Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
I don't know either. Maybe imobilising all of them at the same time, taking into transport boxes, and putting in enclosures first for adaptation in captivity in situ in their natural range.
What animals will you IMPORT if given chance?
- Thread starter Nikola Chavkosk
- Start date
I don't know either. Maybe imobilising all of them at the same time, taking into transport boxes, and putting in enclosures first for adaptation in captivity in situ in their natural range.
Building an adequate Gorilla enclosure is NOT cheap and many zoos don't have the money for that. Also taking care the right way for Gorilla's isn't easy and isn't cheap ! And it's not in the benefit of the animals to place them simply in the first zoo who wants them. The Studbook keepers only select those zoos which are realy in the position to keep these animals.
Mountain gorillas especially have bad records for zoos. They have not thrived, unlike other apes. Many species of monkey also are barely hanging on. 30 okapis- pointless and unnecessary. There are more Western lowland gorillas in captivity than there are mountain gorillas in the world. To import all 61 Javan rhinos would be foolish. They haven't ever done well in captivity. The Javan rhino population is actually growing as it is- they have a very well managed recovery plan, and it has worked (population increased by 3 or 4 between one year and the next). We have plenty of koalas. I'll discuss others- and what I would import- later, but I have to sleep now.
Continuation :
Javan rhinos : as discused already in several other threads, leave them where they are and if something should be done, create a second sanctuary and move a small number of young adults to that place !
( Eastern ) Black rhino : there is already a ( small ) captive population but its quite a difficult specie to keep and new holders are hard to find.
West African giraffes : a species which could benefit from being brought into captivity BUT because of the over-population of the other Giraffe ( sub ) species and the Zoo-mix giraffes it will become hard to find holding-places for these new animals. It will also become difficult to explain to the public that you put down healthy Giraffes because they are surplus - like was done at Copenhagen ( and many more places which keep this practice quite ) and then import other Giraffes ! Also the transport of wild-caught adult Giraffes will cause a lot of problems and to catch only very young animals will cause problems with animal-activists !
Massai giraffes : the same story as for the West African Giraffe !
Malayan tapir : there is already a healthy captive population so leave those 10 animals where they are.
Koalas : there is already a growing captive population and in European and American Zoos this is quite an expensive species beause of their food-requierments so only a limited number of zoos will be able to keep and breed them. Also the Australian export-laws don't make it easy to import new animals ( althrough Pairi Daiza seem to have succeeded in this ! )
With the 2 Tiger ( sub ) species some animals already kept in captivity in South-east asia could be brought to western zoos but the Zoo-world first has to stop then producing White tigers and tiger-hybrids. When this happens some place can be created to house some Malayan and Indo-chinese tigers.
Great blue touraco : as said already, a very difficult species to bring into captivity but with the few birds already in zoos and some breeding-results and a small population kept and bred in the privat sector I guess it would be wise to gain more experience with this species. The number kept at the moment should be large enough to keep the population healthy for the time coming.
Central-american bushmaster: not kept in zoos in Europe at the moment and I don't know about America but I guess its kept and bred at privat collections. Maybe some can be brought into some zoo collections to build up a captive population.
And last but not least the Golden lancehead : This is realy a species where I would say YES bring a number of founder animals into captivity to build-up a back-up population but also it would be wise to protect its small wild habitat.
Javan rhinos : as discused already in several other threads, leave them where they are and if something should be done, create a second sanctuary and move a small number of young adults to that place !
( Eastern ) Black rhino : there is already a ( small ) captive population but its quite a difficult specie to keep and new holders are hard to find.
West African giraffes : a species which could benefit from being brought into captivity BUT because of the over-population of the other Giraffe ( sub ) species and the Zoo-mix giraffes it will become hard to find holding-places for these new animals. It will also become difficult to explain to the public that you put down healthy Giraffes because they are surplus - like was done at Copenhagen ( and many more places which keep this practice quite ) and then import other Giraffes ! Also the transport of wild-caught adult Giraffes will cause a lot of problems and to catch only very young animals will cause problems with animal-activists !
Massai giraffes : the same story as for the West African Giraffe !
Malayan tapir : there is already a healthy captive population so leave those 10 animals where they are.
Koalas : there is already a growing captive population and in European and American Zoos this is quite an expensive species beause of their food-requierments so only a limited number of zoos will be able to keep and breed them. Also the Australian export-laws don't make it easy to import new animals ( althrough Pairi Daiza seem to have succeeded in this ! )
With the 2 Tiger ( sub ) species some animals already kept in captivity in South-east asia could be brought to western zoos but the Zoo-world first has to stop then producing White tigers and tiger-hybrids. When this happens some place can be created to house some Malayan and Indo-chinese tigers.
Great blue touraco : as said already, a very difficult species to bring into captivity but with the few birds already in zoos and some breeding-results and a small population kept and bred in the privat sector I guess it would be wise to gain more experience with this species. The number kept at the moment should be large enough to keep the population healthy for the time coming.
Central-american bushmaster: not kept in zoos in Europe at the moment and I don't know about America but I guess its kept and bred at privat collections. Maybe some can be brought into some zoo collections to build up a captive population.
And last but not least the Golden lancehead : This is realy a species where I would say YES bring a number of founder animals into captivity to build-up a back-up population but also it would be wise to protect its small wild habitat.
@vogelcommando: d'accord. Given the strict Brazilian conservation regulations, however, I doubt that an ex-situ breeding project for Bothrops insularis will be established anytime soon. Red tape is a general international problem and concerns various interesting species such as the Mountain tapir, the Zebra duiker, the Bostami turtle, the Guatemalan beaded lizard or the two rockfowl species-all endangered species that I think could actually benefit from serious ex-situ breeding projects. Just as well as species such as the Greater false vampire bat that is not endangered, but would imho (based on personal experience) make a great exhibition animal for a zoo.
Just as this particular T.Rex
"Tyrant King" Leech Discovered, Attacks Orifices
Just as this particular T.Rex
"Tyrant King" Leech Discovered, Attacks Orifices
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
Why it is hard to find holders for black rhino, such charismatic species?
And for giraffes, for West African and Massai, I think it will not be problem to house about 50 animals of the two subspecies (25 of each subspecies) in European zoos, even that to mean euthanising some hybrid giraffes (but will not be neccessarly). Actually the Basel zoo was despertate to import some Massai giraffes for it's remaining few giraffes (now they are gone) from Israel, USA or Turkey, but with no success. They are both such charismartic giraffe subspecies, and especaly West African Giraffe.
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
They were kept just in four European zoos, jayjds2. Two German, one Italian and in London. Maybe the population gone because they were not self-sustainable. I don't know. Ok maybe the low altitude may had influence, because they are high-altitude animals. I don't know about their history in USA, do you know?
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
They never did super well in the USA. The last even suspected animal (nobody was quite sure) died in 2002. Now, back to the rest:
West African Giraffes, I would agree with, but only under special conditions. The AZA zoos would have to let their "reticulated" giraffes die out. At this point they are so screwed up that they don't look like any giraffe (sub)species.
That being said, Masai giraffes are doing just fine
.20 Malayan tapirs- there is no room for them in the zoos. Not many zoos want to work in tapir habitats- they are big among South American animals, take up lots of space, and their population is already pretty good.
10 Malayan tigers- if sourced from other zoos, those would benefit the population greatly.
30 indochinese tigers- if you ask the director of the zoo and tier park in Berlin, he will tell you that you've already seen one. However, to manage four tiger (sub)species in captivity would be a bit much (but get rid of the Bengal and white tigers, it'd make the process easier).
20 great blue turacos- I have no idea what this bird's population and genetic diversity is looking like. I know it's been rough in the past, but I think we have got their husbandry down (or close to it) at this point. A small population of say five or so wouldn't be bad.
20 Central American bushmasters- I honestly don't know which species of bushmaster we have right now (or even both).
20 golden lance heads- wouldn't be the worst idea.
Now, after all that, what I would import:
A pair of king of saxony bird of paradise- not anywhere in captivity, and I really like them.
2.3 Papuan mountain pigeons- very small captive population of them.
Small, varied populations of many (mostly) common frogs and toads, mostly ones that zoos aren't working on. Chytrid fungus is going to threaten all of them. Eventually, I would work my way to:
2.2 Goliath frog and the plant they need- work out husbandry (hence the small population) and breeding, then import more in very small numbers to hopefully save the species. Perhaps work with zoos.
Small numbers or various South American birds. I mean things that are not represented in zoos, like blue winged mountain tanager, but would do well. Also probably some manakins because I like those. Maybe 1.1 Wilson's bop as well. Most of my imports would be small numbers of tropical birds, frogs, and toads.
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
Well If I would importing new species who are not represented in captivity, I would loved to be imported more than 12-20 individual animals, for they to have chance to be estabilshed in captivity, to be established self sustainable population. Because with only 2 or under 12 animals, you are dead end host for them, and the purpose is only exhibition, not conservation (ex situ). But somehow must be started, even with two animals.
My thinking is if it's an animal that has issues in captivity (like Goliath frog) then start small. I'd rather two of an endangered species die, preferably of old age, and not breed, than twenty to die instantly because we don't know how to care for them.
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
Yes you're right. Better first experimentaly with fewer animals, and then increasing the n umber trough additional importations. I should mentioned that in the original post that the numbers would be cumulative over some period (eg. 10 years), not alltogether in one or two years, but ''smart'' additions.
While all tigers are sadly endangered, Bengal is the most common. Sumatran, Amur, and Malayan have both just started to get a grip on our zoos. It'll be a while before we see any more (though it'd be nice).
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
The tiger subspecies in most desperate conditions are Indochinese (without well managed captive population mostly in Thai zoos) and then Malayan (not a lot of captive founders in USA and Europe (10-15 animals)). And fragmentation of wild populations and deforestation/urban development. Of corse everyone here would know this, but just to mention.
Amur and Sumatran are doing very well in Europe (both), America (both), Russia (Amur), Australasia (Sumatran) & Japan (I don't know for sure how much tigers are in Japan, and from wich subspecies, I know that there are Sumatrans there too).
Bengals captive are doing very well in Indian zoos, with more than 200 captive animals.
I am most worried about Indochinese tiger and it's uncertant future.
We do need more Malayan founders (it appears there were only 11). Perhaps swapping animals between America and Europe would not be a bad idea. If necessary, we can get a few more from the wild (if we get permits that is, but it is unlikely). Indochinese numbers actually went up a bit recently.
Nikola Chavkosk
Well-Known Member
Why not, last year If I remember well, 3 asiatic lions (I am not just sure for the number) were imported from India for sure, via Prague zoo, for EEP for Asiatic lions.
Yes there must be cooperation between US and Europe for Malayan tigers, since the 11 founders in US are not too much, and the population in Europe can't be self-sustainable, unless imports are added.
Back to the original topic- I would import sea jellies (small numbers of course, not that jellies recognize much difference between captive and wild) of these species:
Flower hat jelly
Immortal jelly
Cross jelly
Purple stripes jelly
And so on. Most are actually available from breeders. But they'd still be imports as the breeder is in Hong Kong.
Flower hat jelly
Immortal jelly
Cross jelly
Purple stripes jelly
And so on. Most are actually available from breeders. But they'd still be imports as the breeder is in Hong Kong.
Like I said before I would only like to import animals if it is their only possibility to
survive as a species. I just don't agree with imports done because someone finds the species 'beautiful'. Of course, this is about wild animals, captive born/rescued animals
are a complete different story.
This being said, I would like to see some of the asian turtle and tortoise species to be
imported, as they barely have a chance to survive without a captive back-up population.
Besides, when cared for properly, many turtle and tortoise species do pretty well in captivity.
survive as a species. I just don't agree with imports done because someone finds the species 'beautiful'. Of course, this is about wild animals, captive born/rescued animals
are a complete different story.
This being said, I would like to see some of the asian turtle and tortoise species to be
imported, as they barely have a chance to survive without a captive back-up population.
Besides, when cared for properly, many turtle and tortoise species do pretty well in captivity.