Twycross Zoo What would you do?

Twycross has no species to represent the following primates:

- Dwarf, mouse and fork-crowned lemurs
- Woolly lemurs, sportive lemurs, sifakas and indri
- Aye aye
- Lorises, pottos and angwantibos
- Galagos and bushbabies
- Tarsiers
- Night monkeys, Capuchins and squirrel monkeys
- Mangabeys
- Macaques
- Drills, mandrills, baboons and gelada

In my opinion that point, mixed with awful enclosures on the most part, as well as keeping single animals or pairs of some species and having a limited breeding record with half of what they do have, doesn't make it a world primate center (not even the best zoo for primates in the UK!)
 
I always thought Twycross was better than this. It just goes to show what I know! It sounds to me as if Twycross Zoo has never progressed beyond being Molly Badham's personal hobby.
 
chimpman said:
I always thought Twycross was better than this. It just goes to show what I know! It sounds to me as if Twycross Zoo has never progressed beyond being Molly Badham's personal hobby.
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I would advise you to visit and make your own mind up. Twycross needs a lot of work at the moment and they are now moving forward. I think they need to rethink the world primatd title. But I do feel that they can't win on here. When nothing was happening people were complaining, now things are happening its too much.

I dont normally get involved in these discussions as they really annoy me but sometimes I can't help myself.
 
mazfc said:
I would advise you to visit and make your own mind up. Twycross needs a lot of work at the moment and they are now moving forward. I think they need to rethink the world primatd title. But I do feel that they can't win on here. When nothing was happening people were complaining, now things are happening its too much.

I dont normally get involved in these discussions as they really annoy me but sometimes I can't help myself.
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And they are now moving forward!, can't say I've noticed. What exactly is happening at this zoo to take it in this direction?
 
mazfc said:
I would advise you to visit and make your own mind up. Twycross needs a lot of work at the moment and they are now moving forward. I think they need to rethink the world primatd title. But I do feel that they can't win on here. When nothing was happening people were complaining, now things are happening its too much.

I dont normally get involved in these discussions as they really annoy me but sometimes I can't help myself.
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And no, I can't help myself either, forgive me but are you not the person who described the plight of the sea lions as"heart breaking" before the zoo saw fit to put them down?
 
TARZAN said:
And no, I can't help myself either, forgive me but are you not the person who described the plight of the sea lions as"heart breaking" before the zoo saw fit to put them down?
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Yes I did and I stand by that, it was. Its no longer happening. There are many things that need to improve and I also believe its moving in the right direction (I hope funding supports this).

I don't have a problem with discussing twycross at all, but I think if all the elephant speculation was taking place on the Chester thread it would have been stopped in no uncertain terms by telling us that the zoo will tell us when they are ready to and we shouldn't be making unfounded speculations

That's what is really annoying me I think, we can discuss twycross and knock it but we can't even report what we see at Chester let alone speculate.

I like fairness and even treatment.

Discuss away, but extend discussion to other zoos too. (I'm not saying I have major faults with Chester I'm saying that we can either discuss the same aspects of all zoos or none).

I'll stand back and wait to be shouted at by everyone (another reason I don't normally join in these types of discussions).
 
mazfc said:
Yes I did and I stand by that, it was. Its no longer happening. There are many things that need to improve and I also believe its moving in the right direction (I hope funding supports this).

I don't have a problem with discussing twycross at all, but I think if all the elephant speculation was taking place on the Chester thread it would have been stopped in no uncertain terms by telling us that the zoo will tell us when they are ready to and we shouldn't be making unfounded speculations

That's what is really annoying me I think, we can discuss twycross and knock it but we can't even report what we see at Chester let alone speculate.

I like fairness and even treatment.

Discuss away, but extend discussion to other zoos too. (I'm not saying I have major faults with Chester I'm saying that we can either discuss the same aspects of all zoos or none).

I'll stand back and wait to be shouted at by everyone (another reason I don't normally join in these types of discussions).
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As a new member of ZooChat I don't always understand what's being talked about. Who stops discussions on the forum about Chester Zoo?
 
chimpman said:
As a new member of ZooChat I don't always understand what's being talked about. Who stops discussions on the forum about Chester Zoo?
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Nothing actually stops discussion about Chester, i think the problem is that occasionally either people overhear something or are told something in confidence then publish it on here and other members more 'in the know' suggest they dont speculate!
I followed this site for 2 years before joining and had much the same view as mazfc , that Chester was ' above' criticism , but i was pleasantly surprised that when i criticised their 'flagship' exhibit , realm of the red ape, more Chester regulars agreed with my comments than disagreed(in fact i think noone defended it!).
I do think Twycross takes more than its fair share of criticism, more than most others put together! I fear for its future if it loses the elephants though and doesn't deliver the carnivore area its advertised.
I want it to survive and develop, as i'm sure most others do!
 
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mazfc said:
Yes I did and I stand by that, it was. Its no longer happening. There are many things that need to improve and I also believe its moving in the right direction (I hope funding supports this).

I don't have a problem with discussing twycross at all, but I think if all the elephant speculation was taking place on the Chester thread it would have been stopped in no uncertain terms by telling us that the zoo will tell us when they are ready to and we shouldn't be making unfounded speculations

That's what is really annoying me I think, we can discuss twycross and knock it but we can't even report what we see at Chester let alone speculate.

I like fairness and even treatment.

Discuss away, but extend discussion to other zoos too. (I'm not saying I have major faults with Chester I'm saying that we can either discuss the same aspects of all zoos or none).

I'll stand back and wait to be shouted at by everyone (another reason I don't normally join in these types of discussions).
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Nobody is shouting, and yes I am very much for fair treatment, if you look at the Twycross Zoo news thread 2012 you will see that I posted that this rumour that the zoo are next going out of Asian elephants is just a rumour, there has been no official statement from the zoo's management to confirm this, therefore we should assume that the elephants shall be remaining until we may be told otherwise. Regarding the "knocking "of Twycross that goes on this forum, let's try and see the bigger picture here, i.e., why are people "knocking" it, myself included?, Could it be that the major culprits had a great deal of respect and enthusiasm for this zoo in times past, and are currently very frustrated, angry, annoyed at the current state of play at this zoo, it would appear to me that they are not anti Twycross, but very much pro Twycross, just like yourself, who can name all the chimps there and where they are currently residing, excellent, an active interest in the zoo and, more importantly, the animals in it, heartbreaking?, ..... just look at the bank balance ten years ago compared to what it is today!
 
TARZAN said:
Nobody is shouting, and yes I am very much for fair treatment, if you look at the Twycross Zoo news thread 2012 you will see that I posted that this rumour that the zoo are next going out of Asian elephants is just a rumour, there has been no official statement from the zoo's management to confirm this, therefore we should assume that the elephants shall be remaining until we may be told otherwise. Regarding the "knocking "of Twycross that goes on this forum, let's try and see the bigger picture here, i.e., why are people "knocking" it, myself included?, Could it be that the major culprits had a great deal of respect and enthusiasm for this zoo in times past, and are currently very frustrated, angry, annoyed at the current state of play at this zoo, it would appear to me that they are not anti Twycross, but very much pro Twycross, just like yourself, who can name all the chimps there and where they are currently residing, excellent, an active interest in the zoo and, more importantly, the animals in it, heartbreaking?, ..... just look at the bank balance ten years ago compared to what it is today!
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Excelentlly said as I agree 200% with every word you have said in this post,But I will also reiterate for people to look at the bank balance 10 years ago,and look at it now and then ask yourself where the money for any major,new build is going to come from,certainly not out of the Zoos bank account!!
 
pipaluk said:
I do think Twycross takes more than its fair share of criticism, more than most others put together!
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Like ZooGiraffe I think Tarzan hit the nail on the head. I don't think Twycross takes more than its fair share of criticism -I think it's entirely in proportion to the siginificant amount of poor exhibits for what is a major UK zoo. No other place approaching 500,000 visitors a year has so many "blind spots" with a number of exhibits at the barely or less than adequate level (including the fairly recently abandoned Lion and Sea Lion exhibits which were probably the poorest (definitely smallest) exhibits for those species in the country). The Chimps in the recently abandoned Gorilla House surely have the least outdoor furniture for the species in the UK (the overhead mesh probably gave them more options in the Green Mile)!

pipaluk said:
I fear for its future .....
I want it to survive and develop, as i'm sure most others do!
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As I think we all do, I think our frustration is part worry about how it's going to get out of this mess. I fear a Dudley scenario* where "jam tomorrow" is promised for a number of years and improvement is always just over the horizon -which for a zoo with about two and half times more visitors than Dudley is just ridiculous.

*no longer the case as Dudley has improved incredibly, and on a shoestring, over the last five or so years (with the added millstone of protected architecture) -maybe, seriously, Twycross should look there for tips (if they're not already).
 
Shorts said:
Like ZooGiraffe I think Tarzan hit the nail on the head. I don't think Twycross takes more than its fair share of criticism -I think it's entirely in proportion to the siginificant amount of poor exhibits for what is a major UK zoo. No other place approaching 500,000 visitors a year has so many "blind spots" with a number of exhibits at the barely or less than adequate level (including the fairly recently abandoned Lion and Sea Lion exhibits which were probably the poorest (definitely smallest) exhibits for those species in the country). The Chimps in the recently abandoned Gorilla House surely have the least outdoor furniture for the species in the UK (the overhead mesh probably gave them more options in the Green Mile)!



As I think we all do, I think our frustration is part worry about how it's going to get out of this mess. I fear a Dudley scenario* where "jam tomorrow" is promised for a number of years and improvement is always just over the horizon -which for a zoo with about two and half times more visitors than Dudley is just ridiculous.

*no longer the case as Dudley has improved incredibly, and on a shoestring, over the last five or so years (with the added millstone of protected architecture) -maybe, seriously, Twycross should look there for tips (if they're not already).
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Thanks Shorts, i may have implied that i thought the actual criticism of Twycross is unfair, which isn't the case, most is well founded, and i've been as guilty as a lot of others in having my say. Just that there are a few other zoos that escape a bit more of the share perhaps.
I didn't visit Twycross until 4/5 years ago, so i dont know what it was like in the past, but i get an impression of a zoo which has sat in a timewarp for 30+ years, while all its once acceptable enclosures have become dated at once, leaving it far too much to do in a time of recession. Whilst Twycross has stood still, others have steadily improved their facilities for sealions, apes, big cats etc. Colchester being a good example, having overhauled half the zoo in the last 15 years!
I have returned 3 times since my 1st visit, so there must be something i like at Twycross, i know everyone else must like something about it too and we all want it to be there in another 30 years time.
 
pipaluk said:
.
I didn't visit Twycross until 4/5 years ago, so i dont know what it was like in the past, but i get an impression of a zoo which has sat in a timewarp for 30+ years,
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If you went 30 years ago you would have seen a very similar Zoo. The newer primate buildings are basically just copies of the earlier ones and totally lacking in any aethsetic appeal, as is the layout and 'bare' appearance of the grounds generally. The Elephant area is the one significant modern area really, at least as far as animal housing is concerned.

Twycross periodically attracts large amounts of discussion on here, with far more adverse comments than most other UK collections, possibly because it houses a major collection but much of it still in substandard housing.

Its worth noting the three current 'developments'- Owl aviaries; Coatis; Penguin Parade- are all comparatively low budget revamps or alterations to existing enclosures. The recent Chimpanzee moves are a very good thing but again are only involving existing buildings. There still seems no sign on the horizon of any major building work such as the planned Lions/Dholes or Chimpanzee Complex, but we can live in hope. If we actually see either of these moving forward then that is a fair indication that the Zoo is moving forward too. Until they do things remain in limbo in my mind.
 
The first thing I would do is abolish the £1 admission charge for children under the age of three, I suggest this was introduced with the intention of massaging the visitor figures, as well as taking more money at the pay box. The Twycross volunteers that were relieved of their duties a few years back would be written to personally asking if they could return to the zoo, their services would be very much appreciated. I would invest in a couple of Shetland ponies, pony rides would be on offer in the pets corner, manned by the volunteers, £1 per ride, also in the pets corner, domestic pigs would be introduced, and considering the area we are in, perhaps the Tamworth, these would be given names and presented to the visitors as a sentient intelligent animal. and not just something to laugh at when they are sent to be made into sausages, on the subject of pigs, why not get a couple of red river hogs in the old Babirusa enclosure?I certainly think that the camels should be transferred to the old giraffe house, although perhaps with the addition of a third animal, guanaco housed in the former camel house and a couple of llamas in pets corner, then, Twycross could boast to have all members of the camel family,. In the gift shop, why not sell more of those cheap lines that the pound shops sell, but mark them up to £1.50, 200% mark up, plastic zoo animals, cuddly toys etc, pile it high and sell it cheap, this philosophy didn't do Jack Cohen any harm when he started in the grocery business. When the visitors leave at home time, volunteers could stand at Himalaya selling balloons, as is done at London, good mark up. At the car park on entering, charge £1 per car, in return, in visitors are given a sticker to put in the rear window of their car stating"we had a great day out at Twycross Zoo, including a picture if Benji the chimp smiling. If anyone thinks that my suggestions to introduce mainly common species and turn the place into a fairground, very well, however, I have calculated that these simple measures at the end of one year would realise enough money to build a new lion and tiger exhibit, not a multi million pound one like what London are having built, but a one built of good quality materials which will be an asset to the zoo for both the felines and the visitors.
 
In reply to TARZAN Like your thinking! the zoo always used to be based on simplicity and kiddie friendly gift shops with cheap prices (the late director or CEO - what is the difference-- didn't like to see children in the gift shop at Himalaya in fact school parties were I gather banned!) and the volunteers of the former TZA are still in existence as an organisation and meet regularly and would I'm sure be only too happy to help out if asked.
 
Thank you for your words of support, another few things, if vacancies occur for keeping staff, the fact that someone had left this zoo in the last few years in perhaps not pleasant circumstances, would certainly not be held against them for applying for a keeper position in the future, get signs back around the zoo with the names of all the popular animals on them, i.e. gorillas, chimps, bonobos, orangs, elephants, camels, etc. no need to employ a graphic designer to do this on a high salary, I bet enthusiastic volunteers or indeed certain members of this zoo chat would love to do this, as for banning the kids out of Himalaya, well this person I am sure is not only familiar with being banned out of this Himalaya, but indeed the entire site itself from what I have read in the local Midland's press, let's get back to giving families a good day out at this zoo, and see compliments and positive feedback on this zoo's facebook page, if the kids go home happy, then the parents will be happy, again simple but true.
 
TARZAN said:
Thank you for your words of support, another few things, if vacancies occur for keeping staff, the fact that someone had left this zoo in the last few years in perhaps not pleasant circumstances, would certainly not be held against them for applying for a keeper position in the future, get signs back around the zoo with the names of all the popular animals on them, i.e. gorillas, chimps, bonobos, orangs, elephants, camels, etc. no need to employ a graphic designer to do this on a high salary, I bet enthusiastic volunteers or indeed certain members of this zoo chat would love to do this, as for banning the kids out of Himalaya, well this person I am sure is not only familiar with being banned out of this Himalaya, but indeed the entire site itself from what I have read in the local Midland's press, let's get back to giving families a good day out at this zoo, and see compliments and positive feedback on this zoo's facebook page, if the kids go home happy, then the parents will be happy, again simple but true.
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I know next to nothing about this zoo or its apparently unpleasant recent past. However, the "solutions" proposed here sound like a regression to an amateurish/hobbyist approach to zoo keeping, one that certainly is in evidence in numerous British animal displays, but seems like a very reactionary and shortsighted way to envision a way forward for zoos. Cheap reads as cheap.....
 
reduakari said:
I know next to nothing about this zoo or its apparently unpleasant recent past. However, the "solutions" proposed here sound like a regression to an amateurish/hobbyist approach to zoo keeping, one that certainly is in evidence in numerous British animal displays, but seems like a very reactionary and shortsighted way to envision a way forward for zoos. Cheap reads as cheap.....
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I believe your initial confession of ignorance. I am sceptical about your other comments. Cheap shots read as cheap shots . . .

Alan
 
I think most people would agree Twycross desperately needs to upgrade many of its exhibits and many plans could be proposed for doing this but I suspect that none of these are going to be possible in the short term due to financial constraints. I think that the zoo should be looking to low tech (and low tech does not necessarily mean low quality) solutions to enclosures that can be carried out by keepers/volunteers. I think volunteers may be key to the zoos immediate problems especially as there is still an immense amount of local pride in the zoo. I even think that many of those who were 'resigned' under the recent regime would be prepared to volunteer their expertise to help.
 
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