viable/non viable species

J

jay

Well-Known Member
20+ year member
There has been so many species mentioned that are now considered 'non viable' or phasing out eg Himalayan Tahr, guenons etc. So is there a definate list of the viable species?

I'm quite sure about the following
Asian Elephant
Lion
sumatran tiger
gorilla
chimp
sumatran orang
merrkats
red panda
asian otters
white rhino
cheetah
african wild dog


other which I'm fairly sure of
sun bears
snow leopards
black rhino
Silvery gibbon
bison
cotton tops


animals which I personally have my doubts about
giraffe
zebra
 
I would be very cautious about this thread - without actively managing some of the regional studbooks, or having a very thorough knowledge of all the specimens in a particular species, in every zoo, and all of their ancestors, it is not possible to determine the viability of any species. It would be too easy for forum users to start compiling unsubstantiated lists of viable and non-viable species and have them circulating around the place, with little, if any, credible data behind them.

And all species in the region will only be viable for a certain time, without additional imports. This means therefore, that except for species that have importation bans, all species in the region are potentially viable.

And viability and phasing out are quite different things - you should at least specify which list you are adding these species to. Species are not phased out just because they are not viable, or cannot be imported. There's a whole lot more thought goes into regional species prioritisation apart from viability.

Just a thought. :)
 
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Not at all zoo boy. Just trying to make sure that the information that is posted on this forum has a shred of accuracy about it. It would be nice to read accurate information on this forum now, wouldn't it?
 
ok zoopro I get a hint of disaproval there.
Let's talk about the animals that zoos are likely to keep and focus on (that would be all the species that I listed I assume). What species are definately 'phase out'
The reason that I created this list is because of my concern of lack of variability between the zoos. Visiting the zoos I have noticed a continual sameness occuring, especially between Melbourne and Taronga, and to a lesser degree Adelaide and Perth. The NZ zoos have some species that we don't and are very unlikely to ever have (sprinbok and in the near future flamingo). Taronga,Melbourne and Adelaide all have a large focus on South East Asian Rainforest multi species exhibits with much the same species, minus the eles at Adelaide (and this is not to knock them as I think that they are great), The open range zoos are African plains focused (rhino, lion, cheetah, giraffe, zebra, oryx at all ) and so on.
I know all the arguemnts

1. cannot import ungulates
2. low number of zoos and places to house extra animals
3. Need to think regionally and to work together
4. cost of continual imports
5. threat of escapees

and I'm sure there are others.


I'd like to know what we are likely to continue to see in our zoos in 10/20/50 years time (my lifespan). This is of course theoretical as things change all the time and we can't see into the future.
 
Hey Jay, I'm not disapproving at all, I think it's a great topic for discussion. The point I was trying to make, is if we are going to talk about the viability of species - this should be based on facts, not just ideas.

And similarly, the ARAZPA TAGs work with all the member zoos to put together regional and institutional collection plans, and to categorise all species in the region, include those recommended for phasing out - it might be more useful to get the real list of phase out species, rather than people just guessing.

I'm not trying to put a damper on this thread, I just think it should be credible.
 
so lets talk and not argue anymore

in my view, we have to deal with what we got to the best of our ability with out, in breeding. it will be hard, but it means our community will have to be more co-operative than ever.

i would love to see the diversity of ungualtes remain some what large, well with what we have got, we will loose kudu, as the male i think is nuetured, and elands may be in a pickle, as i heard there, although theres close to 100 in the region, arazpa institutes only have 2 enitre males.

giraffes are a zoo icon, and must be maintained, which i think means our new zealnd zoos should try and import new blood and then from there the off spring exported to oz zoos. maybe welligtion was it, who has the bachelors, should start to move them to oz the create a new breeding centre in new zealnd, to some what supply austrlia until we can import again.

another option, is although they carry the same quarrintine retrictions, is embryo transfer and a.i. embryo transfer would be best as it means we get totally new blood, exept just the males new bllodlines in A.I. we could import straws of seamen, eggs, to oz, for the meantime, instead of an entire new animal, may be some what cheaper than an enitre living animal, though this probably creates more problems than it solves.

there also in my word, needs to be more investigation in to the private collection of australia, i know a zoo in griffith has bison (which a new male jst arrived at dubbo), eland (who came from dubbo i beleive) and prezwaski horses (again more than likely excess stock from the australain progarm).
 
ok doky
so is there a definitive list for phase out species? Several people have quoted species as definates but i haven't seen such a list.
Zoo boys idea of investigating the non arazpa institutions for new bloodlines is a good thought but I can understand the problems with records not being kept etc. Maybe they are already closely related to zoo kept stock?
To those who have more intimate relations with zoos than I do provide insight into why certain species are phase out and others are not?
 
well we shopuld try to discover at least some, i mean some may have records, acurate , and we can at least use them. so any1 know of any giraffes running around?
 
zoopro is right guys. any species that isn't banned from import can be considered potentially viable and assuming no species can be imported again virtually all are unviable...

maybe this conversation should revolve more around phase-out, phase-in and maintain?
 
Giraffes in NZ

At Wellington Zoo ||
We have two adult hybrid giraffes at Wellington Zoo. Ricky was born in 1987 and Tisa was born in 1990. One of their offspring, Ndoki, was born in 1998 and is now at Hamilton Zoo. Rukiya, was born in September 2001 and was transferred to Auckland Zoo in September 2002. Their latest offspring, Zahara is doing well with her parents here at Wellington Zoo.

So Wellington Zoo has a breeding pair , and a female juvenile .

We know what Hamilton has .....

Auckalnd Zoos website has limited information , but I recall seeing 3 there in October 2006

Auckland Zoo is one of a number of zoos contributing to a captive-bred breeding programme for giraffe (classifed by CITES as ‘Conservation Dependent’) in the Australasian region.
so we can assume that they are trying to breed giraffes there ?

and this is recent news from Orana Park in Christchurch;
3 November 2006

Second Baby Giraffe for Orana - A beautiful baby Giraffe was born at Orana Wildlife Park on Monday night!

Two baby Giraffes are now on show at Orana Wildlife Park . Park staff are delighted to report that, following a very quick labour, a healthy male Giraffe calf was born at 7.30pm on Monday night. The latest arrival is the second calf born within a month at Orana. Zuri, aged eight years, is the proud mother and this is her third calf.

“The calf is gorgeous; I haven't seen a Giraffe baby as strong as this wee guy. He stood up on his first attempt and stayed standing for about one hour. Normally Giraffe calves have a number of goes at getting to their feet and usually crash a few times. We think he was so strong due to the quick labour meaning the calf wasn't stressed or tired†says Animal Collection Manager, Ian Adams.

This is a busy year for Orana especially relating to managing its Giraffe herd of eight (which includes the baby). In the near future two of our Orana–bred males, named Flynn and Orly (both two years old), will be transferred to a private wildlife park in the North Island. In preparation for their move, Flynn and Orly have been separated from the other Giraffes.

“It is great to have two baby Giraffes again. Zuri and her youngster will be introduced to the rest of the herd soon. This is an exciting time for Orana. Along with two baby Giraffes we also have two, six-week-old Ringtailed Lemur babies so there is plenty for visitors to see at present. As well as the animal babies, our fantastic new Tiger habitat will be opened at the end of November so we are looking forward to a busy summer†comments Adams.

Orana Wildlife Park has been involved in the international captive breeding programme for Rothschild's Giraffe for over 20 years and 13 babies have been born (including the recent addition). Rothschild's are a sub–species of Giraffe which are endangered due to habitat loss and hunting.
 
Nigel said:
Auckland Zoo is one of a number of zoos contributing to a captive-bred breeding programme for giraffe (classifed by CITES as ‘Conservation Dependent’) in the Australasian region.
so we can assume that they are trying to breed giraffes there ?
Click to expand...

A zoo contributing to a captive breeding program doesn't necessarily mean that the zoo will breed animals. It can mean holding surplus animals (non-breeding) of either sex (or a group of both sexes), holding a bachelor group to help with relocation of surplus males etc.

Auckland has produced a high proportion of male calves in recent years, and they have another calf on the way. Preventing breeding under these circumstances to avoid having additional surplus males, either by using contraceptives or by sterilisation, can be a useful tool, but the animals are still considered to be part of the regional breeding program.

Auckland currently have a male and two female subspecies hybrids (or unknown subspecies), and a male Rothschilds giraffe.
 
Has auckland lost one if its older females recently?
Nor is it the only zoo in NZ to be producing lots of male calves, Oranas have consistantly produces males for the past six years, with one exception.
 
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