Which rhino species should be prioritized in conservation ? (poll)

Which rhino species / subspecies should be prioritized in conservation ?

  • White rhino (Northern subsp)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Javan rhino

    Votes: 11 20.0%

  • Black rhino

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • Sumatran rhino

    Votes: 43 78.2%
  • Total voters
    55
  • Poll closed .
Zorro said:
Yes I do agree, IF the poaching threat was removed like it appears to have been done in the Javan rhinos last home. But the numbers are so low now it may not be worth the risk of losing any in the transfer, also as mentioned if roads are pushed through in the Sumatran rhinos last strong hold they are gone foe sure.
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Yes, its a tricky one for sure.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment the poaching of rhino really hit worldwide news and led to a lot of criticism and pressure on the Vietnamese protected area system so this could in the future lead to improvements if rhino were introduced.

However, look at what is going on in Indonesia, there is similarly a lot of criticism and pressure on the Indonesian government to conserve both the Javan and Sumatran rhinos and is it really working ? At least for one species apparently yes but for the Sumatran it really doesnt appear to be working.

Could it ever really be expected to work in Vietnam where the Javan was wiped out ?

For the forseeable future I would say probably not, however, it is conceivable that in the distant future this may be an option providing that the underlying threats are efficiently tackled / mitigated (although this would be an uphill battle).
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Yes, its a tricky one for sure.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment the poaching of rhino really hit worldwide news and led to a lot of criticism and pressure on the Vietnamese protected area system so this could in the future lead to improvements if rhino were introduced.

However, look at what is going on in Indonesia, there is similarly a lot of criticism and pressure on the Indonesian government to conserve both the Javan and Sumatran rhinos and is it really working ? At least for one species apparently yes but for the Sumatran it really doesnt appear to be working.

Could it ever really be expected to work in Vietnam where the Javan was wiped out ?

For the forseeable future I would say probably not, however, it is conceivable that in the distant future this may be an option providing that the underlying threats are efficiently tackled / mitigated (although this would be an uphill battle).
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One of the main problems is where all the Javans are held in one place and easier to watch all the eggs in one basket the Sumatran is more scattered over a much larger area!
 
Zorro said:
One of the main problems is where all the Javans are held in one place and easier to watch all the eggs in one basket the Sumatran is more scattered over a much larger area!
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Yes, agree, this is why I believe that some Javan rhinos should be translocated to other protected areas in Indonesia.

At the moment the species is sitting pretty Ujung Kulon but any stochastic event could be a threat and it would be very hard to respond to this in a timely manner in an emergency.

I don't think they can afford to rest on their laurels about that species, best to translocate individuals ASAP but will it be done in the near future ?

Sadly I think not...
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Yes, agree, this is why I believe that some Javan rhinos should be translocated to other protected areas in Indonesia.

At the moment the species is sitting pretty Ujung Kulon but any stochastic event could be a threat and it would be very hard to respond to this in a timely manner in an emergency.

I don't think they can afford to rest on their laurels about that species, best to translocate individuals ASAP but will it be done in the near future ?

Sadly I think not...
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There has been "talk" for quite some time about relocating some Javan rhino to another location I believe some other areas have been scouted out but I fear as with the Asiatic lion the holders on the one and only population are reluctant to lose this status!
 
Zorro said:
There has been "talk" for quite some time about relocating some Javan rhino to another location I believe some other areas have been scouted out but I fear as with the Asiatic lion the holders on the one and only population are reluctant to lose this status!
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Yes, that is a species that also comes to mind for me when thinking about the Javan rhino, the Asiatic lion. Similar parallels in terms of their respective situations.

It is that proprietal sense of privilege and status that many political and administrative figures are unwilling to let go that could doom both of these species in the long-run.

So much of conservation is dealing with these human made problems and the fall out / blowback of these. This is why the social sciences are a must.
 
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Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Yes, that is a species that also comes to mind for me when thinking about the Javan rhino, the Asiatic lion. Similar parallels in terms of their respective situations.

It is that proprietal sense of privilege and status that many political and administrative figures are unwilling to let go that could doom both of these species in the long-run.

So much of conservation is dealing with these human made problems the fall out of these, this is why the social sciences are a must.
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I believe some of these decisions are made more on a local level than anything else perhaps someone on a higher national level could cut through this problem for the sake of the species!
 
Zorro said:
I believe some of these decisions are made more on a local level than anything else perhaps someone on a higher national level could cut through this problem for the sake of the species!
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It could well be the solution to this but sometimes things are very very complicated politically.

It is often the case within countries that in certain regions a federal / state government can wield considerably more power in political terms than a national government.

Don't know much about India but considering that it is such a large country and in fact a subcontinent I would image that this would be the case in regions like Gujarat.

I would say the same about Indonesia, don't know the region well, never been there, but the same is probably true in many regions of the country like Java.
 
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I actually voted for the Javan rhino. It's a cruel way of thinking that made me choose it and one that should only be used when all other options are considered impossible. The reasoning is that the black is quite widespread and is already part of several small and large conservation programs. It can probably survive with the current conservation efforts, or at least in some regions it will. This likely isn't the case for the Javan and Sumatran, they are both in serious need for drastic conservation efforts and have problems with low populations and genetic diversity. Of those two, it seems to me that the Javan has the biggest chance of recovering so if you'd go all out I believe it should be the species to target. A huge translocation program with several sites over it's former range should be set up for the following decades to come. Ideally I'd say choose two locations right now, move 2 groups of roughly five rhinos to each and if they do well move five more to each a few years later.
 
Jarne said:
I actually voted for the Javan rhino. It's a cruel way of thinking that made me choose it and one that should only be used when all other options are considered impossible. The reasoning is that the black is quite widespread and is already part of several small and large conservation programs. It can probably survive with the current conservation efforts, or at least in some regions it will. This likely isn't the case for the Javan and Sumatran, they are both in serious need for drastic conservation efforts and have problems with low populations and genetic diversity. Of those two, it seems to me that the Javan has the biggest chance of recovering so if you'd go all out I believe it should be the species to target. A huge translocation program with several sites over it's former range should be set up for the following decades to come. Ideally I'd say choose two locations right now, move 2 groups of roughly five rhinos to each and if they do well move five more to each a few years later.
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Thank you for your vote and comment @Jarne !

No, I don't think your way of voting was actually cruel at all.

The fact is we do need to make hard decisions in conservation and think in analytical and strategical terms with cold and clinical logic about our efforts and where they are best focused.

I agree with you that the Javan rhino does appear to have the best chance of recovery and I can understand the rationale behind your vote for this species but I personally had to vote for the Sumatran rhino in this poll because of how strongly I feel about its plight.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Thank you for your vote and comment @Jarne !

No, I don't think your way of voting was actually cruel at all.

The fact is we do need to make hard decisions in conservation and think in analytical and strategical terms with cold and clinical logic about our efforts and where they are best focused.

I agree with you that the Javan rhino does appear to have the best chance of recovery and I can understand the rationale behind your vote for this species but I personally had to vote for the Sumatran rhino in this poll because of how strongly I feel about its plight.
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Because it's the most logical way of thinking doesn't mean it's not cruel. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and "the greater good" are cruel ways of thinking, but in the hard world of conservation we indeed don't always have a choice. If we try to conserve everything we might lose it all, but if we conserve too little we might lose more then necessary. The master I'm currently following is all about it as it's literally called "Biodiversity: conservation and restoration".
 
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Jarne said:
Because it's the most logical way of thinking doesn't mean it's not cruel. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and "the greater good" are cruel way of thinking, but in the hard world of conservation we indeed don't always have a choice. If we try to conserve everything we might lose it all, but if we conserve too little we might lose more then necessary. The master I'm currently following is all about it as it's literally called "Biodiversity: conservation and restoration".
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I agree with the points you've made here.

Sorry, I didn't really understand the last part though, are you taking a masters degree ?
 
Jarne said:
That is indeed the main subject, which is quite nicely presented by the name "Biodiversity: conservation and restoration" (Master Biology: Biodiversity, Conservation and Restoration - Profile - University of Antwerp).
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It sounds brilliant !

I've had a look on the site provided on the link you posted and the course content looks pretty good, lots of very pertinent modules including ones that are specifically relevant to ex-situ work in zoos.

So what do you plan to do the research component of your degree / dissertation on ?

Do you have any ideas yet ?
 
Not really yet. Next year I'm going to look for a master thesis (due to circumstances previous year I'm forced to do the master in 3 years and take some remaining bachelor courses up this year), and wether I'll go for a PhD or not I'm not yet certain. There are many interesting research projects to choose from so I'm certain I will find something to my liking for the master thesis at least.
 
Jarne said:
Not really yet. Next year I'm going to look for a master thesis (due to circumstances previous year I'm forced to do the master in 3 years and take some remaining bachelor courses up this year), and wether I'll go for a PhD or not I'm not yet certain. There are many interesting research projects to choose from so I'm certain I will find something to my liking for the master thesis at least.
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Good luck with that and I'm sure you will find something for your master thesis at the right moment.

Is there a particular field of biodiversity conservation you are more interested in ?

From your comment it sounds like species conservation is of interest to you so is there a particular taxonomic group that you are interested in working with ?
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Good luck with that and I'm sure you will find something for your master thesis at the right moment.

Is there a particular field of biodiversity conservation you are more interested in ?

From your comment it sounds like species conservation is of interest to you so is there a particular taxonomic group that you are interested in working with ?
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I've many points of interest. Whilst plain species-conservation is not uninteresting, it's the touching point between species-conservation and ecosystem-conservation that interests me the most. Things like conserving ecosystem engineers, keystone species, ambassador species, .... The interaction between the public and conservation is also very interesting, with topics like ecosystem services and sustainable use.

If i'd have to take a group that could be considered my favorite, I might say old-world vultures. Their role in the ecosystem is extremely important, almost all species are in danger, they are part of large-scale ex-situ programs with successful reintroductions and I actually find them beautiful creatures both in appearance and behavior. If I'd be able to become part of one of the vulture EEP's I'm quite sure I'd take that chance.
 
Jarne said:
I've many points of interest. Whilst plain species-conservation is not uninteresting, it's the touching point between species-conservation and ecosystem-conservation that interests me the most. Things like conserving ecosystem engineers, keystone species, ambassador species, .... The interaction between the public and conservation is also very interesting, with topics like ecosystem services and sustainable use.

If i'd have to take a group that could be considered my favorite, I might say old-world vultures. Their role in the ecosystem is extremely important, almost all species are in danger, they are part of large-scale ex-situ programs with successful reintroductions and I actually find them beautiful creatures both in appearance and behavior. If I'd be able to become part of one of the vulture EEP's I'm quite sure I'd take that chance.
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That is really interesting to hear that you have an interest in old world vultures.

I think it is an absolutely amazing direction to have as so many old world vulture species are really in danger and need all of the support that they can get. It is actually encouraging to hear that a young conservation biologist at the start of his career has this interest in such a neglected group of birds.

My advice regarding old world vultures and given your location is to look towards Spain to gain experience with these birds as there are a number of threatened species in this country and it is so close to Belgium.

There are several good Spanish vulture conservation programes which will take volunteers. There you can learn the ropes with different species like the lammergeier, black vulture, Eurasian griffon vulture, Rüppell's griffon vulture.
 
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So...

The Sumatran rhino by 43 votes is the winner of this poll with most zoochatters feeling strongly that its conservation should be prioritized over other rhino species.

It was quite an interesting discusion with some zoochatters feeling that the prioritization of the Javan rhino is a far more pragmatic and realistic option given it being in better straits than the poor old Sumatran. This is a stance that I actually can't disagree with as it is based in some pretty sound strategic reasoning / logic.

The losers of this poll were the African rhino species / subspecies with only a single vote for the black rhino.

All I can say is I wish this poll actually reflected the reality of rhino conservation and that these two Asiatic rhino species were the priority over the Africans (which tend towards getting much more media attention and resources).

Thank you everyone for voting in the poll and here is a little video of the winner, the Sumatran rhino, a mother and calf in a tender moment of play.

 
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