Water deer(Hydropotes inermis) at zoo

dt644

dt644

Well-Known Member
5+ year member
Ummm...It's not that important, but it's because I'm curious about how many water deer at foreign zoos, and how foreigners thinks about water deer.

To briefly explain the water deer, it is known that there are Korean subspecies(ssp. argyropus) and Chinese subspecies(ssp. inermis), but that known Korea peninsula is a famous major habitat of wild water deer more than China. both females and males have no horns, but grown males has large size fangs. and like the name 'water' deer, they are good swimmers.

Water deer is called "Gorani" in Korea. they are the most common deer animal in Korea today and also the most frequently rescued mammal in the wildlife rescue center in korea. their screaming sound is famous for its eccentricity, and also an animal that dies a lot of by roadkill. In addition, many Korean farmers often consider the water deer a negative animal as it often eats up crops.

DSC_0107.JPG
Korean water deer at National Institute of Ecology.
took this photo 01/14/2018.​

But due to the fact that they live in Korea a lot, they are considered one of the most representative animals in Korea among Koreans interested in animals. however, water deer are few in today South Korean zoos, only one zoo known has water deer. that is National Institute of Ecology in Seocheon-gun.

As I mentioned earlier, I wrote this because I was curious about how water deer is being treated in foreigners, so I would appreciate it if you could write it down freely.
 

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dt644 said:
Ummm...It's not that important, but it's because I'm curious about how many water deer at foreign zoos, and how foreigners thinks about water deer.

To briefly explain the water deer, it is known that there are Korean subspecies(ssp. argyropus) and Chinese subspecies(ssp. inermis), but that known Korea peninsula is a famous major habitat of wild water deer more than China. both females and males have no horns, but grown males has large size fangs. and like the name 'water' deer, they are good swimmers.

Water deer is called "Gorani" in Korea. they are the most common deer animal in Korea today and also the most frequently rescued mammal in the wildlife rescue center in korea. their screaming sound is famous for its eccentricity, and also an animal that dies a lot of by roadkill. In addition, many Korean farmers often consider the water deer a negative animal as it often eats up crops.

View attachment 423864
Korean water deer at National Institute of Ecology.
took this photo 01/14/2018.​

But due to the fact that they live in Korea a lot, they are considered one of the most representative animals in Korea among Koreans interested in animals. however, water deer are few in today South Korean zoos, only one zoo known has water deer. that is National Institute of Ecology in Seocheon-gun.

As I mentioned earlier, I wrote this because I was curious about how water deer is being treated in foreigners, so I would appreciate it if you could write it down freely.
Click to expand...
There is an introduced population of Chinese Water Deer in the East of England. They live in reed beds and corn fields
 
Tim May said:
There are about thirty free-range Chinese water deer at Whipsnade Zoo.
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Oh, that's quite a lot. I think there are many kinds of deer in the Whipsnade zoo. May I ask if water deer is popular among them?
 
dt644 said:
Ummm...It's not that important, but it's because I'm curious about how many water deer at foreign zoos, and how foreigners thinks about water deer.

To briefly explain the water deer, it is known that there are Korean subspecies(ssp. argyropus) and Chinese subspecies(ssp. inermis), but that known Korea peninsula is a famous major habitat of wild water deer more than China. both females and males have no horns, but grown males has large size fangs. and like the name 'water' deer, they are good swimmers.

Water deer is called "Gorani" in Korea. they are the most common deer animal in Korea today and also the most frequently rescued mammal in the wildlife rescue center in korea. their screaming sound is famous for its eccentricity, and also an animal that dies a lot of by roadkill. In addition, many Korean farmers often consider the water deer a negative animal as it often eats up crops.

View attachment 423864
Korean water deer at National Institute of Ecology.
took this photo 01/14/2018.​

But due to the fact that they live in Korea a lot, they are considered one of the most representative animals in Korea among Koreans interested in animals. however, water deer are few in today South Korean zoos, only one zoo known has water deer. that is National Institute of Ecology in Seocheon-gun.

As I mentioned earlier, I wrote this because I was curious about how water deer is being treated in foreigners, so I would appreciate it if you could write it down freely.
Click to expand...

It should be noted that recognizing multiple subspecies of Chinese water deer is not based on a lot of evidence, either morphologically pr genetically. So it might better be treated as a monotypic species.
 
dt644 said:
Oh, that's quite a lot. I think there are many kinds of deer in the Whipsnade zoo. May I ask if water deer is popular among them?
Click to expand...

I doubt if many of the Whipsnade visitors would even notice them, or be interested if they did.
As a matter of interest, they are found locally to us but not in our immediate area. They are found mostly in the reclaimed low-lying areas to the east of the A1 road, known as 'The Fens'. Muntjac are common in our area along with a very few Roe. We use as much shot deer as food for our carnivores, as we can source. Most of this is Muntjac along with Fallow which are a serious agricultural pest in the midlands. Occasionally we have Water Deer brought in. It is shot opportunistically as is Muntjac, but I dont think farmers feel that the Water Deer is any particular issue. Along with the Brown Hare it is found in low densities and causes little damage. Both of these species are culled by farmers, often against their own personal wishes, as they attract illegal coursing and the resulting crime and intimidation; which the Police are largely uninterested in policing these days.
 
lintworm said:
It should be noted that recognizing multiple subspecies of Chinese water deer is not based on a lot of evidence, either morphologically pr genetically. So it might better be treated as a monotypic species.
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The subject of subspecies of water deer is part of my concern too. In particular, according to the results released in 2012 by the National Institute of Biological Resources said Chinese water deer and Korean water deer are genetically two percent different. but a paper published in Korea in 2014 said the water deer living in Korea has genetic characteristics of both subspecies, so which was quite confusing.

However, publishing news of Dr. Baek joon Kim's book named 《Hanguk gorani》 that reported at 2016 were said, the water deer were divided into two systems between 2.1 million and 1.3 million years ago. Dr Kim is a researcher at the National Institute of Ecology who earned his doctorate degree from his research on water deer. so...I decided to follow that water deer has two subspecies.

Unfortunately, I haven't read Hanguk gorani yet, so I don't know the details. I'll buy it and read it soon...
 
Andrew Swales said:
I doubt if many of the Whipsnade visitors would even notice them, or be interested if they did.
As a matter of interest, they are found locally to us but not in our immediate area. They are found mostly in the reclaimed low-lying areas to the east of the A1 road, known as 'The Fens'. Muntjac are common in our area along with a very few Roe. We use as much shot deer as food for our carnivores, as we can source. Most of this is Muntjac along with Fallow which are a serious agricultural pest in the midlands. Occasionally we have Water Deer brought in. It is shot opportunistically as is Muntjac, but I dont think farmers feel that the Water Deer is any particular issue. Along with the Brown Hare it is found in low densities and causes little damage. Both of these species are culled by farmers, often against their own personal wishes, as they attract illegal coursing and the resulting crime and intimidation; which the Police are largely uninterested in policing these days.
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Apparently... water deer are not popular at the foreign zoo too.

If the treatment of wild water deer in the U.K. is so, it does not seem to be much different from Korea. As shown on the Water deer page of the English Wikipedia, water deer are hunted in Korea. because many Koreans and the government also believe that the number is increasing because they cause a lot of damage to crops and have no natural enemies.

In Korea, water deer and wild boars are stipulated by law one of the harmful wild mammal. If State-certified hunters hunted them, the government rewards bounty to hunters according to the number of hunted animals. but hunting wild boars is dangerous, so water deer are often to be the main targets.

Water deer is a VU rated wild animal in the IUCN Red List, but there have many criticisms about it as it hunting water deer in its main habitat, Korea, without any statistics.
 
You said water deer has no natural enemy in Korea. What used to be their main predator in the past? Tigers?
 
Jana said:
You said water deer has no natural enemy in Korea. What used to be their main predator in the past? Tigers?
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Well...Of course, the tiger was a predator of water deer, but it's hard to specify only one. There were many carnivorous animals living in Korea. But if count only two, I think Amur leopard and Ussuri dhole. because I known, today russia and china's wild Amur tigers are likes boar more than deer.

The following is a summary of the animals lived in Korean Peninsula that I think have been eaten water deer.

  • Amur tiger
  • Amur leopard
  • Siberian lynx
  • Ussuri brown bear
  • Mongolian wolf
  • Ussuri dhole
  • Yellow-throated marten
  • Golden eagle

Among this lists, only Yellow-throated marten remain on the Korean Peninsula today, The martens are hunts and eats water deer, but their numbers are very few in wild. and Golden eagles are winter migratory birds in korea. So in winter, very rarely can be see golden eagles attacks water deer.

135000880915_20121013.JPG

This photo is taken by Korean photographer Jumoon Yoon.
in Seosan city, 2012.​


In additions, when the documentary I saw before about the wilds of the DMZ, the border between South Korea and North Korea, showed boars in the DMZ are eating roe deer. However, I don't think that wild boars living in the South korea will eat water deer often.
 
dt644 said:
The following is a summary of the animals lived in Korean Peninsula that I think have been eaten water deer.

  • Amur tiger
  • Amur leopard
  • Siberian lynx
  • Ussuri brown bear
  • Mongolian wolf
  • Ussuri dhole
  • Yellow-throated marten
  • Golden eagle

Among this lists, only Yellow-throated marten remain on the Korean Peninsula today, The martens are hunts and eats water deer, but their numbers are very few in wild. and Golden eagles are winter migratory birds in korea. So in winter, very rarely can be see golden eagles attacks water deer.
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I suspect that Steller's Sea Eagle will also opportunistically take water deer.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
I suspect that Steller's Sea Eagle will also opportunistically take water deer.
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Yes, the Steller's Sea Eagle is the largest and strongest of the eagles that come to Korea in winter. so I think they can hunt water deer if wanted, but...Most of the sea eagles that come to Korea eat fish while staying at rivers and beaches. So as I known, no one seen they catching water deer yet.

I could found this video. Perhaps the eagle in this video was confused because there were too many water deer.

And to tell about another story about the Stella's sea eagle in korea, Paldang dam in the korea, the famous about sea eagle's staying in winter. there is an interesting story about the between Steller's sea eagle, White-tailed eagle and Common merganser.

White-tailed eagles eat Common merganser. but sea eagles doesn't. Rather, they enjoy eating leftover fish by mergansers. therefore, Mergansers prefer to stay in the sea eagle's territory. because the sea eagle drive away the white-tailed eagle that invade their territory.
 
Is there a realistic opportunity that any of the eradicated species could return to Korea, either on natural way or by reintroduction? I think lynx could be a good one - they are big enough to kill water deer regularly and not big enough to be danger to people. Would farmers in Korea ccept lynx back?

Also, I am surprised that golden eagles hunt water deer in Korea. Within Central Europe, golden eagles don´t hunt roe deer or youngster of other deer species. They will scavenger on their body when they are road kill or so, but active hunting is extremely rare and usually it is just a clumsy try by immature bird. The picture you have shown captures young golden eagle in first winter.
 
Jana said:
Is there a realistic opportunity that any of the eradicated species could return to Korea, either on natural way or by reintroduction? I think lynx could be a good one - they are big enough to kill water deer regularly and not big enough to be danger to people. Would farmers in Korea ccept lynx back?

Also, I am surprised that golden eagles hunt water deer in Korea. Within Central Europe, golden eagles don´t hunt roe deer or youngster of other deer species. They will scavenger on their body when they are road kill or so, but active hunting is extremely rare and usually it is just a clumsy try by immature bird. The picture you have shown captures young golden eagle in first winter.
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I think the aforementioned animals are unlikely to be reintroduced to the today South korea. The Tiger & Leopard Conservation Fund in Korea(KTLCF). the most prestigious organization about tigers and leopards in Korea, believes can reintroduced a Amur leopard in south korea, but Amur leopards as well as known, they are very few number in zoo. and many South Koreans are generally skeptical of the reintroduction big size carnivore animal in to south korea because dangerous.

So, KTLCF aims to ensure that tigers, leopards which live in Russia and China today, grow their number reliably and moved into North Korea by their self and naturally live in the North Korean region too. So...I think in order to see them on the wild of Korean Peninsula again, South and North Korea must first be unified.


lynx in korea were famous their ferocious character. so once upon a time, Koreans thought that lynx is "a tiger cub abandoned by its mother, but survived alone."

And director Sooyong Park, who filmed Amur tigers in Russia for more than 1,000 hours, is even said in his book 《Great Soul of Siberia》 that his udege native friend saw a Siberian lynx hunts Manchurian wapiti alone.

However, in the historical records, lynx rarely lived in the southern part of the Korean Peninsula and is known to have lived in the northern part of the Korea. So it seems hard for lynx to live in South of Korea Peninsula.


It seems great that golden eagles hunt water deer, but Russian golden eagles are even more. They are known to hunt Manchurian sika deer larger than water deer.
 
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dt644 said:
The subject of subspecies of water deer is part of my concern too. In particular, according to the results released in 2012 by the National Institute of Biological Resources said Chinese water deer and Korean water deer are genetically two percent different. but a paper published in Korea in 2014 said the water deer living in Korea has genetic characteristics of both subspecies, so which was quite confusing.

However, publishing news of Dr. Baek joon Kim's book named 《Hanguk gorani》 that reported at 2016 were said, the water deer were divided into two systems between 2.1 million and 1.3 million years ago. Dr Kim is a researcher at the National Institute of Ecology who earned his doctorate degree from his research on water deer. so...I decided to follow that water deer has two subspecies.

Unfortunately, I haven't read Hanguk gorani yet, so I don't know the details. I'll buy it and read it soon...
Click to expand...

You might be interested in this review, if you have not already seen it:

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...view-on-the-water-deer-Hydropotes-inermis.pdf

A study on the lack of morphological differences between the subspecies can be found here:
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jvms/77/11/77_15-0037/_pdf

And a study on lack of genetic difference between both subspecies, but rather the existence of sympatric genetically somewhat distinct groups:
Two Sympatric Phylogroups of the Chinese Water Deer ( Hydropotes inermis ) Identified by Mitochondrial DNA Control Region and Cytochrome b Gene Analyses
 
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