What Would You Give To Have This Be You?

[nanoboy]

I'm a bit surprised by this reaction from you nanoboy, especially with your choice of wording such as "them marauding through my camp". There was no marauding going on, it was all very civilized indeed. The Bwindi gorillas are habituated troops and are quite used to tourists. The only difference is that on this occasion the troop came to the people instead of the people going to the troop. The only threat to tourists on gorilla watching tours has historically only been from actual guerillas.

(p.s. I have seen Congo, so that's at least two of us)

The movie was, as David Brown put it, definitely one of the worst movies ever made. You should definitely read the book - it scarred me for life when it comes to gorillas, sort of like Stephen King's 'IT' and clowns!!

Ok, I agree that marauding was not the right word as it did indeed look civilised, and I do agree that they are habituated to humans. But man oh man, just imagine if they were in a bad mood, or if a tourist pissed them off. We'll read about a tourist being mauled in the Thai tiger temple in 2012, I am sure....

A 200kg gorilla sitting next to me would freak me out. That classic David Attenborough clip with them is amazing though.

 

[Pertinax]

These are mountain gorillas in Bwindi.

The 'Mountain' Gorillas in Bwindi, as seen here, are not quite the same in appearance as the Virunga ones. The jury still seems to be out as to their exact taxonomic classification, though they are normally included in the Mountain Gorilla population- as approximately one half of it.

 

[Pertinax]

Ok, I agree that marauding was not the right word as it did indeed look civilised, and I do agree that they are habituated to humans. But man oh man, just imagine if they were in a bad mood, or if a tourist pissed them off.

There is quite a big difference between a wild troop of Gorillas, and Zoo Gorillas. Wild Gorillas, even habituated groups, have only limited contact with people, and as a result display an innate caution, whereas most Zoo Gorillas have lost that respect due to a life of close contact, so they are potentially more dangerous to people.

If that silverback had been annoyed, the most he is likely to have done under those conditions is run sideways past the man and push or hit out at him in passing, but of course the Gorillas were very relaxed so there wasn't much likelehood of that. Under most conditions, unhabituated wild Gorillas will flee from people and aggression is rare, though its not unheard of in certain situations e.g. hunting.

 

[nanoboy]

There is quite a big difference between a wild troop of Gorillas, and Zoo Gorillas. Wild Gorillas, even habituated groups, have only limited contact with people, and as a result display an innate caution, whereas most Zoo Gorillas have lost that respect due to a life of close contact, so they are potentially more dangerous to people.

If that silverback had been annoyed, the most he is likely to have done under those conditions is run sideways past the man and push or hit out at him in passing, but of course the Gorillas were very relaxed so there wasn't much likelehood of that. Under most conditions, unhabituated wild Gorillas will flee from people and aggression is rare, though its not unheard of in certain situations e.g. hunting.

Thanks for clearing that up. The difference in behaviour between the wild and zoo gorillas (re: aggression) seems counter intuitive though. I wonder though, if these gorillas are so accustomed to being around humans, are they closer to wild gorillas or zoo gorillas?

Ann Littlewood, good point about them being sitting ducks for poachers. Another civil war in that part of the world, and that might be the last straw for gorillas. Maybe I should risk it and try to get close to them before they are all gone.

 

[Pertinax]

I wonder though, if these gorillas are so accustomed to being around humans, are they closer to wild gorillas or zoo gorillas?

I would definately say closer to wild ones as they are 'wild' in every respect, except that they have some/occassional contact with humans.

I know with Chimpanzees, the BIG difference between zoo and wild chimps is that wild chimps don't know they are so much stronger than people, whereas Zoo chimps do. That is one reason why you can approach wild chimpanzees in relative safety whereas adults in zoos are very dangerous, plus the wild chimps, even habituated ones, remain cautious of people also. I suspect its the same with these Gorillas too.

 

[tapirus]

come on, im sure Hokitika is a lot better than Uganda

 

[Terp]

The 'Mountain' Gorillas in Bwindi, as seen here, are not quite the same in appearance as the Virunga ones. The jury still seems to be out as to their exact taxonomic classification, though they are normally included in the Mountain Gorilla population- as approximately one half of it.

Hi Pertinax - to be honest, I wasn't aware this was under debate but it clearly appears to be. I've located a couple published papers online, one on mitochondrial DNA analysis and another on skeletal structures which both appear to indicate that results suggest the Bwindi gorilla is not distinct enough to be regarded as a separate sub-species. Though, I get a sense that the parameters in general of what makes a subspecies are sort of gray. It seems clear they the populations have been separated for quite some time, and have different diets, nesting behaviors, etc. Any idea of who might be currently working to describe otherwise?

Really interesting reading, appreciate your pointing this out. Ironically, this could have some (very minimal) implications from a tourism perspective - which in turns has implications on their conservation. I think most tourists are wanting to see the famed 'mountain gorillas' - and could lead a small subset of travelers to opt for Mgahinga or Vulcan over Bwindi.

 

[Pertinax]

I've located a couple published papers online, one on mitochondrial DNA analysis and another on skeletal structures which both appear to indicate that results suggest the Bwindi gorilla is not distinct enough to be regarded as a separate sub-species.


I think most tourists are wanting to see the famed 'mountain gorillas' - and could lead a small subset of travelers to opt for Mgahinga or Vulcan over Bwindi.

1. Yes, this debate seems to have been going on a long time with no clear conclusion. Until quite recently the Bwindi gorillas were little known compared to their famous relatives, the Virunga gorillas, with very few photos recording their appearance. Superficially, the Bwindi population is said to share characteristics intermediate between both the others. From various photos and film like this video it looks to me as if they aren't as shaggy-coated as the Virunga gorillas(presumably they live at lower elevation?) and facially rather resemble Eastern Lowlands which have a longer smoother face. But presumably from the DNA tests they still remain as part of the Mountain Gorilla population though.

2. Agreed, the 'true' Volcano Gorillas are the ones most people would opt to see, given the choice. Personally I'd be equally happy with these though.

 

[Chlidonias]

From various photos and film like this video it looks to me as if they aren't as shaggy-coated as the Virunga gorillas(presumably they live at lower elevation?).....

the Bwindi gorillas are indeed at a much lower altitude. I did a search to find the actual elevations of their distribution and found this site Mountain Gorilla which says:

Conservation status, by range state:
Democratic Republic of the Congo (Critically Endangered): The Mountain Gorilla occurs in the Mikeno sector of Virunga National Park. The Virunga National Park is 7,900 km2 in size and is contiguous with the Ruwenzori Mountains and Mgahinga Gorilla National Parks, Uganda and Volcanoes National Park, Rwanda.
Rwanda (Critically Endangered): The Mountain Gorilla occurs in the Volcanoes National Park, which is 160 km2 in size and is contiguous to Virunga National Park in DRC and Mgahinga Gorilla National Park in Uganda. It ranges in altitude from 2,400m to 4,507m (UNEP-WCMC, 2003c).
Uganda (Critically Endangered): The Mountain Gorilla occurs in the Mgahinga Gorilla National Park and in Bwindi- Impenetrable National Park. The Mgahinga Gorilla National Park is 33.7 km2 in size and is found in the extreme south-west of Uganda on the borders with DRC and Rwanda. It ranges in altitude from 2,700m to 4,127m.The Bwindi-Impenetrable National Park is 331 km2 and ranges in altitude from 1,190m to 2,607m.

 

[Pertinax]

the Bwindi gorillas are indeed at a much lower altitude. I did a search to find the actual elevations of their distribution and found this site

Thanks. So the Bwindi population's highest elevation is actually a little lower than the lowest of the Virunga's population-if you get my drift. Probably accounts for some of these differences in the two populations too.

 

[Messy]

This clip shows another habituated group who have a habit of visiting

 

[Pertinax]

Looks like two silverbacks and one female, unless there are more of the group out of view. They seem attracted to minerals in the brickwork...

 

[Hix]

While I love gorillas, I'm not too sure I'd want them eating my house. The insurance company wouldn't believe me!



Hix

 

[Terp]

This video is crazy! They may be a bit too habituated when they start eating the homes. I'm guessing this a lodge inside the DRC.

Great find, thanks for posting.

 

[Chlidonias]

This video is crazy! They may be a bit too habituated when they start eating the homes. I'm guessing this a lodge inside the DRC.

yes this troop lives in the eastern DRC. Info on the troop is here: Rugendofamily

A great video

 

[Pertinax]

These are the classic 'Beringei' gorillas. According to the info there are(or were) now only five group members, of which only one is a female. Its the remnants of the same group were 4 members were massacred in 2009.