UK zoos & lockdown going forward...

I will admit to not having read too much of this thread,its too depressing for one thing.So forgive me if i tread on the toes of some previous point or repeat something. Personally im not overly swayed by the shocking covid statistics. We have to start letting go or we will enter an economic wasteland...and ive heard already that the health cost ,in general terms, to the nation, in remaining in lockdown could well be worse than from the virus itself. This may sound callous,even shocking to some,but coronavirus,as we currently understand it in the UK is quite rare.Im not saying that we should have all-male bare-chest wrestling with strangers in the high street, but i certainly think we could be going farther than we are doing at the moment quite sensibly...what is the risk ,with masks ,of a haircut for instance? And zoos...yes,i can understand,that indoor housing for the moment might be a risk but clearly they represent no more of a threat ,in general,than public parks whilst at the same time holding important populations of animals. Its just one of the many inconsistencies of the current time...BUT ITS THE ONE THAT HURTS.
P.S. and to all zoochatters - write or email to your MP if you think zoos should be opened.Its not a big job...and its doing SOMETHING at least!
 
I do find it interesting that even the zoos are talking about how annoying the situation is.
 
pipaluk said:
Much as I love Hemsley, (I was there a2 weeks before lockdown), part of the problem here is that all zoos and aquarium are being treated the same! Hemsley should be bracketed with aquariums, sea life and London or Bristol Zoo!
Open areas like Whipsnade, Marwell, Hamerton, Wild Place, Linton, dare I admit it the Aspinall Parks are far safer than your average supermarket!!
Click to expand...

We've installed a LOT of changes, not saying that you are either right or wrong. We are all part of a bigger picture which up until the worst happens, the players that are in the 'club' fall silent. For the first time in weeks (I'm 'high risk') I went to a supermarket yesterday. You are a lot safer having a one way stroll, with unlimited circuits in your slot and capped visitors here than you are where I was yesterday... As pointed out in my letter, it's absurd that our licensing authorities are not trusted enough to work with us and assess the risks on a case by case basis.

Some insurance companies have paid out, we received a small amount from an extra we took out in 2015 that covered pandemics - but it will be interesting to see how this changed now it is enforced as after talking to our insurance loss adjuster, it was DEFRAs remark about never being enforced to close that was causing a problem for many. So much so, they had to look in to it to see whether they themselves needed to reclaim the payouts.

The shortcomings of DEFRA are frequent, and huge.
 
adamhemsley said:
We've installed a LOT of changes, not saying that you are either right or wrong. We are all part of a bigger picture which up until the worst happens, the players that are in the 'club' fall silent. For the first time in weeks (I'm 'high risk') I went to a supermarket yesterday. You are a lot safer having a one way stroll, with unlimited circuits in your slot and capped visitors here than you are where I was yesterday... As pointed out in my letter, it's absurd that our licensing authorities are not trusted enough to work with us and assess the risks on a case by case basis.
Click to expand...
I agree, letting the licensing authorities make decisions on what is allowed to open on a case by case basis MiGHT help the situation, I had already thought about this.
However, what if an authority had a grudge against a particular zoo in its area?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
adamhemsley said:
We've installed a LOT of changes, not saying that you are either right or wrong. We are all part of a bigger picture which up until the worst happens, the players that are in the 'club' fall silent. For the first time in weeks (I'm 'high risk') I went to a supermarket yesterday. You are a lot safer having a one way stroll, with unlimited circuits in your slot and capped visitors here than you are where I was yesterday... As pointed out in my letter, it's absurd that our licensing authorities are not trusted enough to work with us and assess the risks on a case by case basis.

Some insurance companies have paid out, we received a small amount from an extra we took out in 2015 that covered pandemics - but it will be interesting to see how this changed now it is enforced as after talking to our insurance loss adjuster, it was DEFRAs remark about never being enforced to close that was causing a problem for many. So much so, they had to look in to it to see whether they themselves needed to reclaim the payouts.

The shortcomings of DEFRA are frequent, and huge.
Click to expand...

It is interesting what you say about insurance. If other policies have paid out, our providers (who are the market leaders) and have lied to us in writing. We have been told formally that no insurance companies provide cover for pandemics, and policies such as ours which dont exclude pandemics are automatically nullified, and no such claims will be accepted. This is the written answer we submitted to DEFRA with our ZooFund application. This may be why we have opinion from London compensation solicitors that we do have a claim; although we cannot pursue it as their fees are c£20,000 plus 10%....
 
pipaluk said:
I agree, letting the licensing authorities make decisions on what is allowed to open on a case by case basis MiGHT help the situation, I had already thought about this.
However, what if an authority had a grudge against a particular zoo in its area?
Click to expand...
I dont agree.
In 'normal' times Local Authorities have to call in a team of experts to cover their backs, let alone now. There is already far too much variation in the way zoo licensing is handled, without giving more power to them. Individual anti-zoo sentiment is likely to have far more power locally, as it has in some cases in the past.
Local Authority (and local police) approval are the reason West Lodge Farm Park is open and trading, competing against us (with the knowledge of their MP and ours) - against what BIAZA says are DEFRA rulings.
 
Last edited:
Andrew Swales said:
I dont agree.
In 'normal' times Local Authorities have to call in a team of experts to cover their backs, let alone now. There is already far too much variation in the way zoo licensing is handled, without giving more power to them. Individual anti-zoo sentiment is likely to have far more power locally, as it has in some cases in the past.
Local Authority (and local police) approval are the reason West Lodge Farm Park is open and trading, competing against us (with the knowledge of their MP and ours) - against what BIAZA says are DEFRA rulings.
Click to expand...
I only said it might help giving local authorities the power and you appear to be agreeing with my second point!
 
Tim Brown said:
We have to start letting go or we will enter an economic wasteland...and ive heard already that the health cost ,in general terms, to the nation, in remaining in lockdown could well be worse than from the virus itself.
Click to expand...
I agree. There seem to be some people who want to be paid to stay away from work until the coronavirus no longer exists. If other people used the same mindset, various world economies would have collapsed as malaria and various other diseases have occurred for thousands of years. The fewer people who return to work, the less money will be available for taxes..
 
Dassie rat said:
I agree. There seem to be some people who want to be paid to stay away from work until the coronavirus no longer exists.
Click to expand...

How can you blame them? The Government has controlled this by TV adverts featuring famous celebrities telling people it is unsafe to leave their house, and more people listen to Drew Pritchard or Kevin Bacon than to Boris Johnson. Maybe you cant blame them?
The population has been controlled by fear and miss-information; presumably because we don't have identity cards and Government control of the public, or tanks and military police; like other countries...
 
Andrew Swales said:
How can you blame them? The Government has controlled this by TV adverts featuring famous celebrities telling people it is unsafe to leave their house, and more people listen to Drew Pritchard or Kevin Bacon than to Boris Johnson. Maybe you cant blame them?
The population has been controlled by fear and miss-information; presumably because we don't have identity cards and Government control of the public, or tanks and military police; like other countries...
Click to expand...

I do think that this pandemic needs taking extremely seriously, and if anything, I don't believe the UK government (or many of the general public) are taking it anywhere near seriously enough. A zoo forum probably isn't the place for me to air my thoughts on that, though.

What I am disgusted by, is the hypocritical treatment of zoos when other businesses which are far less safe and where it is much harder to enforce social distancing, are opening for business. I accept that sometimes necessary shops such as supermarkets probably have to take some risks by opening - but some of the things that are being allowed to open before zoos beggars belief - car showrooms, hairdressers, and even horse racing is resuming before we can visit a zoo, most of which have large outdoor spaces where the limited numbers that would be allowed on site could spread out nicely. Indeed, its crazy that most zoos insist that they won't open their cafes and gift shops when they do finally re-open, yet the government will probably be opening up pubs and restaurants at the same time as the zoos! Madness!

I certainly believe that priority is not being given to re-opening places that are safest to go to, but those which will be most beneficial to the economy, and those which the rich seem to enjoy most. So you can have a flutter on the horses and visit some posh gardens by all means, but no chance of a nice day out with the kids at a zoo which could be good for mental and physical stimulation.
 
Sand Cat said:
I do think that this pandemic needs taking extremely seriously,
Click to expand...
I dont think anyone would disagree with you, and I would personally agree with your comment and not that of Tim Brown above, so far as the disease itself is concerned.

Sand Cat said:
and if anything, I don't believe the UK government are taking it anywhere near seriously enough.
Click to expand...
Given the lies and miss-information by, (and delivery of its message by TV fear adverts) by Government, I am not sure how you or anyone can source enough accurate and un-spun data to be able to make a fair conclusion on this.

Sand Cat said:
What I am disgusted by, is the hypocritical treatment of zoos when other businesses which are far less safe and where it is much harder to enforce social distancing, are opening for business. I accept that sometimes necessary shops such as supermarkets probably have to take some risks by opening - but some of the things that are being allowed to open before zoos beggars belief - car showrooms, hairdressers, and even horse racing is resuming before we can visit a zoo, most of which have large outdoor spaces where the limited numbers that would be allowed on site could spread out nicely. Indeed, its crazy that most zoos insist that they won't open their cafes and gift shops when they do finally re-open, yet the government will probably be opening up pubs and restaurants at the same time as the zoos! Madness!

I certainly believe that priority is not being given to re-opening places that are safest to go to, but those which will be most beneficial to the economy, and those which the rich seem to enjoy most. So you can have a flutter on the horses and visit some posh gardens by all means, but no chance of a nice day out with the kids at a zoo which could be good for mental and physical stimulation.
Click to expand...

Yes - and the logic that it will be OK to fly to Italy to visit an Italian zoo (example only) before you can visit an English one, is quite bizarre (and financially discriminatory) - especially when Twycross were told that zoos were being kept closed to stop mixed messages from being sent out. The airline industry 'lobby' is certainly more powerful than the zoo industry one.

The problem is that the zoo lobby is being fronted by an organisation which has itself lumped zoos with aquaria, but it and its members now complain when Government does exactly the same.

Our position is different - that as a site, both physically and in the eyes of then public we have far more in common with the farm-park 20 miles down the road which the Police and the Government have allowed to re-open, than with BIAZA's aquarium or city zoo membership. The BBC wrote 'Zoos are the only places of public entertainment allowed to start trading again, simply because they're mainly places of outdoor entertainment and scientists are confident that outdoors is less dangerous than indoors'.
 
Last edited:
Rather surprised to read this morning the WWT Slimbridge as well as their other English centres will be re-opening from June 10th . Really pleased to see this , BUT they are licensed as Zoos so do not understand this .

No chance of the LLanelli centre opening yet , Wales is still close to total Lockdown , with no changes planned for at least another 2 weeks .
 
Bele said:
Rather surprised to read this morning the WWT Slimbridge as well as their other English centres will be re-opening from June 10th . Really pleased to see this , BUT they are licensed as Zoos so do not understand this .
Click to expand...

If this true, then it cranks up the stupidity and discrimination further, as not only are they licensed zoos, but they are BIAZA members - and one of BIAZA's opening criteria is that walk-through exhibits are to be kept closed. Have BIAZA made any comment?

edit - just checked ZTL and Slimbridge has the following taxa in addition to its ducks, geese, swans and flamingos - 1 fish, 37 amphibians, 4 wild mammals + 1 breed of domestic mammal. Not just legally a zoo, but physically a zoo!
 
Last edited:
Chester have just sent an emailing to ask for help, with big font saying Save our Zoo, they have been told to stay shut indefinitely and are very concerned for the future.
 
jde7582 said:
Chester have just sent an emailing to ask for help, with big font saying Save our Zoo, they have been told to stay shut indefinitely and are very concerned for the future.
Click to expand...

Full statement available to read here - pretty forceful stuff.
 
So who gave WWT permission to open then? The whole situation gets more bizarre and bewildering by the minute!!
 
Andrew Swales said:
edit - just checked ZTL and Slimbridge has the following taxa in addition to its ducks, geese, swans and flamingos - 1 fish, 37 amphibians, 4 wild mammals + 1 breed of domestic mammal. Not just legally a zoo, but physically a zoo!
Click to expand...

I guess the fish and amphibians are in the display in their entry hall. The '4 wild mammals' would be the Otter display presumably. The 1 breed of domestic mammal?- grazing cattle or sheep perhaps, or would it be the duck decoy dog?!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top