what animals have trouble in capitvity

joe99 said:
it was moved not closed and I meant that are good places for pets. where animal needs are met and are in the best of care. the people that were there knew how to care for them and give them a great life. are there places like them for whales or polar bears? there enclosures in zoos are all they got. there are no sanctuaries for zoo polar bears or killer whales. I was meaning the way they are kept in zoos and sanctuaries not in the household
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A lot of exotic animal sanctuaries tend to hold animals that were originally from private owners. People keeping them as pets, entertainment industry, circus acts, etc. If the species is local, a sanctuary may take in wild ones that cannot survive in the wild. Zoos often don't have the space to take all the rescue animals in, so sanctuaries get formed.

As far as I'm aware, there haven't been many polar bears kept as pets or in entertainment in the US lately. (I believe they're protected under the Marine Mammal Protection Act) They're rather difficult to care for in captivity, even with a good zoo. Whales are rather difficult to obtain in the first place, (and in the US, I'm pretty sure it's not legal to keep one outside of research or public display) and it's pretty rare for a wild one to end up in a situation where it can't be returned to the wild, so there aren't many opportunities for one to end up in a sanctuary. Can't make a whale sanctuary if you don't have any whales to put in it, ya know?
 
Supposedly Black-collared Lovebirds don't do well in captivity due to the fact that they need a specific type of native fig in their diet. So do Grey-headed Lovebirds due to their skittishness and finicky breeding requirements. Red-headed Lovebirds also have finicky breeding requirements, they need a termites mound to nest in. Supposedly Lillian's Lovebirds are hard to breed as well. I have never seen them in the United States, I don't see how they would be allowed in because I imagine any specimens would be wild caught. If I were to see them they would definitely be zoo birds I don't see how anyone could get away with having them as private pets. None of these species are exactly rare in their native ranges though so there really wouldn't be any reason for a captive breeding program anyway unless there were very specific circumstances, e.g. some kind of scientific study that can't be done on wild birds
 
There's one small thing I would like to see changed in zoos. Let's presume all apes have a large and wonderful lush garden, spacious indoor quarters, friendly and apt service, and so on.
Still, some are moved occasionally, to breed or to form an all male group.
In continental Europe the chances are very high that they come to a country with a different language!
Why don't zoos require that all keepers working with intelligent animals able to understand us speak English to them? imho it could minimize the stress of being thrown into a different environment and a new family, if only a bit.

Just remember your last vacation in a country you didn't know jack of the local language.
 
@dunstbunny: why English and not Mandarin (or Spanish)? Or German (Hochdeutsch?) ;) And would you pay for the English lessons? I've seen great apes (as well as other animals) having problems understanding their keepers' English commands, in particular when said keepers were not native English speakers (i.e. the majority of the human population) and thus struggled with the language. And even on a national level, different dialects of the spoken language used when training can confuse zoo animals. As a German, you should know how tricky dialects can be:
http://www.sz-online.de/sachsen/neues-zebra-im-krefelder-zoo-kann-nur-saechsisch-312772.html

[For non-German speakers: a young zebra sent from an East to a West German zoo appeared to only react to commands spoken in a dialect similar to the one used at its original zoo]

And what are "intelligent animals"? How do you measure that? Just by their capability to follow your commands (in English)?
 
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LOLOL, thank you for the link, Batto!
and if the poor zebra had been used to English commands, it would surely have been easier :p

Yes, if I had unlimited money I would pay for the lessons.
English because Basic English is easy, and English is mandatory in most schools of non-English-speaking countries (and hopefully taught by teachers with received pronunciation). The other languages you mentioned are more difficult to learn.
I don't mean only commands, even in zoos with off-hand policy keepers talk to the animals, just the daily chit-chat. If you have a dog, you tell him about your day too -no clue about how much the dog understands- but he would surely feel deprived, if he hears only "sit!" "fetch!" or "food".

Intelligent is for me if an animal is able to understand more than commands, and I follow the motto in dubio pro reo, better to assume a higher level of intelligence than dumb down the animal. Hey, pigs are able to lead pals away from hidden food, if that isn't intelligent I don't know.

btw, what happened to the elephant-speak? When I was a kid most elephants were spoken to in this Indian-English mix, now they get their commands in the local language.
 
dunstbunny said:
LOLOL, thank you for the link, Batto!
and if the poor zebra had been used to English commands, it would surely have been easier :p
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I seriously, seriously doubt that; ever heard English spoken with a thick Thuringian accent?

dunstbunny said:
English is mandatory in most schools of non-English-speaking countries (and hopefully taught by teachers with received pronunciation).
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Sorry to say that, but being mandatory doesn't mean anything. Have you ever been at an average German school (or Austrian, Belgian, Czech...insert the nationality you find most apt) and "enjoyed" the average English lessons taught there by "zee" (most certainly not native English speaking) teacher? The results speak for themselves... (pun intended).

What do you consider "Basic" English; pidgin?:D
As for "more difficult to learn": difficult for whom? I guess that people speaking related Asian languages might find it easier to learn Mandarin than a totally different European language.

I usually don't talk with my dogs about my day; that's what you have your family, friends and other fellow humans for.:D

If just understanding human commands (what is meant with "more"-voicing commands oneself?) makes an animal intelligent in your pov, then wolves are less intelligent than dogs. Somehow, I doubt that.

dunstbunny said:
btw, what happened to the elephant-speak? When I was a kid most elephants were spoken to in this Indian-English mix, now they get their commands in the local language.
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The "elephant speak"(do you mean phrases used in circuses that originated from Indian mahouts?) went the way of the Völkerschauen, due to more and more elephants being born in Western zoos and not obtained from Asia as former working elephants.
 
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I know of a case where a man bought two draft horses from Quebec. He thought he would not have to do any more training. He had to almost fully retrain them. All they understood was French.
 
The recent divergence in used languages for zoo elephants can cause a little headache for their keepers. The old Czech and Slovak zoo tradition is a mix of Sinhalese (Sri Lanka) and English, taught to all elephants, regardless of their origin (India, Vietnam, Africa or circus...). But newly obtained elephants from Western Europe mostly understand only their native zoo language plus some English. So if you visit Prague and listen to keepers´ commands, you will hear pure Sinhalese for Janita and Tamara, German for Mekong, Dutch for Donna, a mix of Sinhalese and English for Gulab and Shanti and mostly English for Sita. Poor keepers. Maybe this could be standartized in future? Maybe elephant EEP could create a set dictionary of commands (English?) that would be taught to all newly born animals?
 
Batto, just to bring this to an end, I was only talking about Europe (Asian zoos are a different matter altogether.)
Jana and Wensleydale sort of proved my point with their posts, although I never thought of the keepers in that context, but in a way less confused keepers make for less troubled animals too!

And now we can go on with Wensleydale's bird question! :)
 
@Wensleydale: depending on the companion birds and the bodily parts they might be missing...

@dunstbunny: the zoo world in itself always was to a certain extent very international, and now is even more so, prompting to a lingua franca (which is currently English). However, I wouldn't press keepers to attend English courses just for that. And given the cacoepy of some zoo staff members (they're not supposed to linguists, you know ;) ), I wonder whether this would make understanding commands even more tricky for some animals. I remember observing a keeper in a prominent German zoo training a bonobo to fetch something. The commands were spoken in English, however with quite a broad German accent (the keeper, not the ape). The poor bonobo, originating from Apenheul (if I remember correctly), looked with what I would describe as quite a puzzled look at the keeper and brought him various things, before realizing what the keeper actually meant. Well, maybe said keeper should learn to speak English with a Dutch accent instead...;)
 
A lovebird cockatiel mixed cage. No body parts missing, the odd feather falls out occasionally between molts but anything could be causing that. They are kept away from the conures and the large parakeets because these particular individuals have proven themselves to be pushy and violent. That said Mr. Helicopter is actually the dominant bird in the room.
 
wensleydale said:
I have kept single Lovebirds with other species (eg Cockatiels). Where does this rank on the scale of acceptability?
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I have a feeling that when a single bird of one species is kept in a mixed group with other birds, particularly ones not closely related, it doesn't really recognise them and might just as well be living alone. Of course, sometimes a hybrid pair forms, but that is usually out of desperation and between closely related species.

I have know single foreign finches which behaved in very subdued fashion alone, but immediately become active again, singing etc when others of their own kind were added.
 
Helicopter has been around some of his cagemates since he was at his old home (he was adopted), being hand fed, so I'm not totally sure how he sees other lovebirds. He occasionally sleeps with his head under one of the cockatiels wings I have thought of introducing him to another lovebird, but it would need to be one that is in need of rehoming. He came with his old mate (I think it is a he) but mostly ignored her.
 
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