Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
So any closure of the ZSL London site would be terminal for Whipsnade too in a way ?
UK city zoos: do they have a future?
- Thread starter Panthera1981
- Start date
So any closure of the ZSL London site would be terminal for Whipsnade too in a way ?
Not necessarily. People are prepared to travel to Whipsnade, and it’s main catchment is predominantly families rather than tourists. Plus, in my experience, there’s a lot of goodwill directed to Whipsnade as opposed to London. Obviously, with proper investment, it’s transport links could be better. Part of the original plans were for the zoo to have its on train station!
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
It sounds like theoretically a move to the countryside could work then.
No ,I agree with what Panthera1981 says here. Whipsnade is a 'good day out' for many families- nobody complains there about decaying buildings or not enough animals to see- despite it being a much reduced collection nowadays...general public-type visitors like their animals more in open spaces I think.
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
Well that is pretty positive here and I suppose is another indication that a move to the countryside could work for ZSL London.
Plus there is all of that empty or unused space that I've heard about on the forum at Whipsnade which could be filled by animals from London or new facilities built to house these.
I’ve said numerous times, Whipsnade is not hamstrung (or at least nowhere near as much) by the many issues that plague, and will continue to plague, London Zoo. It’s potential simply hasn’t been taken advantage of imho.
One could argue of course that the issue that weighs down Whipsnade is London Zoo itself!
One could argue of course that the issue that weighs down Whipsnade is London Zoo itself!
Onychorhynchus coronatus
Well-Known Member
I think that last sentence would pretty much up my stance on the issue too, though I do like London's focus (kind of...) on smaller taxa.
There is no motorway between Plymouth and Exeter, it's all A roads, the A38 is also not near Paignton - you're basically going out in the lowly populated South Hams if you're trying to get near to the A38.
Paignton isn't that hard to access with a car, you just take the Torbay Ring Road and then a quick 5 min drive into the outskirts of Paignton. It's also highly reliant upon tourists - more so than your city zoos, so you want it within easy access of those in Paignton (...and to a lesser extent Torquay).
Having failed with their expansion into Torquay and the relatively low land value in that part of Paignton, I doubt it'll ever relocate.
Belfast is considerably bigger than this: 55 acres (~22ha) according to their website. The IZY figure may refer to the old zoo site.
Also, I suspect the figure for Colchester pre-dates the Africa extension from the early 2000s.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
I am sure we have covered this before Tim. There is now (and has been for well over a year) a single daily bus service to/from Hamerton Zoo Park entrance where there is now a signed bus-stop, to Huntingdon station - but it leaves the Park in the morning and returns in the afternoon, so appears to be designed to take visitors away from us rather than bring then to us. Luckily (for us if not the Huntingdon rate-payers) is has never been used and is empty in both directions every day.
During Covid it seems that we have been very fortunate not to have had public transport, as private family cars are by far the safest way to travel. Then supposed 'remoteness' is of course no concern as you simply put a postcode into your phone or sat-nav and follow the the screen. Indeed this is the reply from the Highways Agency every time someone complains about the atrocious and out-dated signing they provide for us.
edit - The new town of Alconbury Weald being built on the old Alconbury air-base around 4 miles south-east of Hamerton is on the junction between the A1 and the A14, and as it sits practically on the east coast main line, is planned to have its own new railway station. Wont shorten the walk, but might halve the taxi ride...
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I think it very unlikely that ZSL will vacate the Regent’s Park site because:
I understand the listed structures to include:
ZSL does not have the freehold of the site (which, to quote from the 2018/19 Annual report, is on lease “from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. The lease was renewed in 1999 for a term of 56 years at no annual rent.”).
Without raising money by land or other asset sale (as Bristol propose) or multimillion pound fund raising ZSL would be unable to fund the transfer of the current animal stock, staff, ancillary services etc to Whipsnade, and the decommissioning of the Regent’s Park site.
Any transfer of the small mammal, reptile, bird, invertebrate and remaining fish collections, each requiring large scale investment in fixed buildings would be particularly problematic.
Any move would also require the transfer the substantial veterinary and pathology units currently on Regent’s Park site.
The Regent’s Park site also houses the associated science units in the Nuffield and Welcome Buildings, and the Society HQ building with the offices and the huge, and internationally important, library collection.
Whilst the Wild Place site is close to Bristol and therefore hopefully the majority of Bristol Zoo staff will be able to reasonably easily transfer employment from one site to the other; Whipsnade is over 30 miles from Regent’s Park and such staff transfers would be more difficult logistically and personally.
Leaving the Regent’s Park site and letting it revert to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport would, as I understand it, require a substantial and possibly ongoing legacy cost in terms of the cost of maintenance of the existing listed structures (see below) built by ZSL and of maintenance/demolition/removal of other structures. People often substantially underestimate the costs of zoo operation and specifically the costs of construction and demolition in London.
Without raising money by land or other asset sale (as Bristol propose) or multimillion pound fund raising ZSL would be unable to fund the transfer of the current animal stock, staff, ancillary services etc to Whipsnade, and the decommissioning of the Regent’s Park site.
Any transfer of the small mammal, reptile, bird, invertebrate and remaining fish collections, each requiring large scale investment in fixed buildings would be particularly problematic.
Any move would also require the transfer the substantial veterinary and pathology units currently on Regent’s Park site.
The Regent’s Park site also houses the associated science units in the Nuffield and Welcome Buildings, and the Society HQ building with the offices and the huge, and internationally important, library collection.
Whilst the Wild Place site is close to Bristol and therefore hopefully the majority of Bristol Zoo staff will be able to reasonably easily transfer employment from one site to the other; Whipsnade is over 30 miles from Regent’s Park and such staff transfers would be more difficult logistically and personally.
Leaving the Regent’s Park site and letting it revert to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport would, as I understand it, require a substantial and possibly ongoing legacy cost in terms of the cost of maintenance of the existing listed structures (see below) built by ZSL and of maintenance/demolition/removal of other structures. People often substantially underestimate the costs of zoo operation and specifically the costs of construction and demolition in London.
I understand the listed structures to include:
The Lubetkin Penguin Pool - Grade I
The Round House - Grade I
The Giraffe House - Grade II
The Clock Tower - Grade II
The Ravens Cage- Grade II
The North (Snowdon) Aviary - Grade II
The Casson Pavilion (Elephant & Rhino House) - Grade II
The East Tunnel - Grade II
The Mappin Terraces (including the Cafe and Aquarium)- Grade II
The North Gate Kiosk - Grade II
The Primrose Hill Footbridge - Grade II
The West Footbridge - Grade II
The K3 Type Telephone Box - Grade II
The War Memorial - Grade II
The Round House - Grade I
The Giraffe House - Grade II
The Clock Tower - Grade II
The Ravens Cage- Grade II
The North (Snowdon) Aviary - Grade II
The Casson Pavilion (Elephant & Rhino House) - Grade II
The East Tunnel - Grade II
The Mappin Terraces (including the Cafe and Aquarium)- Grade II
The North Gate Kiosk - Grade II
The Primrose Hill Footbridge - Grade II
The West Footbridge - Grade II
The K3 Type Telephone Box - Grade II
The War Memorial - Grade II
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Being located outside a city doesn't seem to hurt others..
Paradisio, Longleat, Alton Towers, Stonehenge...
Hasn't London technically made a partial transfer with it's aquarium?
1. How would such a move be financed? Bear in mind that the ZSL would get nothing from leaving Regent's Park and would probably have to spend a lot of money (millions?) restoring the site as parkland.
2. Moving the RP collection to Whipsnade would load extra costs onto Whipsnade with no guarantee that attendances would increase significantly.
Which reinforces my point that the other "city zoos" do not have Bristol's space problem.
I don't really understand why Colchester is being compared to Bristol, it is not an urban zoo, it is surrounded by countryside and is looking to expand into several adjoining acres that it owns.
Of the others mentioned, Edinburgh is not comparable, it has plenty of unused acres to use and is reducing its species for financial reasons not lack of space!
Likewise, Paignton, Dudley and even London have unused space, none can really be compared to Bristol's 12 acres, pinned in on all sides!
cliffxdavis
Well-Known Member
If zoos are not going to get the public transport links they deserve they will need to rely on private motorists. Next expense will be installing all those charging points in the carparks for the Electric Vehicles.
You'll find this is less because of space constraints and more because of poor management and the troubles with listed buildings.
It won't be long until Wild Place is considered a city zoo. With the selling of Filton airfield to housing developers there will be massive expansion north of Bristol. An arena is planned there, an aeroplane museum was opened 2 or 3 years ago, The Wave (an artificial surfing lake) opened a year ago. I've heard it jokingly referred to as Filton Keynes.
London started an edge of town zoo and is now in the heart of the city, it won't be long for Wild Place
London started an edge of town zoo and is now in the heart of the city, it won't be long for Wild Place