taun
Well-Known Member
Were those two females that went off to france with a male aswell for the a new group for the handraised gorilla there?
As the new enclosure build for them looked great
Twycross Zoo Twycross zoo
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Were those two females that went off to france with a male aswell for the a new group for the handraised gorilla there?
As the new enclosure build for them looked great
That could well be the crux of it, coupled with the memory of an elephant causing a keeper's death in the past... a mix of reasons in fact...
No, that was a trio that went to St Martin La Plaine, to a brand new 'tropicarium' type exhibit. The male was 'Kishum' from the batchelor groups and two young Howletts-born females. I think at least one has bred in France.
The two non-breeder females(Tamarilla & Kabinda) went to a different French zoo, Beauval- they joined two females already there and a non-breeding male (Yangu)- as soon as he was replaced (by Asato from Paignton) they all started breeding. Kabinda did have a baby at Howletts but it was years ago- she lived in Bitam's group but he ignored her- her baby was by one of his sons(Biju) then living in the group.
Personally, I think Twycross is a massive net consumer of extremely rare wildlife and constantly seems able to acquire species other collections would give their eye tooth for, only to house them in very average enclosures until they gradually die out without much or any breeding success. For this reason, I think they should build on their 100% success rate with Asian elephants (I know it's only been two so far) and the few other species they have done well with, and stop keeping animals they don't have success with. That was the attitude at places like howletts, if an animal didn't thrive or breed, they wouldn't just leave them to grow old, they'd find a new home for them and try something else.
Bear in mind that the 100% success rate was entirely to Chester Zoo's credit. What we have been saying all along is that after returning to Twycross on their confirmed pregnancies and the uneventful and successful rearing of both calves, they did not wish to invest in housing a bull nor did they send on the cows once more to Chester for re-breeding. The net end result has been that one of the breeding cows is now considered post reproductive (it makes you want to tear your hair out ...) and for the other they are discussing and discussing whether they should opt for AI or not. It remains a failed breeding policy.
On top of that they cannot even establish a stable herd structure and have had to remove one of their female calves to Whipsnade because she was becoming unmanageable under free contact ...! Accepted policy within the Asian elephant EEP - and now followed by most participating zoos - is to assign those zoos unwilling to establish a separate bull holding facility for breeding as non-breeding locations that will only receive elderly post-reproductive females to house. A second option to house a group of young bulls (as an increased number of calves leaves the younger bulls to move on between 6-8 years of age as happens in the wild) is out of the question given Twycross's negative stance on elephant bulls. A third option to send on related females to breeding situations (one could have imagined that with Karishma Minbu would have followed her) was also not followed. In other words within the EEP Twycross has a very peculiar position.
I wish they would alter their elephant breeding policy once and for all. Twycross cannot now play the waiting game with the only elder cow still deemed fit to breed till a next or a next year, she should fall pregnant at the earliest possible date (at 24/25 both cows are already at risk from their reproductive system shutting down simply by virtue of them not giving birth every 5-6 years).
Similarly, the situation with gorillas is equally bleak. A new proven silverback should already have been in residence at Twycross for the younger group and a more hands on policy would have seen the older non-breeding females at Twycross given over to a proven breeder or sent on to a gorilla collection with a proven track record like Howletts ....
What I cannot get my head around is the fact that by simplying adjusting their breeding policies somewhat, they would achieve much more productive results and give their groups of gorillas and elephants an added dynamic (both for the individuals and zoo visitors coming to awe at them). And ..., we all know that both elephant calves and gorilla babies are a huge drawcard to any zoo. It would bring in much needed cash.
Instead the zoo is now investing in this multi-million cash of a Visitor Center, whilst most animal enclosures still remain to be upgraded! I think that is a great missed opportunity! Imagine what 10-12 million euros would have done to establish a world class great ape exhibit for gorillas, bonobos and orang utans, a state of the art breeding facility for rare gibbon species and leaf-eating primates. Imagine theming Twycross Zoo around SE Asian rainforest exhibitry and species (which they have now thankfully partially put into operation by building a longhouse - alas though without any concurrent major animal exhibits added) and added on Malayan tapirs, anoas, babirusas, clouded leopards and fishing cats, an African Congo habitat with added river hogs and okapis, an Asian lion terraces .... with blackbuck and chinkara gazelles, South American Amazonia with Callitrichines, woolly monkeys, howlers, spiders and capibaras, south American tapir .... MMMMM, I must be dreaming ....
This isn't entirely unrealistic, Twycross has already themed the Malayan Tapir enclosure to match the longhouse and babirusa could easily go into the neighbouring paddock (which holds tufted deer)Anoa could have a renovated flamingo pool. Fishing Cats could go into the caracara/scottish wildcat enclosures and clouded leopards could have an exhibit built on the crane enclosure before the longhouse...
Obviously, my ideas are to make Twycross Zoo an even better place to sojourn a day at the wilds! The zoo just needs a clear direction and spirit! It already has an imaginative animal collection, just it could present it in a much better way! Also, it is in all fairness the major primate species collection in the UK and could do so much for primate conservation both ex situ and in situ.
Do you know by any chance what the new management is looking for? Have they a masterplan or collection plan roll on? What immediate plans after the Zoo Visitor Center is built (or even in betweenish)?
I think we'd all like Twycross to use all the space its got to house a more varied range of species but at the end of the day its Twycross zoo 'The world Primate Centre'. I doubt very much now they have this identity of a world leader for primates they will be particularly interested in making it a more mainstream zoo by housing a wider range of species other than the ones it has.
If they were to get a Bull elephant which would save wasting maybe 3 females that are able to reproduce would their exhibit really be big enough? They've only recently changed it to so i doubt they'd be particularly happy to enlarge it which i think they would have to esp with the hopeful new calves a bull would bring.
If they were to get a Bull elephant which would save wasting maybe 3 females that are able to reproduce would their exhibit really be big enough? They've only recently changed it to so i doubt they'd be particularly happy to enlarge it which i think they would have to esp with the hopeful new calves a bull would bring.
I don't see the existing enclosure would need to be enlarged particularly, apart from the necessary additional housing for the bull. If calves were produced, they could still keep the female group to a size relevant to the enclosure size by sending away related animals if need be. Being slow breeders any increase in the herd size would be over a considerable time.
I'm not sure if the planned Lion & Dhole enclosures are to be in that general area- it might compromise expanding the elephant area if they wanted to at some time in future.
Do Twycross ever exercise their elephants outside the paddock?
zoogiraffe
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Correct that is where the Lion,Dhole and Hyena exhibit is suppose to be going,i have seen them walk the younger Elephants round the zoo but not for a few years.
stewart1988
New Member
I am currently working on the design team for the Twycross Zoo development, I know pretty much everything that is going to be built.. there is going to be a water cleaning system that will clean all the water and re-use it throughout the zoo, and this will also become an attraction for visitors.. There is also plans for a windmill to generate electricity or a biofuel plant. Email me for more info, I have plans and architects drawings etc
stewart1988
New Member
Snow Leopards, Waders and possibly a Leafeater Ant Display.. Although the ant display is proving rather difficult. The snow leopard exhibit is going to have a snow machine, which will make artificial snow and pump it out as and when it is needed. There is obviously also going to be the addition of a major new restaurant and eating area, aswell as shopping areas..
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
No, I have to disagree. Certainly Chester was instrumental in the process, but bear in mind that Tonzi and Mimbu may well have been tractable but they were badly socialised animals with very little experience of other elephants apart from the short time at Chester. I saw footage of the births, which were assisted by the keepers while the mothers were chained....sadly a necessary and common procedure for some elephants who are are risk of attacking or trampling calves with so little experience of them. To deliver each baby successfully and succeed in calmy reuniting them with their mothers I consider to be a 100% success rate. Uneventful is the operative word here, but that would have taken a great deal of work to achieve.
I agree totally about their position, I wonder is the power balance such that EEP coordinators/ BIAZA can't really afford to throw their weight around with certain collections for fear of losing animals from the program?
I actually shudder at the list of rare and difficult-to-breed animals suggested for twycross......I don't think their breeding record is all that good, they just HAVE lots of rare species (many ageing rapidly).
Writhedhornbill
Well-Known Member
Phayre's langur...
You are definitely confusing her with another langur species. The Phayre's langur at Twycross is an elderly female with little hope of ever getting a companion from overseas. The species' home range is Bangladesh, Burma, China, India, Thailand, and Vietnam. Not sure which part of SE Asia the Twycross' Phayre's is from ...
Twycross Zoo currently breeds both Javan silvered langur and Dusky langur.
Does anyone have any photos or exhibit drawings from the above mentioned species on file for us?
I think I have a video of the dusky langurs...
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