Interesting the researchers put the Chester question to Hancock (a boy from Chester apparently) He has to personally engage with this now. The left wing press should have a fun weekend with this if we are lucky, and highlight the issue all weekend.
UK zoos & lockdown going forward...
- Thread starter TriUK
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Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
I do. There is no question that much been released to media, just to gain the story - since this started - and of course before, as it is the way some media departments work. As I said you do need to be very confident.
Threats to put down animals or feed them to each other, I guess grab the headlines. No-one would have ever expected Chester to handle the matter in any way different to the way they have; timing, content, presentation and contacts are exactly as would be expected. We are all fortunate that it has raised the subject as it has. Countless other such attempts have been made (large and small) without such success.
That single question may have helped all the zoos in the UK immensely....
I don't think this is a political persuasion issue (I would've avoided bringing it up if I did!), but I do feel it is relevant. As you say, this is a very difficult situation and mistakes along the way are not necessarily unexpected. But there is a definite difference in style currently compared to any of our previous four prime ministers when it comes to mistakes, or apparent mistakes, made by themselves or their team. They will do extraordinary gymnastics to avoid the words 'I'm sorry', in ways I've seen no British government do before.
As noted above, there are any number of legitimate reasons for Matt Hancock to fudge the answer a bit tonight - but the current administration's pick-and-choose attitude to responsibility (and, by extension, the truth) worries more on this issue of zoos than anything. They say they're looking into it, and I'm not sure how much to believe them.
On a more positive note, the parliamentary debate is something that is definitely a move in the right direction so I'm off to formulate my own email to my MP.
'left wing' press? I think that consists of the guardian and the mirror? Not much readership for them to have a 'fun weekend' sadly!!
Kevin Maguire of the"Mirror" is often on the Jeremy Vine radio programme. He delights in underlining Tory mistakes especially if it can easily be conveyed to his readership, this just his sort of campaign.
I hope you are right
Be grateful you’re not currently living in the US then!
Well, quite..!
Anywho, my epistle has been sent to my MP - fingers crossed.
All the local and surrounding MPs from near Chester have all written to the government, along with the local council themselves, Hancock said himself, they need to be covid secure, Chester has been inspected and have a letter proving they are. They don't have to loose face saying they got it wrong, just pass the situation to local councils, they can seem a site safe to open or not.
taun
Well-Known Member
Why should they have to be inspected? Supermarkets or any other of the shops that are being allowed to open don't. Its quite clear to all zoos that they need to put measures in place to help keep people safe.
Who decided how many people are allowed into supermarkets at any one time?
Again it one rule some and completely different rules for the rest. They need to be consistent.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Whilst this sounds like a good idea to some, and could perhaps be a way of saving face, I would urge caution when suggesting or petitioning for it.
It would produce highly variable and potentially questionable results, and put peoples livelihoods and the future of our zoos in the hands of a small number of junior individuals who could have anti-zoo leanings.
We had our 5 star food hygiene rating reduced from 5 stars to 3 stars by one local council officer for the sole reason that one of our shop staff had put their lunch sandwiches in a storage fridge. It had no impact on the park, but there was no appeal process. This council officer later resigned her position, but started a process which continues and which I cannot detail here.
All I can say, is that putting such power in the hands of one junior bureaucrat, is potentially VERY dangerous.
Which is pretty much what I suggested might happen upthread. It shifts responsibility to the licensing authority rather than the government which may appeal to the govt. Not saying it's appropriate, just that it might be where we end up.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
We have been told the English Wildfowl Trust sites have indeed been given site-specific exemptions to the ban on zoo opening, and will be open from Wednesday 10th June. They are full zoo licence holders and full members of BIAZA. Their permission is to specifically open the 'nature reserve' part of their sites to allow public exercise, and the 'zoo part' has to remain closed. This is the definition given, with no explanation.
My memories of all the Trust centres I have visited, are that there were no such separations. Some may have natural areas attached - but their cars-parks, reception areas and the main part of their sites were a mixture of exotic spp ('zoo part') and free-loading wild birds (as in any zoo I guess?), and the two can in no-way be separated. This presumably means if you visit Wednesday onwards and see any spp not native to Britain (and therefore a zoo animal, and thus housed in the 'zoo part'), they are breaking the law.
Could anyone who visits, post what is actually in place?
My memories of all the Trust centres I have visited, are that there were no such separations. Some may have natural areas attached - but their cars-parks, reception areas and the main part of their sites were a mixture of exotic spp ('zoo part') and free-loading wild birds (as in any zoo I guess?), and the two can in no-way be separated. This presumably means if you visit Wednesday onwards and see any spp not native to Britain (and therefore a zoo animal, and thus housed in the 'zoo part'), they are breaking the law.
Could anyone who visits, post what is actually in place?
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The Guardian have picked the story up, but other media now giving bulk of output to "Black Lives " protests. Rotten timing.
I think they could separate off the two sections at Martin Mere, but not sure how many customers they would attract on that basis.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Yes, I've just checked Google maps and the 'zoo' part does indeed look to be a separate square with the mere to one side and other wetlands below. I've only been to Slimbridge and Washington (save Peakirk of course) and I dont recall either being dividable...? - but this was in the days before the second 'W' was introduced. Maybe they are different now?
At Slimbridge that would mean; parking in the carpark, going through the covered reception area, and then access to the walkway that leads to several bird hides overlooking(first) the Rushy Pen and then further hides overlooking the fields and ponds down toward the Severn Estuary and the new tall hide(forget its name). It would mean the enclosed pens of exotic waterfowl would not be open, or presumably the other hides at the other end of the site which can only be accessed by passing through them. Quite what the 'exercise' involved in walking down to the bird hides is, I'm not sure....might as well walk down a country lane... As mentioned above, Martin Mere can be similarly split between the access to the wild bird hides and the walkthrough waterfowl pens holding the exotic waterfowl. Both Welney & Caelaverock have no exotic collections. Washington & Peakirk I know nothing about their layouts. Arundel I can't remember exactly but they could probably close off the waterfowl collections. But without them there is little to see otherwise, no more than on a local bird reserve....
Basically at this time of year(summer) there is little to see from the bird hides anyway, as all the wild waterfowl species are absent. At this time of year the captive('zoo'?) collection is the main attraction.
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Yes, at Martin Mere you can access all the wild bird hides without entering the waltkhrough pinioned waterfowl areas I think. Not much to see though, particularly in summer. Just a bird reserve like any other reedbed/lake area.
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