When it didn't work

[Jordan-Jaguar97]

I agree,there such a beautiful species and I would like to see more of them in UK collections but I cannot see that happening anytime soon the only possible thing would be is acquire a new female from Sri Lanka and keep the two females(Ursula and Lanka)together so Colombo could become a breeding male.

 

[Brum]

I cannot see that happening anytime soon the only possible thing would be is acquire a new female from Sri Lanka and keep the two females(Ursula and Lanka)together so Colombo could become a breeding male.

But in all honesty what are the chances of getting another bear from Sri Lanka? What's the population like in the USA? Surely they could pump some fresh blood into our Bears?
I think that 1 of the major zoos should look at a serious bear collection. As has been remarked on previous threads our collection of bears in the UK is pitiful compared to other countries and now we know how to minimise stereotypical behaviour the public will no longer be so distraught at the sight of these magnificent animals in captivity!

 

[Jordan-Jaguar97]

According to ISIS(not always correct!)there is 0.1 listed as Melursus ursinus which is at Leipzig,and Moscow are listed as have 1.1 Melursus ursinus inornatus

Melursus ursinus ursinus then list Leipzig as holding 2.2 and then Singapore are 'supposed' to hold 0.4-Bergen(Holland)are listed as holding 3.0 and Nikolaev(Ukraine)are listed as holding 1.0.

Apparntley there 19 individuals in the US(9.10 are listed as Melursus ursinus).

There is also three hybrids.

US have 11 females under Melursus ursinus inornatus and seven males.

There is plenty in India alot are in rescue facilities though.

Check it out yourself!ISIS :: Find Animals

 

[johnstoni.]

But in all honesty what are the chances of getting another bear from Sri Lanka? What's the population like in the USA? Surely they could pump some fresh blood into our Bears?
I think that 1 of the major zoos should look at a serious bear collection. As has been remarked on previous threads our collection of bears in the UK is pitiful compared to other countries and now we know how to minimise stereotypical behaviour the public will no longer be so distraught at the sight of these magnificent animals in captivity!

I would be very interested to know the plan for these bears. The Sri Lankan subspecies is critically endangered, arguably a far higher conservation priority than any other species/subspecies of ursid.

Either:

(a) Lanka is aggressive and it is not practical acquire unrelated bears to make breeding attempts with her two adult offspring while she is still alive.

(b) or they aren't in fact pure Sri Lankan sloth bears and therefore are not part of a breeding programme any longer. I'm sure someone on here mentioned at least one of the siblings has been neutered, this would explain it if true.

If neither of the above are correct, it seems crazy to me to just hold on to them on welfare grounds, when virtually all the other Sri Lankan sloth bears in captivity are in the US.

Sloth bears are in Bristol's NWCP plans, I doubt they'll disappear from the UK, but I would expect any more to be the Indian subspecies.

 

[johnstoni.]

back to the main topic of this thread:

BABIRUSA
-Most pairs are ageing and very inbred, likely to go down to maybe just at South Lakes and Chester in the next few years. Gaur have almost the exact same problem in Europe, surely both of these are candidates for AI?

Also striped opossum, springhass, neither bred well enough to sustain a zoo population. But small mammals often 'disappear' into private hands, where they tend to breed very well.

Mugger crocodiles - never bred at Thrigby, despite the award winning house, now down to just two?

Honey badgers - depends on what Howletts will do.

I would watch Lowland anoa - only one pair seems to be breeding now.

When did Belfast hold Springbok?

What is the situation with the Roloways at Twycross, when did they arrive, are they old animals?

Echidna and common wombat were not failures specific to London, a number of marsupials were attempted at Marwell, Twycross, Bristol and Blackpool in the 1970s, all that remain today from that time are ground cuscus.

Bactrian Wapiti are at the Scottish Deer Centre - see their new website, along with White-lipped deer. I wonder if the fall in numbers is partly due to HWP/Edinburgh sending some to the Deer Centre?

Andean Condors - when was the last chick hatched? Wasn't it a couple of years ago in private hands? It is hard to judge such a long-lived species as failing as they can breed after years of nothing.

Potto - I would argue there are still breeding groups at both London and Marwell, only a few years ago this species was not on display in the UK.

Sumatran rhino - again they were never going to have a chance with those animals, making it all the more tragic as I believe PL really could have been the place to kickstart some meaningful ex situ breeding.

 

[johnstoni.]

Recently we have seen success in the UK with such species as giant anteater, nyala, bongo, Indian rhino and Somali wild ass to name just a few..

Nyala - I would argue actually that they have been successful for several decades
Bongo - Again, Howletts has always had a very successful herd, later Marwell and Woburn, now many collections.

 

[Jordan-Jaguar97]

Nyala - I would argue actually that they have been successful for several decades
Bongo - Again, Howletts has always had a very successful herd, later Marwell and Woburn, now many collections.

Some places have sent their breeding males to Knowsley as they have been to successful cough cough*Blackpool,Chester*cough cough.

 

[kiang]

Nyala - I would argue actually that they have been successful for several decades
Bongo - Again, Howletts has always had a very successful herd, later Marwell and Woburn, now many collections.

Nyala for a long time were held by Marwell, then Whipsnade, being the only 2 holders for many years, then in the past few years we have had Edinburgh, Longleat, Kessingland and Newquay.
I guess the same story with roan too.

Bongo started with the herd at Woburn, then London and Howletts, were the only holders for many years, then the holders just ballooned.

 

[Gary]

Some of these species have been allowed deliberately to die out rather than maintained by breeding/importation.

New 'flavour of the month' species have taken over-Komodo Dragons, Giant Anteaters and the ubiquitous Meerkats and Humboldts Penguins seem to be held in greater numbers in the last few years, none of which I recall as a younger zoo-goer.

It seems a lot of hoofstock, pheasants and carnivores have been allowed to dwindle in recent times.

 

[johnstoni.]

Nyala were also at London during the 1990s until just before 'Into Africa' was opened. I believe Marwell and ZSL had some kind of arrangement for sharing hoofstock which predated ESBs, EEPs, etc.

 

[Pertinax]

Bactrian Wapiti are at the Scottish Deer Centre - see their new website, along with White-lipped deer. I wonder if the fall in numbers is partly due to HWP/Edinburgh sending some to the Deer Centre?

I'd be interested to know how they breakdown as far as numbers are concerned of these two species. Who has what?

Presumably the SDC obtained both species from Edinburgh/HWP. So were the Bactrian Wapiti transferred not 'lost' from HWP, or is it a bit of both?

 

[Nanook]

Chamois. Blackpool.

Bactrian Wapiti- failing at HWP.

Owl-faced Monkey- down to two collections (Twycross,Edinburgh) from five and seemingly failing now.

Allen's Swamp Monkey- only at Paignton & Twycross and no current breeding.

I would disagree about Blackpool`s Chamois , they actually reproduced very well , the problem was, like so many other situations in zoos, is that there were no other collections willing to join them in creating a decent gene pool.

 

[Nanook]

Nyala - I would argue actually that they have been successful for several decades
Bongo - Again, Howletts has always had a very successful herd, later Marwell and Woburn, now many collections.

Nyala are still doing very well in the UK , the founding stock at Marwell continue to breed and send surplus to other collections these days. Two calves were recently born at Newquay Zoo aswell.

Impala are very difficult to manage under captive conditions due to them being extremely highly strung, nervous animals.

Anoa are still being bred , though in small numbers admittedly.

I would suggest that Koalas have done very badly in the UK to date, in fact they actually can make a very poor exhibit for the public.

 

[hantslad]

Douc langur - several collections tried , Howletts had some success but short-term unfortunately .

Red howler - Twycross .

Chousinga - Howletts .

I would not say the Chousinga at Howlett,s where a failure, as they did breed with sucess for a fair amount of time, just inbreeding did happen as there where no orther animals around to bring new blood lines into the collection.

 

[Pertinax]

I suppose you could include the original trio of Black Wildebeest at Marwell. They didn't breed, I'm not sure if they ever managed to mix them with other species, and they didn't replace them for about thirty five years!

The original stock of Nyala died out too. The current success story was from a 2nd importation.

 

[hantslad]

I suppose you could include the original trio of Black Wildebeest at Marwell. They didn't breed, I'm not sure if they ever managed to mix them with other species, and they didn't replace them for about thirty five years!

The original stock of Nyala died out too. The current success story was from a 2nd importation.

Maybe wrong and stand to be corrected ! the white tailed gnu where there to late 70,s, and the Nyala that r there now are from the group that where there from at least 1980, not sure when the original stock died out and where replaced by theses.

 

[Nanook]

Maybe wrong and stand to be corrected ! the white tailed gnu where there to late 70,s, and the Nyala that r there now are from the group that where there from at least 1980, not sure when the original stock died out and where replaced by theses.

You are right the current Nyala herd are descendants which do in fact go back many years. There have been several breeding males brought in to sire calves over the years so the genetic viability of the group is very good.

The recent new pair of White-tailed / Black Wildebeest have reproduced, as did Newquay`s pair, though sadly the first one did not survive.

 

[Nanook]

I would not say the Chousinga at Howlett,s where a failure, as they did breed with sucess for a fair amount of time, just inbreeding did happen as there where no orther animals around to bring new blood lines into the collection.

I totally agree. They did have a thriving herd, in fact so many that they were held in various enclosures, there was a constant surplus available.
But like many other species, you cannot continue indefinately unless you have new stock coming in to diversify genes and very importantly other collections willing to take on stock to form future groups.

 

[Pertinax]

You are right the current Nyala herd are descendants which do in fact go back many years.

I still believe, though not 100% sure there was a gap some time in the 70's when Marwell didn't have Nyala after the first group died out. But maybe it was only the original two males that died (they definately did), so there was a hiatus in breeding for a while?

 

[Pertinax]

the white tailed gnu where there to late 70,s,

I still kind of regard them as a failure though, because they didn't breed/perpetuate them or increase the herd size. I hope they do better with the current ones which have at least bred successfully already.