, though Kibali sure as heck is trying his best. The alpha in the smaller group is actually the lone female Samantha, and that is a) due to the fact that Danny the former alpha was sent to the main group prematurely and died there and b) the three males she lives with are (all?) castrated. Tommy I THINK is trying his luck but as soon as the four get introduced to the main group it is hoped that Samantha will back down as she knows Jambo from previously living with him. If Sam backs down then the intros should run smoothly as the three boys living with her aren’t the toughest of characters....
When I visited a couple of months ago now, Kibale was doing a lot of displaying at Jambo and had caused a nasty bite on his wrist(see my photo) I think Kibale will end up as the dominant male. I think the smaller group (or what's left of it now) should integrate okay given I too think all three of the males in it are castrated. I wonder how long before they transfer them.
Orangutans- Batu seems to have a different relationship with Maliku than he does with Kibriah. It seems unlikely she will be kept with him full-time anymore is my guess.
Bonobos- they certainly used to promote them being the only ones in the UK. Also the only UK zoo with the 'four species of great ape' though if some Bonobos left it would not change that status.
Borneo Longhouse- I have no idea how this unusual exhibit came about apart from that official explanation. Seems so out of place and now ten years on, largely a non-exhibit too.
Bonobos- they certainly used to promote them being the only ones in the UK. Also the only UK zoo with the 'four species of great ape' though if some Bonobos left it would not change that status.
Borneo Longhouse- I have no idea how this unusual exhibit came about apart from that official explanation. Seems so out of place and now ten years on, largely a non-exhibit too.
The remaining Elephants are staying until the end of the Summer Twycross Zoo elephants stop packing their trunks for the summer
That’s great news for visitors, as elephants are an incredible species to just enjoy. But I do worry if this may make integrating the group back together in Blackpool harder? That said, elephants have been proven to be very loyal animals so fingers crossed they’re all happily back together soon.
I doubt it will affect their reintegration at Blackpool much, its only a few months after all- provided they are able to move them okay when they are ready to try it.
Does anyone here know what's happened to the Capybara? I only just noticed they are no longer shown on the zoo's website and are also not listed on the ZTL current inventory for Twycross....
I was wondering the same thing. Didn't see any sign of them on my visit last week. It would appear they are no longer on show / have left the collection.
I`d say it depends - if Tara, Minbu and Noor Jahan were closely bonded then the seperation shouldn`t be a problem. However, these 3 are not related, and unrelated female elephants, even if they have lived together for many years, do not necessarily form close bonds. Often there is quite a lot of hostility. Maybe someone knows more about the social relationships within the Twycross herd?
Agree, I do not know how bonded they all were at Twycross. I know some unrelated female Elephants don't bond, much like unrelated Gorilla females. But I guess they will only find out if there's any breakdown in relationships after they do finally move the last two.
