Taronga Zoo Update on Taronga's Overseas Gorilla Troop

[Axl]

Here's some basic information on the gorilla's that have left the troop living at Taronga Zoo:

Shinda (F:1991): Lives at the Prague Zoo. No offspring.

Kijivu (F:1993): Lives at the Prague Zoo. Three offspring: Moja (F:2004), Tatu (M:2007) and Kiburi (M:2010)

Haoko (M:1993): Lives at the Ueno Zoo. One offspring: Komomo (F: 2009)

Anguka (F:1995): Lives at the Lisbon Zoo. No offspring.

Safiri (F:1996): Lives at Duisburg Zoo. One offspring: Kiburi (F:2008)

Shabani (M:1996): Lives at the Nagoya Zoo. No offspring.

Mbeli (F:2003): Lives at the Melbourne Zoo. No offspring.

The source of my information is located here: 0652 - KIBABU

Note: Sisters Kijivu and Safiri's latest offspring are both named Kibrui. One is male; one is female.

 

[kiang]

Thanks for the update, especially good news concerning Haoko, good to see gorillas breeding in Japan, it has benn too long.

 

[Jabiru96]

Here's some basic information on the gorilla's that have left the troop living at Taronga Zoo:

Shinda (F:1991): Lives at the Prague Zoo. No offspring.

Kijivu (F:1993): Lives at the Prague Zoo. Three offspring: Moja (F:2004), Tatu (M:2007) and Kiburi (M:2010)

Haoko (M:1993): Lives at the Ueno Zoo. One offspring: Komomo (F: 2009)

Anguka (F:1995): Lives at the Lisbon Zoo. No offspring.

Safiri (F:1996): Lives at Duisburg Zoo. One offspring: Kiburi (F:2008)

Shabani (M:1996): Lives at the Nagoya Zoo. No offspring.

Mbeli (F:2003): Lives at the Melbourne Zoo. No offspring.

The source of my information is located here: 0652 - KIBABU

Note: Sisters Kijivu and Safiri's latest offspring are both named Kibrui. One is male; one is female.

Thank you. I hope Shabani will eventually breed as he is quite a good looking silverback now.

 

[Axl]

Taronga's current troop comprise of silverback Kibabu (1977), adult females Mouila (1972), Kriba (1979) and Frala (1981) as well as young females Kimya (2005) and Kipenzi (2011) and young males Fataki (2003), Fuzu (2007) and Mahale (2008).

The current plans are to transfer Kibabu, Fataki and Fuzu to Orana Wildlife Park in New Zealand in 2013. It would seem likely that both Mouila and Frala will produce another baby in the next two years and any female offspring (including Kimya and Kipenzi) may stay to form a new troop with the planned arrival of a new silverback. Mahale will eventually leave the zoo as there are no available mates for him to breed with.

Source: http://www.oranawildlifepark.co.nz/news_2010.htm

 

[Axl]

Thank you. I hope Shabani will eventually breed as he is quite a good looking silverback now.

Thank you to both you and Kiang for your quick replies

It's great news about Haoko and I hope too that Shabani will breed soon. He is currently at the zoo with two females, one born in 1972 and her daughter born in 2003 so I don't think a birth will be too long away for either of these animals.

 

[Jabiru96]

Taronga's current troop comprise of silverback Kibabu (1977), adult females Mouila (1972), Kriba (1979) and Frala (1981) as well as young females Kimya (2005) and Kipenzi (2011) and young males Fataki (2003), Fuzu (2007) and Mahale (2008).

The current plans are to transfer Kibabu, Fataki and Fuzu to Orana Wildlife Park in New Zealand in 2013. It would seem likely that both Mouila and Frala will produce another baby in the next two years and any female offspring (including Kimya and Kipenzi) may stay to form a new troop with the planned arrival of a new silverback. Mahale will eventually leave the zoo as there are no available mates for him to breed with.

Mahale will need to be transferred to Orana one or two years after his father and brothers as they will be acquiring a new silverback. If Rigo can't breed with M'beli at Melbourne (most certainly not), then she will most probably come back to Taronga so they can have a breeding group of 1.6, but by then Mouila might be too old, so it will be 1.5 breeding animals + 0.1 non-breeders.

 

[Jabiru96]

Thanks for the update, especially good news concerning Haoko, good to see gorillas breeding in Japan, it has benn too long.

By videos I have seen of him, Haoko actually takes his daughter away from her mother and plays with her under a sheltered viewing cave area, but the mother lets him do it. I'm not sure if it is inexperience or he is still fairly young so enjoys play?

 

[Jabiru96]

I never knew that through investigation (Gorilla Detective!) that Kibabu is related to M'juku at London and Tiny her baby. M'juku is the granddaughter of Kibabu's half sister.

 

[peacock]

Mahale will need to be transferred to Orana one or two years after his father and brothers as they will be acquiring a new silverback. If Rigo can't breed with M'beli at Melbourne (most certainly not), then she will most probably come back to Taronga so they can have a breeding group of 1.6...

Both of those assumptions seem unlikely to me.

 

[Jabiru96]

Both of those assumptions seem unlikely to me.

What do you mean? Taronga plans on getting a new silverback (it is known as they stated they will) and they can't keep Mahale with the silverback for too long, it could be potentially dangerous. I see no reason why Melbourne should keep a perfect breeding female in M'beli if their silverback can't do anything, maybe even send Johari over here as the new silverback would bring new blood to the region. That is unless Melbourne plan to import a new silverback in joint with Taronga, but I can't see that happening.

 

[peacock]

1) Melbourne will have absolutely no intention of phasing-out gorillas. They are currently building a multi million dollar second exhibit at their other property to hold their surplus males. Thats a big investment. The zoo is also internationally known for its gorillas. Thus i have no idea why you think they would give up and send away their two youngest females and halt breeding simply because they are having problems getting one of their silverbacks to naturally conceive.

2)The infant male currently at Taronga could end up just about anywhere. And silverback gorillas can be introduced into a troop with unrelated young males currently living within it. Happened in Melbourne.

 

[Jabiru96]

1) Melbourne will have absolutely no intention of phasing-out gorillas. They are currently building a multi million dollar second exhibit at their other property to hold their surplus males. Thats a big investment. The zoo is also internationally known for its gorillas. Thus i have no idea why you think they would give up and send away their two youngest females and halt breeding simply because they are having problems getting one of their silverbacks to naturally conceive.

2)The infant male currently at Taronga could end up just about anywhere. And silverback gorillas can be introduced into a troop with unrelated young males currently living within it. Happened in Melbourne.

1. This would be a great opportunity to mix groups both from Europe and the US by importing individuals. Bring in new blood. Still, Julia and G-Anne are compatible (just) for breeding so they could be intergrated with the new gorillas to form a 'fresh' group that would be valuable worldwide. I wouldn't want Johari to permanatly find her way to Taronnga, but she needs to breed and because she is young it is a good time to do so. An alternative option which would be easier for Melbourne and better (now that I think about it) would be AI from the new Taronga male. I'm not sure why I didn't think about it before! Werribee could easily (in the future) become a breeding facility as well and hold a large group along with Melbourne and Taronga (and Adelaide?).

2.The problem is, Melbourne's enclosure is many times bigger than Taronga's, so they can get away from each other. If you go to Youtube and type in "gorilla's fighting" the first two searches are gorillas at Taronga fighting with each other and chasing each other. Even the dominant male is mobbed by his females. He has to run in circles around the hotwired plants and logs to outrun them, whereas at Melbourne it is big enough to flee without a chase or climb up a tree that the silverback can't easily climb up. BTW, which Melbourne's are you referring to when you say they were integrated. Was it Johari with Rigo? Because a male is more likely to accept anothers offspring if it is female, simply because he can breed with her. And why not send Mahale away, they don't need him and he will just become a hinderance in Taronga's group.

 

[peacock]

1) Australia is part of the European program for gorillas. There is currently no mixing between the US and European programs (as far as i'm aware) as both have rather large populations with a high level of genetic diversity.

So thus being part of the EEP gorilla program, any suggested pairings are considered looking at Taronga and Melbourne as just two more zoos in Europe. Until recently, neither zoo had ever traded in zoo-bred gorillas - both had sent their animals overseas to Europe. So i wouldn't expect transfers between the two to continue as a common theme.

I expect that Melbourne will resort again to AI with Rigo and their females in order to breed. Failing that, they may ask for a new male from Europe.

Regarding the mixing of males, I was talking about the days when Melbourne had a troope lead by silverback Bulluman, that also contained young males Motaba and Mzuri (Ya-Kwanza) of which neither were his sons.

 

[peacock]

On a side note, I'd be interested to know how other zoos overseas go with building up bachelor groups. Surely not all groups contain related, bonded males. What sort of make up and considerations take place?

 

[Jabiru96]

1) Australia is part of the European program for gorillas. There is currently no mixing between the US and European programs (as far as i'm aware) as both have rather large populations with a high level of genetic diversity.

So thus being part of the EEP gorilla program, any suggested pairings are considered looking at Taronga and Melbourne as just two more zoos in Europe. Until recently, neither zoo had ever traded in zoo-bred gorillas - both had sent their animals overseas to Europe. So i wouldn't expect transfers between the two to continue as a common theme.

I expect that Melbourne will resort again to AI with Rigo and their females in order to breed. Failing that, they may ask for a new male from Europe.

Regarding the mixing of males, I was talking about the days when Melbourne had a troope lead by silverback Bulluman, that also contained young males Motaba and Mzuri (Ya-Kwanza) of which neither were his sons.

Thanks for providing me with a debate. I really need to boost up my language skills and rebuttles. And i'm not being sarcastic saying that.

I feel that even though it isn't happening, eventually Europe will need gorillas sent from the US more so than the US needs from Europe. That is why Melbourne could be the start of it. I would hate for two young females to get wasted in their prime, and Rigo is one of the most genetically valuable gorillas in the world. I would actually prefer, to tell you the truth, AI from Rigo rather than a captive born male just because he is more valuable. His son Ya Kwanza is the exact same as his father, perfect looking male that can't do his job (lucky Ya Kwanza's son Mapema seems to know how to do "it" right!). Rigo's sperm could be inseminated into the Taronga female Mouila as well, for she is wild caught and valuable more than the others in her group. Therefore a new bloodline is formed .

However, I think Europe will need US gorillas to join their program for new blood, and Melbourne could be the place to do this. Mix European blood (Johari, M'beli) with US blood, or even mix wild blood (Rigo) with US blood. The offspring of the two mixes could be sent to their respective programs (European blood x US blood to US + wild blood x US blood to Europe). To me, that is a win-win situation. Of course it would be easier if Rigo had another son to breed from so we could have more time to extract sperm and breed from his genes.

Getting to the mixing of males, I am too young to remember the days of Buluman and Ya Kwanza! Never grew up knowing they were here or seeing them in real life. However, Melbourne could have been lucky that Buluman was a calm gorilla and did not attack the younger boys. It might also help that there were two so they could help defend each other and they might have been older than Mahale so were more of a struggle to handle for Buluman. Or another possibility was (like London is doing now) trick Buluman into thinking Motaba and Kwanza were his sons, but I have no idea. Maybe you can tell me how old they were and such?

All I know is Taronga would not risk it. Just like London is doing now, they will have to let the silverback accept Mahale before he can be introduced. I would be more worried with introducing Kipenzi to the new silverback, because she is younger and more fragile. Plus Mahale has no real use at Taronga, so he can either go to Orana with his father and brothers or a more risky decision would be going to Werribee with Motaba and his sons (most likely Taronga will choose the former).

Something that just came into my head is why not let Orana become the permanant bachelor facility and try to introduce all the bachelor boys together, sort of like Port Lympne or Paignton in the UK. If they can successfully be introduced, great, but if they can't, just build another enclosure for the Taronga boys, so that would mean there would be two bachelor groups in the region. This would free up space at Werribee so they can start a whole new family group.

 

[Jabiru96]

On a side note, I'd be interested to know how other zoos overseas go with building up bachelor groups. Surely not all groups contain related, bonded males. What sort of make up and considerations take place?

I know Paignton Zoo in the UK has a bachelor group with males that I think came from everywhere. I seem to remember reading that to successfully integrate different gorillas into a bachelor group you need to do it young so they can bond with each other and sort out a pecking order. But I believe Paignton (and Port Lympne?) is more of a temporary bachelor group with males leaving and new males coming in.

 

[Jabiru96]

Taronga's current troop comprise of silverback Kibabu (1977), adult females Mouila (1972), Kriba (1979) and Frala (1981) as well as young females Kimya (2005) and Kipenzi (2011) and young males Fataki (2003), Fuzu (2007) and Mahale (2008).

Noticed an error here, but maybe because it was written last year. They also have an almost 3 month old infant female named Kipenzi (born January).

 

[Pertinax]

Rigo is one of the most genetically valuable gorillas in the world. I would actually prefer, to tell you the truth, AI from Rigo rather than a captive born male just because he is more valuable.

Getting to the mixing of males, I am too young to remember the days of Buluman and Ya Kwanza! Never grew up knowing they were here or seeing them in real life. However, Melbourne could have been lucky that Buluman was a calm gorilla and did not attack the younger boys.

Melbourne seem to persist in making that untrue statement about Rigo, but really the most genetically valuable Gorillas are the ones that have no relatives/descendants and have so far never bred. There are plenty of those still around but sadly most of them are unsuitable for breeding(too old, socially no good, infertile etc etc) . Rigo doesn't really count on either score and with each offspring his grandson Mapema fathers at Duisburg- I think he has three now- Rigo's genes are more secure and he becomes less genetically valuable. (Rigo's son YaKwanza at jersey may not count as a breeder anymore now but the line is secure through Mapema). At Melbourne both G.Anne(herself the only offspring of her parents) and Julia(wildborn) have only one descendant/offspring each and so are both technically more 'genetically valuable ' perhaps than Rigo- who has four!

I believe AI with Rigo will almost certainly be a total waste of time. His age means his semen will most probably now be of poor quality/low motility but they will have to do it to find that out. Its also a very difficult process to gain success with (Melbourne still being one of the few that have ever succeeded- and that was only the once, with YK.)

When Buluman was the group silverback he was gentle, elderly and tolerant. I think he would have tolerated almost any male gorilla under a certain age.

 

[Pertinax]

On a side note, I'd be interested to know how other zoos overseas go with building up bachelor groups. Surely not all groups contain related, bonded males. What sort of make up and considerations take place?

The first European bachelor group was at Loro Parc in the Canary Islands. Its comprised of several(7) unrelated males that were brought together as youngsters with one silverback and they have since grown up and stayed together. It was a case of which males needed to be housed liked this as being surlpus in their groups/zoos. Two more were added more recently. One male later left to go into a breeding group, but generally its a static group of silverbacks now, mostly ones which are either unsuitable(handraised or genetically) or not required for breeding. There is little interaction between any of them though they do still live together- at least outdoors.

Port Lympne's contain mostly related males taken out of their Howletts breeding groups when aged between 5-7 and then kept together. Sometimes they have been amalgamated from different groups, sometimes from the same one. There has been some fighting as these groups reach adulthood, with one or two adult males having to live seperately on a permanent basis. 2 or 3 of these groups of related males have recently been relocated to other places e.g. Malaysia, Hungary and France. The oldest group of five adult silverbacks is to go to Rhenen Zoo and possibly another younger group will soon go to Longleat?

Paignton get theirs mostly as handraised young from the Stuttgart nursery. They have one senior Silverback male(Pertinax) and several younger males, some of which are related to each other, some not. Mixing unrelated young ones together is not a problem. In the past several males have left this group as they mature, to go into breeding groups, which is the most ideal situation, as having just a single adult male 'in charge' with yonger ones seems to work well too. In some respects this is the most successful bachelor group and the age gap between Pertinax and his younger companions has got bigger over time with each change of animals, and that seems to help too- the current young ones seem to respect him even more.

Other small groups of 2-4 animals have been created more recently in Europe too e.g. at BeekesBergen, Opole, Valencia and Warsaw. These are now usually made up of one older silverback and two or three younger males, they can have either related or unrelated animals in them, though it doesn't seem to matter a lot as young males always seem to be able to get along okay even if they haven't previously known each other and they also respect the older one.

The Melbourne/werribee and (soon) Orana groups evidentlyfollow this model. But experience has shown repeatedly that while males in bachelor groups get on okay as young animals (either related or unrelated) with just one full adult in the group, it doesn't always work as mature animals when there can be fighting, or at best the animals just mostly ignore each other.

America seem to have a different system, with a lot of pairs or trios of males living together in some of their Gorilla-holding zoos on a more temporary basis. But with few longerterm or harmonious groups. It is not a situation that occurs in the wild.

 

[Pertinax]

By videos I have seen of him, Haoko actually takes his daughter away from her mother and plays with her under a sheltered viewing cave area, but the mother lets him do it. I'm not sure if it is inexperience or he is still fairly young so enjoys play?

It isn't really normal behaviour but Gorillas in captivity do a lot of things they wouldn't do in the wild. A more experienced female probably wouldn't allow it and an older male would not be interested. Its okay if there is no roughness and he gives the baby back.