Unacceptable North American gorilla facilities

Z

zooman

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
Wondering what gorillas in North America are in unacceptable facilities.

Pittsburgh, would be at the top of the list of zoos, that l have seen.
Cleveland, l hear is also not acceptable.
Brookfield, why is it acceptable to have captive gorillas without an outdoor area?

How many zoos are also keeping silverbacks in off exhibit areas?

Just to be clear, l honestly do-not doubt that the people responsible for the care of gorillas. At all zoos in USA, do there very best with what they have to work with.
 
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zooman said:
How many zoos are also keeping silverbacks in off exhibit areas?
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I think Jane Dewar gave us a breakdown of the US collections which have 'spare' male Gorillas, probably this is a similar % of the population as in Europe. What was interesting to me was that fewer of these seemed to be in 'bachelor' or all male groups than in Europe, with the surplus American males mainly being scattered about in zoos holding extra silverbacks in ones ,two's and three's, probably offshow in some cases. Hence the premise behind Gorilla Haven, I think, though so far they still only have their two males 'Joe' and 'Oliver' on site.
 
Thx Snowleopard, l had forgotten that thread. A thread that really does show how off the track we can go here at zoochat!

Arizona Docent what is happening at Rio Grande Zoo in Albuquerque. They certainly have a large collection.
LINA
HUERFANITA
MATADI
MARCUS
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HOPE
PIERRE PONT
MASHUDU
TULIVU
HASANI
 
Pertinax, l understand that this situation with sikverbacks off exhibit can change for the better or worse at all times. Wondering what the status is today?
 
zooman said:
Pertinax, l understand that this situation with sikverbacks off exhibit can change for the better or worse at all times. Wondering what the status is today?
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I can't speak for the Gorillas in the US, except to say I think surplus males are more scattered around their zoos than in Europe where we now have about half a dozen working bachelor groups ( at Port Lympne x2, Paignton (UK),La Boissiere (France), BeekesBergen Safari(holland) Schmiding (Austria), Opole and soon/now Warsaw(Poland) & Loro Parc(Tenerife).

Maybe Snowleopard or another American chatter can elaborate on the situation in the US. How many actual 'working' bachelor groups have you got these days?
 
There are bachelor groups of gorillas in these major zoos: Disney's Animal Kingdom, Zoo Atlanta, Riverbanks Zoo, Sedgwick County, St. Louis, Omaha and Los Angeles, but they vary in size from a couple of gorillas to a larger troop. Also, there are probably a few other collections sprinkled throughout the continent with all-male troops, and maybe someone knows if Louisville Zoo has a bachelor group. Some of those zoos I listed focus exclusively on bachelor groups, such as Riverbanks, Sedgwick County and St. Louis (apparently the first zoo in North America to establish a bachelor group).
 
In Cleveland we have only two male gorillas in one of the worst gorilla exhibits I have seen.
 
snowleopard said:
There are bachelor groups of gorillas in these major zoos: Disney's Animal Kingdom, Zoo Atlanta, Riverbanks Zoo, Sedgwick County, St. Louis, Omaha and Los Angeles, but they vary in size from a couple of gorillas to a larger troop.
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That is pretty much the same number as in Europe where similarly the group sizes fluctuate but are currently as follows;
Paignton 6. La Boissiere 3. Schmiding 3. Beekesbergen 4 (siblings from Apenheul) Opole 3(siblings from Rotterdam) Warsaw 2 (more expected) Loro Parc 7. Port Lympne- 10 (5.1.2 & 2.)

I am pretty sure the St Louis bachelor group was the first time it was tried anywhere in the World. The first in Europe(though actuallyt the Canary Islands) was Loro Parc in Tenerife -though Port Lympne were doing it too about the same time.

I'm pretty sure Jane Dewar provided a list of 'surplus males' in the US which seemed to include quite a few more zoos than the above- I will see if I can find the relevant thread.
 
Try to see if this will let me post. Couple of points:
1. I heard from a reliable source that when Dian Fossey saw Brookfield Zoo's Tropic World for the first time, she said something like, 'it was more Tragic World' which is the name I've adopted for it too. Gorillas there and at Buffalo live decades without ever feeling fresh air or sunshine.
2. Off the top of my head, I believethe SSP has reduced the number of single males from about 15 to 6 in the 2009 recommendations, including moving Oliver out of Gorilla Haven to be socialized in a zoo. So that's going in the right direction.
3. Approx. half USA zoos have both indoor and outdoor exhibits. The other half only have outdoor public viewing, which means during bad weather, gorillas are kept in night dens or holding - most of those being less than ideal, with a couple exceptions, like Dallas and Kansas City. Jane Dewar
 
snowleopard said:
The Brookfield Zoo's atrocious 30 year-old exhibit is a plastic bowl where visitors peer down on the gorillas from every possible direction. Everything is fake except for the hay, and this photo basically shows the entire enclosure:
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There are a few 'baddies' in Europe too. Krefeld still has no outdoors at all. Heidleburg's is tiny. Even the famous Basel has only a tiny outdoor cage though they are finally changing that soon. Stuttgart's is very old/outdated. And of course in the UK there's Twycross with their infamous 1960's designs...:(

Even worse probably are one or two East European zoos which still keep pairs and singles in old style 'cages'
 
Bwindi said:
2. Off the top of my head, I believethe SSP has reduced the number of single males from about 15 to 6 in the 2009 recommendations, including moving Oliver out of Gorilla Haven to be socialized in a zoo. So that's going in the right direction.
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Hi Jane. Would that big reduction be caused by these males going to fill gaps in breeding groups, or by adding them to male groups and so reducing their solitary status? Probably some of each I guess?
 
As is the case now with AZA elephant husbandry standards. How do we get them to do the same for gorillas. It was AZA who changed this?

HI Jane, where is Oliver going to? You must feel heart broken to see him go and yet elated at the same time you sensitive soul you. As l know how much he means to you, as we all do from your blog. Also how much you have wanted him to be with other gorillas. Is he getting some female company?
 
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Most single males are being either moved to social situations (Ernie, Oliver for example) or are going to be singly housed near other gorillas, with plans for future socialization (ie: when older silverbacks pass on, etc).

Yes, I'll miss Oliver more than life itself, but Gorilla Haven has never been about me - it's all about doing what's best for the gorillas, and since GH can't accept more animals** to be with Oliver, moving him to a zoo is a good thing. It's a bit premature to "announce" which zoo yet, but it's a good move, and while not a day trip for me to visit, it's not out on the west coast, at least!

**due to the poor economy and lack of $ support from zoos.

Jane
 
STUART: Using the link you sent me, I can post replies, but when I get the URL of responses to my posts, it lets me read them, but not reply to them. What's up with that?
 
zooman said:
Arizona Docent what is happening at Rio Grande Zoo in Albuquerque. They certainly have a large collection.
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It is a small grass yard, with no trees or foliage, just a wooden jungle gym. It would be identical to putting a gorilla family in the front yard of a typical suburban lawn.
 
Bwindi said:
STUART: Using the link you sent me, I can post replies, but when I get the URL of responses to my posts, it lets me read them, but not reply to them. What's up with that?
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I have no idea?

Hopefully Sim, Mark or Ben are redaing this.

Actually l cannot see how to report this post? As this would obviously do it.:confused:
 
@Pertinax: Riverbanks Zoo (3.0), Zoo Granby in Quebec (4.0), Detroit Zoo (3.0), Kansas City (4.0), Knoxville Zoo (3.0), Jacksonville Zoo (3.0) although they have 2 males in one exhibit and 1 in another enclosure, Como Zoo (3.0), St. Louis Zoo (3.0) and Sedgwick County Zoo (8.0) all have nothing but bachelor groups, and there isn't a female gorilla in sight. Add to that the previously mentioned Disney's Animal Kingdom, Zoo Atlanta and Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo and that makes 12 North American zoos with bachelor groups of gorillas with a minimum of 3 males.
 
Snowleopard, did you deliberatley not count single or pairs of male gorillas. Or are there not any in your research?

What conditions are these animals kept in is what l am tyrying to establish. As many zoos may keep there silverbacks off exhibit in less than ideal enviroment. As has definatley been the case in the past.
 
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