Twycross Zoo What would you do?

Javan Rhino

Javan Rhino

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
Twycross gets a lot of negative criticism on here for various reasons, so I thought it posed the interesting question, how would you 'bring it up to standard?'

What would you keep, what would you demolish, what would you alter etc? Let's make this realistic - it's easy to say 'build large islands for all of the apes' etc, but at the end of the day is that feasible?

Personally, I would start with one of two options - either keep the 'World Primate Centre' title and gradually move away from keeping anything non-primate, step-by-step phasing other species out and altering their enclosures. The other option would be the reverse, downsize the primate collection and use the space to have 5 or 6 good primate exhibits, rather than a stamp collection to justify the title.

What are your views, what would you do?

And my last question, can Twycross ever become a contender in the 'top 5-10 UK zoos' category?
 
hmmm, interesting!

1) new asian lion/dhole area adjacent to elephants
2) far west car park by gorillas could be built on - maybe larger gibbon enclosures?
3) if the whole of the field south of the site was owned, this could be developed by building a new african primate/ape exhibit which would free up most of the exhisitng ape pens for gibbons/langurs etc.
4) demolish the gibbon/colobus house and build a lareg walk thru avairy for squrrel monkeys/titi monkeys/tamarins/macaws/agouti. Divide the south paddock in half - one side for tapirs/capybara/pudu/vicuna and the other for pampas animals - gunaco, mara, rhea, anteater. The remaining money houses in this area could then be used for spider moneys, woolly monkeys and cappuchins - and voila, we have a competitive south american themed area without much alteration!
5) ditch the stupid train/domestic animal it and build a seal/penguin coast exhibit a la bristol zoo - this would be a massive crowd puller. Old enclosures could then be used for waterfowl/otters etc etc
6) buy 10 acres more land!! use it build and indonesian themed area for gibbons/langurs/orang utans/tapirs/sumatran tigers/reptiles/binturong/sun bears/birds - use their old enclosures for exhisting primates!
7) alternatively, addition land bought could be used for an african savannah theme - giraffes/dama gazzelles/grevys zebra/ostrich roaming a large central field with smaller paddocks round the edge containing the hyena/bat eared foxes/aardwolves/servals/meerkeats and other small african mammals/baboons?patas monkeys?addax?african lions?hunting dogs?caracals? Also retail and visitor services could be placed around the edge too.
8) the self-professed world primate centre should really have a large multispecie lemur walk through buy now.

I think for twycross to compete, it needs to ditch the rows of cages. It needs bigger exhibits for its larger apes which will require more land no matter how you reorganise the site. It should stick to what its good at which is primates, elephants and a few others and focus on those. Its sad that all that money went into building that silly himalaya exhibit while leaving its apes in small cages. I think the zoo serious lacks from good planning and lags years behind others from a animal welfare point of view.
 
Johnny Morris. said:
Do they still do that nonsence where you have to go and get a ticket to go in the Tropical house? That needs sorting.
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We did last time we were there. I don't like having to get a ticket for a set time because I like to just set my own pace and sort of 'go around randomly.' I was trying to photograph something once as it was being interesting (can't recall what now) and then I realised I had to tear myself away to go to the Tropical House, for I wanted to see the sloth.
 
Javan Rhino said:
We did last time we were there. I don't like having to get a ticket for a set time because I like to just set my own pace and sort of 'go around randomly.' I was trying to photograph something once as it was being interesting (can't recall what now) and then I realised I had to tear myself away to go to the Tropical House, for I wanted to see the sloth.
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I did like the tropical bit, and i'm glad it was a quiet day. But that system really needs reviewing.
 
Invest in a good zoo architect, a JCB and a new head gardener.
Build large new houses for bonobos and orangs with large climbing frames indoors and out and elevated viewing positions (using the JCB to arrange multiple levels in the exterior).
Renovate current bonobo and orang houses for large groups of monkeys, covering the outdoor enclosures and planting them thickly.
Extend the chimp house next to the Gorilla cafe, with a large new dayroom and much enlarged paddock, planted and furnished as above - then move the chimps from the Green Mile into the enlarged house and integrate all the chimps into one group (get advice from Edinburgh if required).
Demolish Green Mile and use the site for 2 better gibbon enclosures.
Plant a thousand trees and shrubs, both in the enclosures and between them, to make the site look more like a garden and less like a field.

Not cheap, but what an improvement!

Alan
 
I would like to see 3 main areas based around Gorillas/bonobos, chimpanzees and orang utans, with satellite enclosures for primates from the said apes home territory.
That should take care of the gibbons, guenons and langurs.
A separate "Amazon" type set up for the South American species.
And as Leiclad20 says, surely a lemur walk through, should not be too difficult to create.
I applaud GL's sentiment regarding the field like feel to the site, surely more trees and general greenery would immerse the experience a little more.
 
I agree with Alan; one of the first steps should be a massive tree planting programme. (This is something that Twycross shares with Whipsnade - both are decades behind in this regard).

I would get rid of the giraffes (setup is horrible and dated) and sealions (setup plain horrible). Having never seen inside the Tropical House I can't comment on it, but remembering the glorified pet shop that was the reptile house/aquarium it can't be much improvement. A nocturnal house centred on prosimians would fit Twycross' remit far better.

Halfway between WMSP and Woburn, I would question the point of many of Twycross' paddock species. Their removal would allow the construction of decent sized big cat enclosures.

And while I agree that the lemur accommodation is uninspiring, does everywhere have to keep them on a walk-through basis? A zoo that plainly has got to watch its pennies can surely find better ways of paying for keeper time than having someone on permanent guard duties...
 
IanRRobinson said:
I would get rid of the giraffes (setup is horrible and dated) and sealions (setup plain horrible). Having never seen inside the Tropical House I can't comment on it, but remembering the glorified pet shop that was the reptile house/aquarium it can't be much improvement. A nocturnal house centred on prosimians would fit Twycross' remit far better.
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I don't recall the Tropical house as a reptile house, only as it is now. To give you an idea, there is a small entrance with some dart frogs, then you go around into the main walkthrough, which has two-toed sloth, some callitrichid species, sunbitterns, striated herons, sebas[?] bats and a large vivarium at the end, in which I've seen green iguana on one visit and common boa on another (I think?). There are other bird species I think, but that about sums up how much I remember.
 
I'm suprised nobody's said, "fire the director" or "change the trustees" yet. I know of at least one poster who'll have deep teeth marks, to blood, in their tongue.

I usually hate fantasy threads, but there's a first time for everything.

I agree that if it's claiming to be "World Primate Centre" efforts really have to be made to live up to the moniker. I think that means it should aim to be the best place to see (a large variety) of primates in the world. When I say the "best place to see" I mean to see the animals displaying their natural behaviours in natural groups (bachelors excepted) not necessarilly spectacular looking enclosures (Howletts fit this bill perfectly). I don't think being the World Primate Centre means getting rid of non-primates just a very heavy focus on primates.

Specific ideas:

1. Get rid of the Sea Lions, extend and net the area, adding climbing and viewing windows. Hey presto, Japanese Macaque (no Macaques currently at Twycross) enclosure, they might even fancy a swim. Alternatively just get rid of the Sea Lions;
2. Get rid of Giraffes and "cage over the area and add loads of furniture, refurbish indoors -new Bonobo enclosure;
3. Get rid of Elephants (stop crying at the back) refit the indoor and outdoor areas to make a massive Chimp enclosure, I'm thinking like Chester's. I know it's a bit silly redoing an area not long after changing it, but Twycross are used to it with the car parks so it's not against their nature;
4. Old Bonobo enclosure used for group of smaller Baboons;
5. Old Chimp enclosure used for bachelor group of Geladas;
6. New Gorilla enclosure netted over with leafy camouflage in an attempt to provide them with more security and make them use the outside more;
7. Tropical House refitted as nocturnal house, I'm thinking Doricouli, Lorises, Aye Aye (in my dreams) and Galagos.

I really don't know how the Orang enclosure could be improved, without a total rebuild so they'd have to go and a large group of social monkeys put in there (or walk through Lemur enclosure (entry through revamped indoor area and outside ditches filled in).

Again, I can't see how to improve Gibbon enclosures short of bulldozing them.

Finally, as it's my fantasy, the old Seal pool becomes the pool portion of a Pygmy Hippo enclosure.

Now I'm getting carried away, I may as well propose replacement, Edinburgh-like, Gibbon enclosures and something akin to Living Links.

I feel strangely seedy now, I'm not sure these fantasy threads are me.
 
Shorts said:
I usually hate fantasy threads, but there's a first time for everything.
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Not my intention, I know the problem with fantasy threads - to fit my intention with this thread more it should have been titled 'what should be done?'

People criticise the place so much, I wanted to pose the question of what the people doing the criticism would do to make it better - I suppose it is a fantasy thread, but it wasn't meant to be a 'design a zoo' type thing, more a general interest of where people think Twycross fails, and how it can stop failing in these areas - does that make sense :confused:
 
Javan Rhino said:
People criticise the place so much, I wanted to pose the question of what the people doing the criticism would do to make it better - I suppose it is a fantasy thread, but it wasn't meant to be a 'design a zoo' type thing, more a general interest of where people think Twycross fails, and how it can stop failing in these areas - does that make sense :confused:
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I can see what you're saying, but there's definitely some cross-over. Maybe the fact it wasn't pure fantasy is what dragged me in.:)
 
Shorts said:
I'm suprised nobody's said, "fire the director" or "change the trustees" yet. I know of at least one poster who'll have deep teeth marks, to blood, in their tongue.
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Well seeing as you have already said it now shorts,I agree that major changes need making at the top and not just with the 2 places you have named.

Also thanks for the concern about my tongue,it did hurt when a bit into when I saw this thread:p;)
 
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Agree with bringing in new management. For me the top priority has to be the chimps. I believe they should try and make 2 family groups. They need large well equiped, natural looking enclosures with plenty of climbing frames, shade, shelter and much more enrichment as this would do away with so much litter. You don't see it at Monkey World. If they lived in large family groups then surely behaviour would be more natural. The same goes for the orangs, gorillas and bonobos.

New leopard and giraffe enclosures, with some good design and minimal cost they could utilise the leopard enclosure, orang enclosure and the "green mile" for some of the other monkey's or lemurs. The gibbons definitely need a new enclosure.

I'm starting to wonder if it would make more sense to cut down on the number of animals they have of each species and try to keep them in natural family groups.

I could go on and on but will stop with what I feel are the top priorities.
 
daystar12uk said:
I'm starting to wonder if it would make more sense to cut down on the number of animals they have of each species and try to keep them in natural family groups.
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I agree with this. Taronga's chimp exhibit is one of the most entertaining exhibits that I've seen anywhere because they have a big cohesive group similar to what I've seen of Monkey World on the TV show. One big group in a nice exhibit is way better than twenty chimpanzees spread around just as many cages.
 
It sounds to me as if the required fixes would need one thing: a very large input of money. Then a masterplan. I like Twycross but I would agree it's enclosures need to be brought in to the 21st century. I don't know what's going on at Twycross and I am not ferreting for information. It does seem a great shame that it's not what it should be. I've often wondered about their claim to be the World Primate Centre. Unfortunately, we no longer have access to ISIS so it's not possible to check if they have the largest number of primate species. They certainly could have a greater variety of primates. Surely, the so-called World Primate Centre should have some non-lemurid prosimians.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
They don't; not by a long shot.
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They may not do so any longer but they did, at one time, claim they had more primate species than any other zoo in the world. I did, about the same time, a quick check on ISIS and, as I'd anticipated, Singapore had more species. They really don't have a good claim to the title of World Primate Centre. To come anywhere near deserving this I believe they need a greater variety of primate species.
 
chimpman said:
They may not do so any longer but they did, at one time, claim they had more primate species than any other zoo in the world.
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Yeah, even at the time they had less than a good few other collections. And there needs to be a revival of non-lemurid prosimians in general, I agree.
 
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