UK zoos & lockdown going forward...

[Andrew Swales]

I'm assuming the 6 weeks must relate to the second bullet point below. They don't put a time period on 'immediate risk' in anything I have read but they must have some way to quantify this.

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Yes - 'smaller' zoos are referred to, as is a maximum cap on grants, but there is no mention of six weeks for zoos intending to continue. For those wanting to close and re-home their animals, then an estimate of the cost of doing so 'by July' is required. This of course is about six weeks...

 

[Zia]

Yes - 'smaller' zoos are referred to, as is a maximum cap on grants, but there is no mention of six weeks for zoos intending to continue. For those wanting to close and re-home their animals, then an estimate of the cost of doing so 'by July' is required. This of course is about six weeks...

I read it as an either / or situation. They are asking for the below justification which would cover either eventuality i.e. animal care-related costs up to 31st July OR animal rehoming costs up to 31st July.

 

[Andrew Swales]

I read it as an either / or situation. They are asking for the below justification which would cover either eventuality i.e. animal care-related costs up to 31st July OR animal rehoming costs up to 31st July.

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Yes these are the lists of what 'you may need'. Once you have registered on the portal and actually access the application form itself, it is not an either/or...

 

[Zia]

Yes these are the lists of what 'you may need'. Once you have registered on the portal and actually access the application form itself, it is not an either/or...

I meant the up until 31st July time period seems to apply regardless of the scenario picked - obviously you would need to specify what you are applying for (care costs or rehoming). Or do you mean that date disappears for the animal care related costs option once you have logged in? Sounds like the Exmoor amount granted does cover them for that same time period from what they have posted on social media.

 

[Andrew Swales]

I meant the up until 31st July time period seems to apply regardless of the scenario picked - obviously you would need to specify what you are applying for (care costs or rehoming). Or do you mean that date disappears for the animal care related costs option once you have logged in? Sounds like the Exmoor amount granted does cover them for that same time period from what they have posted on social media.

You read it as an either/or re-homing or keeping, which is implied from the pre-amble. My reply was, as I said, once inside it does not restrict you to one or the other, as you assumed - as it can be both. July 31st is the cut off-point, but that is 10 weeks away, not 6...

 

[Zia]

You read it as an either/or re-homing or keeping, which is implied from the pre-amble. My reply was, as I said, once inside it does not restrict you to one or the other, as you assumed - as it can be both. July 31st is the cut off-point, but that is 10 weeks away, not 6...

I see - thanks. Well I am glad Exmoor have managed to get some support in any case.

 

[woody505]

Walked to a collection today where the grounds have re opened but the zoo bit is still closed. Your allowed to walk the perimeter fence and see limited bits. Everybody I saw was good at social distancing. Hopefully where not too far away of a system where they can open with a systemasystem where everybody is safe

 

[Andrew Swales]

Be careful - we asked for clarification this week, and received the following:
It is now illegal to travel to a 'ticketed attraction' - you do not have to go in, you do not have to buy a ticket - as the destination might be legally open, just travelling to it is illegal with a potential unlimited fine and the serving of a prohibition order. The travel is the illegal part, and it did not differentiate, whether this is/was done on 2 wheels, on 4 or on foot.

 

[woody505]

It's owned by the city council the car park has re opened if wish to drive but it's close enough for me to walk to. Be a bit unfair fining people. Don't really want to give the location away but if saying it's council owned is too big a clue I'll take the message down.

 

[J C]

Be careful - we asked for clarification this week, and received the following:
It is now illegal to travel to a 'ticketed attraction' - you do not have to go in, you do not have to buy a ticket - as the destination might be legally open, just travelling to it is illegal with a potential unlimited fine and the serving of a prohibition order. The travel is the illegal part, and it did not differentiate, whether this is/was done on 2 wheels, on 4 or on foot.

I know this would be bending the rules but would it be ok then if you where to open your doors then for free no tickets but have a donation box by the entrance ? I only ask as when I used to run a bar if we where to supply a bar of site we had to get a licence for every event to do so but if it was given away by the host ie a free bar no licence would be needed and the police or courts would not needed to be notified

 

[Andrew Swales]

It's owned by the city council the car park has re opened if wish to drive but it's close enough for me to walk to. Be a bit unfair fining people. Don't really want to give the location away but if saying it's council owned is too big a clue I'll take the message down.

No need to take the message down, it is quite clear from their web-site that the gardens are open but the zoo is not. Your being allowed/encouraged to travel to a 'ticketed attraction' which is still visible through its perimeter fence is the illegal part, along with your actually doing it. The zoo need not be closed, we have that in writing.

 

[Andrew Swales]

I know this would be bending the rules but would it be ok then if you where to open your doors then for free no tickets but have a donation box by the entrance ? I only ask as when I used to run a bar if we where to supply a bar of site we had to get a licence for every event to do so but if it was given away by the host ie a free bar no licence would be needed and the police or courts would not needed to be notified

No - the definition is a 'ticketed attraction' - it does not exempt any such temporarily not selling tickets. But it is the travelling to it which is illegal (and subject to fines) - not the attraction actually being open; selling tickets, giving free entry or any other method.

This confusion is building such a head of steam, that surely something will soon have to give!

There is now a slow trickle of cars driving into our car-park, breaking the new 'you cannot drive to a ticketed attraction' law. The police don't appear to be stopping them, and we ARE allowed to let them in, theoretically - although of course we dare not risk it and be seen to be encouraging them to break the law.

 

[woody505]

Was alot of safety signs up and about do and don'ts but didn't see any about walking around the zoo perimeter bit are visitors just meant to know that's a no go area?

 

[J C]

Or what if you where to charge for parking and not entry to the zoo

No - the definition is a 'ticketed attraction' - it does not exempt any such temporarily not selling tickets. But it is the travelling to it which is illegal (and subject to fines) - not the attraction actually being open; selling tickets, giving free entry or any other method.

This confusion is building such a head of steam, that surely something will soon have to give!

There is now a slow trickle of cars driving into our car-park, breaking the new 'you cannot drive to a ticketed attraction' law. The police don't appear to be stopping them, and we ARE allowed to let them in, theoretically - although of course we dare not risk it and be seen to be encouraging them to break the law.

ok I knew it was a stretch just came to mind today when I saw a lot of people visiting are local park, and when you mentioned ticket attraction I recalled seeing the line of people at the pay and display parking and have to wonder what the difference is between a park and a zoo

 

[Pertinax]

No - the definition is a 'ticketed attraction' - it does not exempt any such temporarily not selling tickets. But it is the travelling to it which is illegal (and subject to fines) - not the attraction actually being open; selling tickets, giving free entry or any other method.

Afaik the only legitimate reason for 'non-essential' travel- despite the fact you can now drive for hours to do it if you so wish as long as you get home the same day- is still for 'exercise' and presumably, as they've now been re-opened, to visit garden centres also? You can also now do things like playing golf, go fishing etc but not visit any 'ticketed attractions' still. Me? I'm just off for a spot of deer-stalking...

 

[dublinlion]

The only possible bright side to this horrible crisis, is that when the lockdown is lifted, zoos should get higher visitor numbers for a period of time. During and after the bank crisis of 2008, the Irish zoos got many extra visitors because many people were strapped for cash and did'nt travel abroad for a few years. The extra revenue allowed the zoos to improve further and they held the new popularity.
It would be shortsighted and surprising if any government failed to aid their good zoos through this crisis, as they will be a very valuable recreational resource (and employers/educators) when normality returns.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Afaik the only legitimate reason for 'non-essential' travel- despite the fact you can now drive for hours to do it if you so wish as long as you get home the same day- is still for 'exercise' and presumably, as they've now been re-opened, to visit garden centres also? You can also now do things like playing golf, go fishing etc but not visit any 'ticketed attractions' still. Me? I'm just off for a spot of deer-stalking...

Shopping too of course, not just exercise.
In this area most fishing is done at lakes which are both 'private' and 'ticketed'. You drive your car to a private site, park it for free and then pay for a day ticket - just like a zoo...

 

[cliffxdavis]

These rules and restrictions are clearly devised by different people, in different rooms of different buildings, in different locations and in different Departments.

There is clearly no cohesive strategy or plan about what to do or how to do it.

 

[Andrew Swales]

These rules and restrictions are clearly devised by different people, in different rooms of different buildings, in different locations and in different Departments.

There is clearly no cohesive strategy or plan about what to do or how to do it.

I think you are being very kind, to them.
Another take is that this is designed to deliberately create confusion to keep people scared and at home, and to transfer blame and responsibility...
Just where it leaves the economy and 'business' in general, afterwards - we will all have to wait and see...
We have recently heard the phrase 'Covid Secure', and the responsibility for this appears to be down to employers, not Government or the public. Emails yesterday from RyanAir offering flights to Prague and many other European cities from 1st July for £19.99, do make you wonder how they can do this on an aeroplane...
But - at least people will be able to visit the zoo, even if isn't an English one...!
Certainly there has been a shift in the law at least. Previously offenses were either quite clear and if not would be set by previous case precedent in Court, now it seems up to each individual police constable to make up his own mind. The current restrictions have been created to actively encourage people to lie to the police about their destination; this is a bit of a game change for most English people whose natural base-line is one of telling the truth.
It was clear from the start that the country faced at least two risks from this pandemic - the first was the severity of the disease itself - the second was the financial impact and the Governments response to it...

 

[Andrew Swales]

It would be shortsighted and surprising if any government failed to aid their good zoos through this crisis, as they will be a very valuable recreational resource (and employers/educators) when normality returns.

We have already heard that applications to the 'ZooFund' have been refused - not sure if they were 'good' ones though, but it does look as though they ARE being 'shortsighted' - which is probably not very surprising.