Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo should lose it's licences

On my first visit to Twycross (2008 I think) I was shocked that something calling itself the world primate centre kept them in such conditions, depressed by it and was not in a hurry to go back. It was only on my most recent visit last month that I really felt that things are turning a corner.

There's still a lot to do to eradicate the inadequate enclosures that MUST be the legacy of the original owners. The new management deserve time to build on a great start. I certainly wouldn't say 'not one animal looked happy', my favourite monkeys look very happy in their new outdoor enclosure so that's at least 3 very happy animals!

It's a pity you weren't trying to get something done before instead of knocking it just when things seem to be improving.
 
OrangePerson said:
I certainly wouldn't say 'not one animal looked happy', my favourite monkeys look very happy in their new outdoor enclosure so that's at least 3 very happy animals!
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Statments like "all animals looked unhappy" say a lot more about the mood of the observer then about the mood of the animals. It really isn`t as easy as just looking at an animal to know if it is *happy*.
 
zoogiraffe said:
That can be said to be true for any zoo in the UK,I can remember the old monkey house at Chester,in which you could see over 20 species in just the house,now they don't have 20 species of primates in the zoo,So in that case from what you are saying every zoo in the UK is going down hill and should be closed!!!!!!!!!!
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If you were to list all the species that were at London forty years ago that are no longer there you would get writers cramp, the same could be said about Edinburgh. The fact that these zoos currently hold less species than what they did forty years ago does not necessarily make them worse, it could be said it makes them better, I agree with Eddy though when he states there is no excuse for large weeds growing in gutters, crazy paving falling off walls etc, these are minor maintenance problems that can be resolved at next to no cost, sorry to hear staff morale is low at Twycross at present, after all the trouble they had in recent years I am not surprised, hopefully time will be a great healer.
 
I would also like to say that in a time when a lot of U.K. zoos have reduced the number of species held in their collections in recent years, this has enabled the species remaining to live in better, more spacious enclosures. There is, however, always one exception to the rule, for anyone who didn't know better, if they read this zoo's publicity leaflet or the list of species held in the guide book, they would be forgiven for thinking they would be visiting a place the size of Whipsnade or Longleat, when unfortunately the opposite is the case.
 
Maguari said:
I've been visiting Twycross for over 15 years and at no point were 'breeding' or 'best possible enclosures' phrases I would associate with this zoo!
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I've been visiting there a lot longer than that, and would totally agree!


A number of people on here seem to associate the 'glory days' of Twycross with the previous owners, but all the unsuitable, and ugly buildings that are there now were created during their tenure in the first place, as were the humanisation and non-breeding problems some of the large primates suffered from for many years. Cosmetically the grass may have been more neatly trimmed then etc but IMO Twycross has always had these major problems since its inception.
 
Yassa said:
Statments like "all animals looked unhappy" say a lot more about the mood of the observer then about the mood of the animals. It really isn`t as easy as just looking at an animal to know if it is *happy*.
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I don't think any animals at Twycross Zoo are any 'happier' or 'unhappier' than anywhere else- they're all well cared for and well fed- the enclosures for some of them may be rubbish but I doubt that changes their 'mood'. As I've said before, I'm not sure if animals can be 'happy'.
 
Yassa said:
Ms. Evans and Ms. Badham surely loved their animals, but they kept them in exhibits that are just horrific from today`s point of view.
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And the legacy remains- that is Twycross' continuing problem to this day.
 
I've resisted commenting on this thread since it first went up as I feel the original point was ridiculous. I'm not the biggest fan of Twycross anymore but I can see that they are doing all they can to improve on a shoe string budget. Yes, they've lost some charismatic species recently but the giraffe and lion enclosures definitely needed an overhaul and as such are far more suited size-wise for the camels and hyaenas, even if they're still not perfect. I also approve of the down-sizing of the collection and current improvements.
It's still not a place I feel I want to visit (as it stands now) but in a couple of years it may well be a lot better than it ever has been before. I understand that they need to get some more animals in but I'm not going to say it needs to be closed down, it's a place in transition and I'm looking forward to the future. It may well be a collection that I may return to sooner than I thought.

And as an aside, there are plenty of threads from the past two or three years bashing Twycross but nearly all the recent discussions are of a much more positive note!
 
Pertinax said:
I've been visiting there a lot longer than that, and would totally agree!


A number of people on here seem to associate the 'glory days' of Twycross with the previous owners, but all the unsuitable, and ugly buildings that are there now were created during their tenure in the first place, as were the humanisation and non-breeding problems some of the large primates suffered from for many years. Cosmetically the grass may have been more neatly trimmed then etc but IMO Twycross has always had these major problems since its inception.
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I appreciate an respect what you have said,as I nearly always do with everything you post, however:) yes, I agree a lot of the enclosures at the zoo date back to the previous directors, when they retired at an age when most people would have been retired for decades, the new direction was in a sound position to take this zoo into a new era, new blood, new ideas and plenty of money in the bank to make it all possible, unfortunately this did not happen as has been well documented on various threads regarding Twycross. And as for the humanising of great apes, yes of coarse this did take place, you could not have trained chimps to do television commercials without this taking place, again another era, I can remember in the early seventies a pet shop near to my junior school having a chimp for sale, anybody with the money could have walked into the shop and bought it,Although today I appreciate and agree with apes not being used for television advertising, I think we must remember that if it had not been for the Brook Bond tea adverts using chimps supplied by Molly Badham then perhaps there would never have been a Twycross Zoo for us to visit and discuss on Zoo Chat.
 
Brum said:
And as an aside, there are plenty of threads from the past two or three years bashing Twycross but nearly all the recent discussions are of a much more positive note!
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Who knows, maybe in 2 or 3 years we might have positive discussions about South Lakes! :p
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Who knows, maybe in 2 or 3 years we might have positive discussions about South Lakes! :p
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I highly doubt that, 2 or 3 years time we might be discussing the demise of South Lakes because all the stock has either escaped or been eaten by something else in the park! :p
 
Brum said:
I highly doubt that, 2 or 3 years time we might be discussing the demise of South Lakes because all the stock has either escaped or been eaten by something else in the park! :p
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Well, 2 or 3 years ago we expected Twycross never to hit 50, and to have been run into the ground by Susie Boardman! So all it would take is a certain man leaving South Lakes...... ;)
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Well, 2 or 3 years ago we expected Twycross never to hit 50, and to have been run into the ground by Susie Boardman! So all it would take is a certain man leaving South Lakes...... ;)
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The difference being that Mrs. Boardman was an employee of the East Midlands Zoological Society, Mr. Gills owns the South Lakes Wild Animal Park himself.
 
TARZAN said:
The difference being that Mrs. Boardman was an employee of the East Midlands Zoological Society, Mr. Gills owns the South Lakes Wild Animal Park himself.
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Yeah, my thinking was much the same as Brum's - that Gill would cut and run if things got too sticky.
 
Brum said:
He does have form for abandoning his parks when they go wrong, I'm sure the Aussies can fill in some gaps regarding Cairns! :p
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no no no, he fled Australia "in fear for his and his family's lives" because he had been deemed "an enemy of the state". Because Australia is apparently North Korea. I'm sure he would *never* abandon another zoo and leave the animals to die.....
 
Chlidonias said:
no no no, he fled Australia "in fear for his and his family's lives" because he had been deemed "an enemy of the state". Because Australia is apparently North Korea. I'm sure he would *never* abandon another zoo and leave the animals to die.....
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See, if I wasn't aware of Mr Gills past then I'd assume you were being sarcastic regarding the "fear for his life" scenario but it does sound like the sort of excuse he would come out with! Out of curiosity, why was he fearing for his life?

And he wouldn't abandon these animals to die, he'd probably let them eat each other... Sorry, my mistake, that's already happening! :rolleyes:
 
Brum said:
See, if I wasn't aware of Mr Gills past then I'd assume you were being sarcastic regarding the "fear for his life" scenario but it does sound like the sort of excuse he would come out with! Out of curiosity, why was he fearing for his life?
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the direct quote from a recent article (I think it may have been linked on a South Lakes thread as well):
Mr Gill left Australia after his park in Cairns in Queensland was accused of breaching permit conditions. He said at the time that he left quickly "under deep fear for both my family and my safety and freedom".
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Council called for review of tiger enclosure seven years ago | Herald Scotland

I'm sure I read another quote (perhaps from his autobiography?) where he said "feared for his life" but I may be mistaken. He does like to exaggerate a tad.


"Enemy of the state" came from his autobiography (as here: [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nine-Lives-David-Stanley-Gill/dp/0957064500"]Nine Lives: Amazon.co.uk: David Stanley Gill: Books[/ame])
....Australia, where he also became an enemy of the state before fleeing for his life.
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there we go also: "fleeing for his life". That's where I got that from!
 
Chlidonias said:
the direct quote from a recent article (I think it may have been linked on a South Lakes thread as well):

Council called for review of tiger enclosure seven years ago | Herald Scotland

I'm sure I read another quote (perhaps from his autobiography?) where he said "feared for his life" but I may be mistaken. He does like to exaggerate a tad.


"Enemy of the state" came from his autobiography (as here: Nine Lives: Amazon.co.uk: David Stanley Gill: Books)

there we go also: "fleeing for his life". That's where I got that from!
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Cool, I don't know if he's paranoid or suffering from a major ego trip. Probably the latter given his sense of self importance!
There's been that many South Lakes articles posted lately that I've completely lost track of them so thanks for finding a relevant one. ;)
I find it amazing that no-one on here has admitted to actually reading his autobiography given the amount of literature everybody has gone through. I wonder why that is? :rolleyes:
 
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