What do you all think about circuses?
- Thread starter elephant400
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camel leopard
Well-Known Member
I must agree with you ashley-h as much as people try say there not zoos are simular to circuses in some ways. As long as the animals are given the best possible care, training and housing i do not see the big issue. Though i do appreciate that many people do not wish to see animals performing which is perfectly fine.
I do agree that certain species such as bears ,hippos and apes etc should not be used.
I do agree that certain species such as bears ,hippos and apes etc should not be used.
camel leopard
Well-Known Member
Havent seen it unfortunately even though the circus came to my town went past and saw them though, was a bit weird seeing elephants and camels grazing in a field next to morrisons lol .
elephant400
Well-Known Member
I don't think all circuses are cruel, i agree with ash that in a zoo they have the same enclosure every day and in a circus they have a new home every week just like in the wild.
Cat-man, I think I see what zoogiraffe meant, when you make a post it might be easier for everyone reading it if you made it really clear about what you were on about. I know you were on about the Great British circus, but if just put the details like that in all your posts then it would make for easier reading and no one would yell at you 
GillP
Well-Known Member
I find animals in circuses undignified (at best), superfluous (i.e. one's enjoyment of a circus surely doesn't depend on seeing performing animals ?) and - yes - cruel.
It's inevitable these animals must live in trailer cages and whilst some may be turned out to graze when possible, clearly this is impossible for big cats. Trying to recreate a naturalistic environment and a naturalistic social group for these unfortunate creatures is therefore never going to happen.
The argument that they are 'enriched' through training is questionable ........ when they are being trained to perform unnatural acts. Most people would agree that the best type of enrichment mimics, so far as possible, the natural behaviours found in the wild.
And then you consider the logistics of a circus, with long periods spent on the road on a recurring basis (most animals are sedated when they're moved between zoos - are circus animals ?) with all the associated noise and motion that most animals find distressing, and then the bright lights and noisy crowds of the show itself. Does anyone really believe this is an appropriate environment for animals ? ........ and the 'it's all they've ever known' argument doesn't wash, that simply means they've been subjected to this cruelty all their lives.
What really gets me is how it is so unnecessary. The circuses I have been to without animals (I wouldn't go to one with) have been packed to the rafters with people who have marvelled at the various entertaining skills of its human performers - who are all there through their own free will, and who have chosen to develop their talent. An animal doesn't have so-called talent ...... it does the things it does because it has been trained to do them, and you have to ask how that's been achieved. Even if the most humane methods have been used, the end result is still an undignified and upsetting spectacle.
It's inevitable these animals must live in trailer cages and whilst some may be turned out to graze when possible, clearly this is impossible for big cats. Trying to recreate a naturalistic environment and a naturalistic social group for these unfortunate creatures is therefore never going to happen.
The argument that they are 'enriched' through training is questionable ........ when they are being trained to perform unnatural acts. Most people would agree that the best type of enrichment mimics, so far as possible, the natural behaviours found in the wild.
And then you consider the logistics of a circus, with long periods spent on the road on a recurring basis (most animals are sedated when they're moved between zoos - are circus animals ?) with all the associated noise and motion that most animals find distressing, and then the bright lights and noisy crowds of the show itself. Does anyone really believe this is an appropriate environment for animals ? ........ and the 'it's all they've ever known' argument doesn't wash, that simply means they've been subjected to this cruelty all their lives.
What really gets me is how it is so unnecessary. The circuses I have been to without animals (I wouldn't go to one with) have been packed to the rafters with people who have marvelled at the various entertaining skills of its human performers - who are all there through their own free will, and who have chosen to develop their talent. An animal doesn't have so-called talent ...... it does the things it does because it has been trained to do them, and you have to ask how that's been achieved. Even if the most humane methods have been used, the end result is still an undignified and upsetting spectacle.
Again, I see what you mean but if you take that paragraph, replace the word "circus" with "zoo". See how well it fits? I'm (obviously) not against zoos, but that paragraph could have been written as a post against them and it makes perfect sense. It's basically all the cons of Zoos with a different word 
And no, from what I've seen they're never sadated to travel or perform, zoo animals are because they're not used to it. Which is the more stressful?
And no, from what I've seen they're never sadated to travel or perform, zoo animals are because they're not used to it. Which is the more stressful?
Martin B
Well-Known Member
I went to a circus a month or so back. I hadn't been to an animal circus since I was a little baby and went to the Blackpool one with elephants.
Peter Jolly's circuse was awful, the animals were not happy. You could tell.
They bough a Zebra, Camel, Llama and ankole bull into the ring and the camel was leaning on the llama and hitting it with its head, the zebra was frantically running around the ring, and the ringmaster was trying to bring it under control.
You could see the animals in their enclosure afterwards. It was a small tent and the ankole bull was heavily tied up, and the llama was once again being crushed by the camel who was using the fence panel as a weapon. They also had about twenty ponies and horses and about 6 reindeer as well as some goats, pigeons, runner ducks and 6 small dogs.
The performance was awful, they looked very mentally disturbed and their housing was completly inadequate!
Peter Jolly's circuse was awful, the animals were not happy. You could tell.
They bough a Zebra, Camel, Llama and ankole bull into the ring and the camel was leaning on the llama and hitting it with its head, the zebra was frantically running around the ring, and the ringmaster was trying to bring it under control.
You could see the animals in their enclosure afterwards. It was a small tent and the ankole bull was heavily tied up, and the llama was once again being crushed by the camel who was using the fence panel as a weapon. They also had about twenty ponies and horses and about 6 reindeer as well as some goats, pigeons, runner ducks and 6 small dogs.
The performance was awful, they looked very mentally disturbed and their housing was completly inadequate!
Martin B
Well-Known Member
Peter Jolly's Circus.
Apparently they used to have a bear but it died. Not sure when this happened.
Peter Jolly's Circus
Just remembered...
They put a fox on the back of a horse and walked it round the ring. The fox was wearing a metal collar with a metal chain attached to it.
They also had men parading around bare chest with snakes wrapped around them!
Apparently they used to have a bear but it died. Not sure when this happened.
Peter Jolly's Circus
Just remembered...
They put a fox on the back of a horse and walked it round the ring. The fox was wearing a metal collar with a metal chain attached to it.
They also had men parading around bare chest with snakes wrapped around them!
blackpanther
Well-Known Member
I was at coombe abbey park yesterday and they were advertising donkey rides, my animal mad eight year old was saying mummy can i please go on, we went over to them, these guys barely moved, and didn't hold their heads up at all. to top it all off two were tethered to the trailer in the shade, and two were stood out in the sun,
i wasn't happy at all and refused to allow my son to ride, after removing him from the are a quickly explained that i didn't think it was fair on the donkeys as they seemed so tired, he accepted this bless him.
i guess my main point is how could he have gotten those animals so quiet and still, as i recall it at blackpool a year or so ago the donkeys werent quite so docile, i wish i had taken my camera so i could have got some pics grrrrrrrrrr
i wasn't happy at all and refused to allow my son to ride, after removing him from the are a quickly explained that i didn't think it was fair on the donkeys as they seemed so tired, he accepted this bless him.
i guess my main point is how could he have gotten those animals so quiet and still, as i recall it at blackpool a year or so ago the donkeys werent quite so docile, i wish i had taken my camera so i could have got some pics grrrrrrrrrr
The animals on Jolly's Circus are the most contented and laid back of all animals I've seen in circuses.
The animals are tethered in the stable tent after the performance for the visitors to see. Once the public have left, the animals are taken outside and allowed to graze in large, hot-wired enclosures.
I've worked with quite a few foxes in my time and never have come accross such a laid back one as Peter Jolly's. He hand-raised it from just a couple of weeks old. Did you notice it trying to jump off the Donkey's back? Did it look scared to you?
Likewise the zebra is completely relaxed. It is allowed to do pretty much as it pleases in the ring without being made to do anything in particular - it is allowed to roll on the ground during the show if it feels like it. Tail twitching is a good indication of the animal's level of anxiety - this one doesn't twitch at all.
Ming the Bear died recently. She was approaching 30 years old. Again, this animal was not forced to do anything. It used to walk into the ring on a collar and lead, do a couple of laps and then sit down and drink a bottle of milk.
What you've written Martin B is utter nonsense. Jolly's animals do not show any signs of being "mentally disturbed". Rather the opposite in fact. They are in fine fettle physically and, from what I've seen, mentally too.
The animals are tethered in the stable tent after the performance for the visitors to see. Once the public have left, the animals are taken outside and allowed to graze in large, hot-wired enclosures.
I've worked with quite a few foxes in my time and never have come accross such a laid back one as Peter Jolly's. He hand-raised it from just a couple of weeks old. Did you notice it trying to jump off the Donkey's back? Did it look scared to you?
Likewise the zebra is completely relaxed. It is allowed to do pretty much as it pleases in the ring without being made to do anything in particular - it is allowed to roll on the ground during the show if it feels like it. Tail twitching is a good indication of the animal's level of anxiety - this one doesn't twitch at all.
Ming the Bear died recently. She was approaching 30 years old. Again, this animal was not forced to do anything. It used to walk into the ring on a collar and lead, do a couple of laps and then sit down and drink a bottle of milk.
What you've written Martin B is utter nonsense. Jolly's animals do not show any signs of being "mentally disturbed". Rather the opposite in fact. They are in fine fettle physically and, from what I've seen, mentally too.
Cat-man, I think I see what zoogiraffe meant, when you make a post it might be easier for everyone reading it if you made it really clear about what you were on about. I know you were on about the Great British circus, but if just put the details like that in all your posts then it would make for easier reading and no one would yell at you
sorry, will try,
but arn't you shocked that
they came from howletts!,
I'm Furious
