Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo should lose it's licences

E

Eddy

Member
It pains me to say that this zoo now needs to be shut down. It has strayed too far away from the ethics that Molly and Nat started the Zoo and ran for 50 years. Today they would turn in their grave. I came back to vist the zoo were I was an elephant keep some 40 years ago.
The enclosures are dirty and in a poor state of repair. The pools are green and full of green allege. The practise of putting a food substitute on the shelve in the primate houses that the public take as un cleaned poo along with the general poor state of cleaning of the sleeping quarters. Weeds in gutters and all over the whole site is a far cry from the old manicured site with rose borders. Not one of the animals looked happy and I have never seen keeper with such low morale. I trust that the next zoo inspection will withdraw the licence. Although there might be families in numbers coming through the gate the welfare of the animal must take president. Gimmicks like plastic dinosaurs have nothing to do with conservation or breeding. All involved with the management of this once great zoo should now hang their heads in shame.
 
Eddy said:
It pains me to say that this zoo now needs to be shut down. It has strayed too far away from the ethics that Molly and Nat started the Zoo and ran for 50 years. Today they would turn in their grave. I came back to vist the zoo were I was an elephant keep some 40 years ago.
The enclosures are dirty and in a poor state of repair. The pools are green and full of green allege. The practise of putting a food substitute on the shelve in the primate houses that the public take as un cleaned poo along with the general poor state of cleaning of the sleeping quarters. Weeds in gutters and all over the whole site is a far cry from the old manicured site with rose borders. Not one of the animals looked happy and I have never seen keeper with such low morale. I trust that the next zoo inspection will withdraw the licence. Although there might be families in numbers coming through the gate the welfare of the animal must take president. Gimmicks like plastic dinosaurs have nothing to do with conservation or breeding. All involved with the management of this once great zoo should now hang their heads in shame.
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Sorry to ask this, but in a recent article on the zoo's 50th anniversary,the founders were referred to as Nathalie Evans & the late Molly Badham. So does 'Nat' even have a grave to turn in? Or was the article factually inaccurate?
 
A strange post indeed... whilst Twycross may have its faults, the zoo seems to have turned a real corner recently. Using the dinosaur attraction as a reason to close it is completely ridiculous - does that mean Blackpool Zoo should also close? What about the world-famous Chester Zoo?

Off the top of my head I can think of one UK zoo that probably deserves to lose its licence, but it sure ain't Twycross!
 
Sand Cat said:
A strange post indeed... whilst Twycross may have its faults, the zoo seems to have turned a real corner recently. Using the dinosaur attraction as a reason to close it is completely ridiculous - does that mean Blackpool Zoo should also close? What about the world-famous Chester Zoo?

Off the top of my head I can think of one UK zoo that probably deserves to lose its licence, but it sure ain't Twycross!
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That's what i thought and surely he's not suggesting the elephants had better living conditions 40 years ago!?!
I might add that i hate the idea of dinosaurs in zoos, as i've said elsewhere, but it's about the only thing i can agree on! But if they help the zoo survive, i dont have to look at them!
 
a little of an over-the-top reaction methinks. The zoo should lose its licence and be closed down because there are weeds there, because they have fake dinosaurs, because the public can't tell what food is (!), because the animals "look unhappy"? Perhaps turn your attention to somewhere like, I don't know, South Lakes instead.
 
pipaluk said:
Sorry to ask this, but in a recent article on the zoo's 50th anniversary,the founders were referred to as Nathalie Evans & the late Molly Badham. So does 'Nat' even have a grave to turn in? Or was the article factually inaccurate?
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Miss Evans lives in her bungalow near the zoo.
 
Eddy said:
It pains me to say that this zoo now needs to be shut down. It has strayed too far away from the ethics that Molly and Nat started the Zoo and ran for 50 years. Today they would turn in their grave. I came back to vist the zoo were I was an elephant keep some 40 years ago.
The enclosures are dirty and in a poor state of repair. The pools are green and full of green allege. The practise of putting a food substitute on the shelve in the primate houses that the public take as un cleaned poo along with the general poor state of cleaning of the sleeping quarters. Weeds in gutters and all over the whole site is a far cry from the old manicured site with rose borders. Not one of the animals looked happy and I have never seen keeper with such low morale. I trust that the next zoo inspection will withdraw the licence. Although there might be families in numbers coming through the gate the welfare of the animal must take president. Gimmicks like plastic dinosaurs have nothing to do with conservation or breeding. All involved with the management of this once great zoo should now hang their heads in shame.
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It is eighteen months since I last visited the zoo, and yes I certainly agree since Miss Badham and Miss Evans retired the general appearance of the place certainly declined, not even enough gravel on the pathways at times, in fact on my last visit I would describe the zoo to be shabby in parts. The new boss has only been there since last Autumn, and from what I have seen on here they are making improvements on a small scale at the moment, so I think we should be patient and hopefully things will greatly improve in the long term.
 
I never posted this to get into long debate about the aesthetics or the merits of adding attractions to help bring in family's. The point that I was making is that the core principal that breeding in the best possible enclosures were the reason Twycross gained it's reputation worldwide.
If new enclosures have stone cladding falling off them, or tiles are broken or missing then this is just plain bad management. If gutters are completely blocked with foot high weeds along their entire length, or enclosures that are tired and unkept. The point was that vast sums are spent on none animal exhibits at their expense. I counted over forty species that are no longer there and only four new species and one of those as Ferrets. Big deal that they have a new Snow Leopard enclosure, but that is going the same way. The animals should come first then the paying public. I am very glad to hear that Nat is still alive and living near by. Ask her view. Giving Elephants more space dose not make their lives more enriched.
 
Eddy said:
I never posted this to get into long debate about the aesthetics or the merits of adding attractions to help bring in family's. The point that I was making is that the core principal that breeding in the best possible enclosures were the reason Twycross gained it's reputation worldwide.
If new enclosures have stone cladding falling off them, or tiles are broken or missing then this is just plain bad management. If gutters are completely blocked with foot high weeds along their entire length, or enclosures that are tired and unkept. The point was that vast sums are spent on none animal exhibits at their expense. I counted over forty species that are no longer there and only four new species and one of those as Ferrets. Big deal that they have a new Snow Leopard enclosure, but that is going the same way. The animals should come first then the paying public. I am very glad to hear that Nat is still alive and living near by. Ask her view. Giving Elephants more space dose not make their lives more enriched.
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What timescale are you referring to when you say 40 species have departed? I know a few have gone in the last couple of years but I doubt it anything like that many! As for the dinosaurs, I think they're probably a necessary evil, something like that will attract more visitors in exchange for a one-off investment, hopefully if they are popular then the extra income they generate can be spent on improving animal enclosures and/or bringing in new species.

At the end of the day, a zoo is a business like it or not, and Twycross seem to be doing a decent job of creating new attractions and improving the conditions for the animals it has already got, on a modest budget. For that I think they deserve our support.

Mind you, I think its telling that the zoo is under attack from someone who has seemingly joined ZooChat just to criticise Twycross - axe to grind?
 
Eddy said:
I never posted this to get into long debate about the aesthetics or the merits of adding attractions to help bring in family's. The point that I was making is that the core principal that breeding in the best possible enclosures were the reason Twycross gained it's reputation worldwide.
If new enclosures have stone cladding falling off them, or tiles are broken or missing then this is just plain bad management. If gutters are completely blocked with foot high weeds along their entire length, or enclosures that are tired and unkept. The point was that vast sums are spent on none animal exhibits at their expense. I counted over forty species that are no longer there and only four new species and one of those as Ferrets. Big deal that they have a new Snow Leopard enclosure, but that is going the same way. The animals should come first then the paying public. I am very glad to hear that Nat is still alive and living near by. Ask her view. Giving Elephants more space dose not make their lives more enriched.
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I've been visiting Twycross for over 15 years and at no point were 'breeding' or 'best possible enclosures' phrases I would associate with this zoo!

The zoo certainly seems to have been mismanaged, but the management has just recently changed and the zoo is visibly improved in a very short space of time.

And I also question your figures. The length of time that has seen 40 species leaving has seen far more than four species arrive.
 
Maguari said:
I've been visiting Twycross for over 15 years and at no point were 'breeding' or 'best possible enclosures' phrases I would associate with this zoo!

The zoo certainly seems to have been mismanaged, but the management has just recently changed and the zoo is visibly improved in a very short space of time.

And I also question your figures. The length of time that has seen 40 species leaving has seen far more than four species arrive.
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I have only been visiting Twycross for about 5-6 years, but by the look of the enclosures, many are 30 plus years old, i don't think they would have been considered the best even then!
As far as zoos losing species goes, it drives me mad, but in some cases e.g London (space) its understandable to a degree. I dont think that's a case for a zoo losing its licence as suggested. Whilst Twycross has lost several major species in my time visiting, it has definitely gained at least 5 mammals, although they may have been there 40 years ago- striped hyena, dik dik, snow leopard, coati, bush dog. Did they have Bonobo 40 years ago?
 
Giant Anteater, Red Kangaroo, Tiger, Lion, Giraffe, Porcupine, Squirrel Monkey, 8 types of Falcons, Malayan Tapir, Red Faced Uakari, Red Howler, Capuchin, Brown Spider, Proboscis, Cassowary, Zebra, Emu,
Lama, Bob cats, Cheetah, Sea lion, Sarus Crane, Crown Crane, Marabou Stork, Sifaka, African Elephant, Alligator, Iguana, Cow, Pig. All no longer kept.

There must be at least the same number of birds from the old walk through aviary plus the same number from the old Tropical house.

Granted new exhibits are Snow Leapard, Bats, Crane, Dhole, Ferrets.

All I would say on this is ask to see stock lists from say 40,30, 20, years ago and the present one.

Please don't criticise with jibs like rose colored glasses. Healthy debate. I am not playing down the role none animal draws help the finances of a zoo, going back 40 years we had Donkey rides and Model Railway. exhibition.
 
If you honestly think that only 5 new species have arrived at Twycross since 1985, when the proboscis monkeys left the collection, you really must have an axe to grind.
 
Maybe if there is any present keeper on here from the zoo now they might like to comment. The ones I spoke to agreed with me. Ask past keepers.
Walk around the grounds, look at each enclosure.
 
Eddy said:
That was all I could see, maybe you could list some.
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Off the top of my head (sticking to mammals and excluding a few that have arrived and since gone again, like Brush-tailed Rock Wallabies, Mhorr Gazelles and Aardwolves) the following have all arrived since I've been visiting, so starting long after the Proboscis left:

Snow Leopard
Amur Leopard
Ring-tailed Coati
Bush Dog
Dhole
Bat-eared Fox
Kirk's Dik-Dik
Vicuna
Francois' Langur
Michie's Tufted Deer
Red-bellied Lemur
Crowned Lemur
Red-necked Wallaby
Grey Ground Cuscus
Northern Yellow-throated Marten
Linne's Two-toed Sloth
Seba's Bat
Syrian Striped Hyaena
Lesser Spot-nosed Guenon
Roloway Guenon
Lowe's Guenon
L'hoest's Guenon
Red Titi

Plus various domestics and probably quite a few more if I thought longer about it.

EDIT: You're right to say a lot of species have left/died out, and I think you're probably equally correct to say the overall collection size has declined (as it has at most zoos) but to suggest such a tiny number of new arrivals is wrong.
 
Eddy said:
All I would say on this is ask to see stock lists from say 40,30, 20, years ago and the present one.
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That can be said to be true for any zoo in the UK,I can remember the old monkey house at Chester,in which you could see over 20 species in just the house,now they don't have 20 species of primates in the zoo,So in that case from what you are saying every zoo in the UK is going down hill and should be closed!!!!!!!!!!
 
You can`t seriously claim that the animals were housed under better condition when the original owners were still there. Maybe the lawns and paths were kept in a better condition, but the big big problem in Twycross right now is that too many of the enclosures have not been updated in the last 2 or more decades and that new cages were built just like the old ones - way too small and not up to modern animal welfare standards. Ms. Evans and Ms. Badham surely loved their animals, but they kept them in exhibits that are just horrific from today`s point of view. The last chimps were just moved out of the infamous "Green Mile" in 2012!!! And I`m not even starting on the tiny gibbon and monkey indoor cages that are still in use today. The new management really improved a lot in the last months, by moving all chimps out of the oldest cages and (as important) putting them into larger groups to better fulfill their social needs, and by upgrading the old chimp cages for smaller animals that needed more spacios accommodation (leopards in the chimp row, siamangs in another chimp cage). Heck, the new management even got a few new, rather modern enclosures ready in a short time (open-topped enclosure for De Brazza monkeys and lemurs). That is a hell of a lot of archievement!!
If you think the cages are dirty ( do you complain about feces or do you confuse enrichment with "dirt"?) and the animals don`t get the care they need, you should go back a few times and see if this is really the norm.
 
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