UK zoos & lockdown going forward...

Pertinax said:
But I thought you said that Zoos didn't have to close in the first place and only did so because nobody could visit....
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I didnt say this - DEFRA did. I only repeated it...

Zoos were only closed by Government (by default) on 22nd May as restrictions were being lifted for other destinations, when travel to 'private or ticketed attractions' was specifically banned. This was the first time this definition has been used, and although the four-letter word was not used, of course included zoos.

From 23rd May this has been slowly contradicted as different sectors have been allowed to re-open. Zoos have now been specifically included in the Theme Park category, not with gardens, or farm parks or other outdoor attractions - which is logical to EVERYONE, except Government.

This is because of, or in spite of perhaps, lobbying by the industry bodies - be they for zoos, gardens, parks, farm-parks or whatever.

It now looks as though international aviation could even be open before Zoos are; but it presumably has a strong lobby? Again Britain (England anyway) goes it alone... None of us have any appeal, as our representatives wont reply to us, and no compensation for what has been called discrimination.

It will be of interest to see in the future at Zoo Licence inspections, when an answer might be 'of course we cant comply with our legally required educational or conservation obligations; these cost money we don't have and we are still paying off our bank loan' or perhaps 'if you had classed us as farm-park (which has no such legal requirements) we might have had the money...'
 
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The Ark Wildlife Park have said something on Facebook that I suspected might be the case - that they are allowed to open their gift shop BEFORE the grounds! Note that this establishment actually closed its shop/cafe before the lockdown started, because its owners applied logic and concluded that open spaces would be safer than having visitors eating in a confined indoor space. Chester did similarly, and others probably did too... zoo owners seem to have better logic in terms of what is safer than the Government do!
 
Sand Cat said:
The Ark Wildlife Park have said something on Facebook that I suspected might be the case - that they are allowed to open their gift shop BEFORE the grounds! Note that this establishment actually closed its shop/cafe before the lockdown started, because its owners applied logic and concluded that open spaces would be safer than having visitors eating in a confined indoor space. Chester did similarly, and others probably did too... zoo owners seem to have better logic in terms of what is safer than the Government do!
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This is not the advice we have been given.
Have they said WHO has allowed this...?
 
Andrew Swales said:
I didnt say this - DEFRA did. I only repeated it...

Zoos were only closed by Government (by default) on 22nd May as restrictions were being lifted for other destinations, when travel to 'private or ticketed attractions' was specifically banned. This was the first time this definition has been used, and although the four-letter word was not used, of course included zoos.

From 23rd May this has been slowly contradicted as different sectors have been allowed to re-open. Zoos have now been specifically included in the Theme Park category, not with gardens, or farm parks or other outdoor attractions - which is logical to EVERYONE, except Government.
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Well obviously you didn't make the legislation but it was from you I learnt this on here...hence my comment.

So zoos were actually only closed officially just recently, as ticketed attractions. How very strange this all is. As TLD said, its a bureaucratic nightmare... But I can see perhaps why they have been lumped together with the theme parks- at least a few, like Chessington and Flamingo Park are attatched to theme parks, although those are the exceptions rather than the rule.
 
Andrew Swales said:
This is not the advice we have been given.
Have they said WHO has allowed this...?
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No it wasn't stated, I assume it was based on the indication that all retail can re-open. I don't get the impression they actually intend to open their shop in any case, but once again it shows what a confusing mess this all is.
 
Pertinax said:
But I can see perhaps why they have been lumped together with the theme parks- at least a few, like Chessington and Flamingo Park are attatched to theme parks, although those are the exceptions rather than the rule.
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Very much the exception, if there are over 400 zoos in the UK.
Far, far more, can be 'lumped together' with estates, parks, gardens and farm-parks all of which have been allowed to open.

Sand Cat said:
No it wasn't stated, I assume it was based on the indication that all retail can re-open. I don't get the impression they actually intend to open their shop in any case, but once again it shows what a confusing mess this all is.
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Most zoo gift shops are set inside the site. Very few have access from a public street. The licensed zoo site starts at its perimeter, and includes its entrance, access road(s) and car-parks so you would have to drive (or walk) into the zoo before going into the shop.
 
Andrew Swales said:
Most zoo gift shops are set inside the site. Very few have access from a public street. The licensed zoo site starts at its perimeter, and includes its entrance, access road(s) and car-parks so you would have to drive (or walk) into the zoo before going into the shop.
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What they actually said was this - i.e. the site will remain closed.

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Port Lympne advance tickets now start 15th June ... I can only guess that this is based on pure optimism, rather than knowledge.
 
Zia said:
What they actually said was this - i.e. the site will remain closed.
View attachment 441043
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They must be one of the few zoos with their shop accessible from outside the site. Surely this is rare, as in most cases you have to enter the zoo site (ie its licensed land) before you get to the shop, even if you enter/exit the animal part of the zoo itself through the shop.

littleRedPanda said:
Port Lympne advance tickets now start 15th June ... I can only guess that this is based on pure optimism, rather than knowledge.
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Last week their date was 1st June - they must be giving lots of refunds/extensions...

Looks as though we are heading for an additional £150,000 of losses due to this discrimination/categorisation - and a date of early July...
 
Andrew Swales said:
Very much the exception, if there are over 400 zoos in the UK.
Far, far more, can be 'lumped together' with estates, parks, gardens and farm-parks all of which have been allowed to open.
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I do agree the layout of the vast majority of zoos/wildlife parks is on a par with all those other places you mention, particularly all those that are in rural areas, which again is probably the majority of zoos and wildlife parks. In fact I can only think of three that are conjoined with Theme Parks; Chessington, Flamingo Park/Land and Drayton Manor, though there may be a few more- Tato Park in Northern Ireland? Anyway it is a very tiny %...
 
Pertinax said:
I do agree the layout of the vast majority of zoos/wildlife parks is on a par with all those other places you mention, particularly all those that are in rural areas, which again is probably the majority of zoos and wildlife parks. In fact I can only think of three that are conjoined with Theme Parks; Chessington, Flamingo Park/Land and Drayton Manor, though there may be a few more- Tato Park in Northern Ireland? Anyway it is a very tiny %...
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The consistent thing about all of these you list is their size (and presumably dominance in the lobbying...?), as the only small one I can think of is Pettits at Reedham. It may be if these places dominate the lobbying bodies and their Theme Parks are waiting until everything is open in July, this is why the rest of us are being forced into the same 'group'. It appears that if BIAZA is not lobbying for all Zoos to be classed as Theme Parks, then it has failed much of ts membership... Looks as though we should have joined the Farm-Park Association in hindsight...
 
Pertinax said:
I do agree the layout of the vast majority of zoos/wildlife parks is on a par with all those other places you mention, particularly all those that are in rural areas, which again is probably the majority of zoos and wildlife parks. In fact I can only think of three that are conjoined with Theme Parks; Chessington, Flamingo Park/Land and Drayton Manor, though there may be a few more- Tato Park in Northern Ireland? Anyway it is a very tiny %...
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Tatyo is in southern Ireland in fact it's about 30 minutes outside Dublin
 
Pertinax said:
I remember driving past/near Pettits on the way to the pub at Reedham Ferry when we lived in that area. But have never visited it.
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I did once, but so long ago I cant remember anything. From one direction the ferry is the only access route, am I wrong? Its web-site is up and running, but a casual glance gave no indication of opening/closure etc. It doesn't seem to get any mention on here...
 
Surely a zoo is not much different than other outdoor ticketed attractions such and national trust and English heritage sites, with some of these opening in the next few weeks. If houses and cafes are shut, it is basically an outdoor walk and if one way and limited numbers, I see no issues with them opening safely.
 
Andrew Swales said:
I did once, but so long ago I cant remember anything. From one direction the ferry is the only access route, am I wrong? Its web-site is up and running, but a casual glance gave no indication of opening/closure etc. It doesn't seem to get any mention on here...
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Yes, its fairly remote and the ferry is indeed the only access from one direction. I don't think its even on the UK list on this site.
 
jde7582 said:
Surely a zoo is not much different than other outdoor ticketed attractions such and national trust and English heritage sites, with some of these opening in the next few weeks. If houses and cafes are shut, it is basically an outdoor walk and if one way and limited numbers, I see no issues with them opening safely.
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Most of our local National Trust properties are opening their gardens to on-line pre-booked ticket holders, this Wednesday 3rd June. Tickets are being 'released' only once a week, and some are already booked solid for the next fortnight. The National Trust appears to be the reason the new 'ticketed gardens' (which are not zoological gardens or botanical gardens), category was created, and gives them a massive financial boost at the direct expense of other organisations penalised by such unequal treatment - Zoos included. In 'normal' times compensation through the Courts would be available for anyone so discriminated against (if they could afford the legal fees), but not any longer it seems...
The National Trust will be able to start to pay some of its creditors this week; but the Government is stopping us from being able to do the same. It all boils down to money, and the Government has the power to turn the tap on and off - those of us caught in the middle can do nothing about it.
 
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I wonder if the decision to open gardens extends to the "rich" upper class that also often open their properties and gardens to the public to earn money these days? :rolleyes:

But then we have seen this past week it is one rule for them and another for the rest of us....
 
Pertinax said:
I do agree the layout of the vast majority of zoos/wildlife parks is on a par with all those other places you mention, particularly all those that are in rural areas, which again is probably the majority of zoos and wildlife parks. In fact I can only think of three that are conjoined with Theme Parks; Chessington, Flamingo Park/Land and Drayton Manor, though there may be a few more- Tato Park in Northern Ireland? Anyway it is a very tiny %...
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West midland’s
 
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