ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Whipsnade Zoo 2014 #1

[gentle lemur]

Understood, but there is so much more that could be done onsite. Without breaking sweat, I could (and I feel certain that others can!) walk round Whipsnade and identify spaces where Gelada, a gibbon species, at least one more large (and three or four smaller) cat species, Brown or Striped Hyena, African Hunting Dog, Polar and Spectacled Bear, Brazilian Tapir, Black Rhino, and a good half dozen extra herd species (Hartmann's Mountain Zebra, Persian Fallow Deer, Addax, Musk-ox and Mishmi Takin, anybody? ) could be held, without turning the site into a concrete jungle.

A good few extra climate tolerant bird species (say Red-breasted Goose, Harlequin, Long-tailed Duck,any number of pheasants, Oriental White Stork, Steller's Sea Eagle and Black-necked Crane) also spring to mind as being animals that any German zoo aficionado would not be unduly surprised to see there.

I agree with many of these suggestions. I always think it a great pity that Whipsnade has turned its back on one of its greatest glories: apart from the penguins, there is now nothing to see with view over the escarpment as its background. I can easily imagine a spectacular gelada exhibit and perhaps one for Japanese macaques too. The old lion and tiger exhibits would need some expenditure to provide modern barriers in place of the old bars, but would do nicely for hardy species such as bobcat, Pallas' cat, raccoon-like dogs or coyotes. Could the old pit used for the Kodiak bears be extended for a hardy goat or sheep species? Musk ox and or takin would be wonderful, but would require very robust and extensive accommodation which would be more expensive.
I'm less sure of the tropical species such as hyaenas and hunting dogs, unless they can be given more sheltered positions, but I would love to see nice herd of deer in one of the big paddocks again - white-tailed deer or mule deer would be nice to see.
I always feel that Whipsnade is not really the place for most birds. The trend is going against pinioned waterfowl and cranes, which were formerly the nucleus of the collection and I'm not sure that modern aviaries with lightweight mesh would withstand Whipsnade's winters. But a robust walk-through with hardy birds could work well in the Bird Wood.
Regrettably I think the sea duck idea would not work: they need expert care and very clean water.

Alan

 

[pipaluk]

Understood, but there is so much more that could be done onsite. Without breaking sweat, I could (and I feel certain that others can!) walk round Whipsnade and identify spaces where Gelada, a gibbon species, at least one more large (and three or four smaller) cat species, Brown or Striped Hyena, African Hunting Dog, Polar and Spectacled Bear, Brazilian Tapir, Black Rhino, and a good half dozen extra herd species (Hartmann's Mountain Zebra, Persian Fallow Deer, Addax, Musk-ox and Mishmi Takin, anybody? ) could be held, without turning the site into a concrete jungle.

A good few extra climate tolerant bird species (say Red-breasted Goose, Harlequin, Long-tailed Duck,any number of pheasants, Oriental White Stork, Steller's Sea Eagle and Black-necked Crane) also spring to mind as being animals that any German zoo aficionado would not be unduly surprised to see there.

There is so much space that has never been used or is under utilised, or that has been abandoned. I suspect that a lot of younger posters don't realise how much was abandoned in the tough days of the 1980s. For example, Ouseley Way thirty years ago was home to Serval, Jaguar and Spectacled Bear, as well as Cheetah and Eurasian Lynx. The latter are to be seen at Whipsnade today, but the earlier species have gone. As one who remembers the old accommodation, to say nothing of the old pits that held Kodiak and Polar Bears, I don't mourn the housing but I regret the loss of diversity.

ajmc, your love of Whipsnade is obvious. I love Whipsnade too, which is why I'd like to see it getting closer to fulfilling its potential.

I have to agree entirely, Whipsnade has massive potential to become an even better zoo than it currently is. Whilst the London site has considerable limitations to improving, all those species could be added at Whipsnade, without it losing its character.

 

[Panthera1981]

With regards the Escarpment, much of it is now an SSI so I think their options are limited. An award-winning SSI it should be noted!

The Woodland Walk at the front of the zoo suffered a few years back from successive harsh winters.It hasn't reopened since nor looks likely to in the near future, if ever again!

I think there was talk of replacing the wolves and chimps with African hunting dog and Gelada respectively, once both groups die out. There certainly aren't many wolves left! Personally, I'd prefer Dhole or Maned wolf.

 

[Pertinax]

The old lion and tiger exhibits would need some expenditure to provide modern barriers in place of the old bars, but would do nicely for hardy species such as bobcat, Pallas' cat, raccoon-like dogs or coyotes. Could the old pit used for the Kodiak bears be extended for a hardy goat or sheep species?

All(?) the Cat and Bear pits were filled in a long time ago now.

 

[IanRRobinson]

All(?) the Cat and Bear pits were filled in a long time ago now.

I want this to be positive discussion , but the fate of these four pits does show up a disturbing lack of imagination within ZSL.

TBF, it would have been a struggle to have brought the deep, grim Kodiak Bear Pit into an acceptable usage for the 21st century, but the Polar Bear enclosure might have been roofed over and used for a large raptor species. To have had White-tailed Eagles gazing towards the Vale of Aylesbury that they probably soared over in the Bronze Age would have been very special.

As for the Lion and Tiger enclosures; I really don't know what would have been wrong with them given new fencing and modern denning facilities. The Eurasian Lynx might have had more space if either were still extant, and the Wolves looked marvellous in the old Lion pit when they were moved there temporarily in the winter of 1991 whilst Tiger Falls was being built.

It wasn't just animal accommodation that was lost; the entrances to old flint diggings, surely important industrial history, were covered up too. It is good that bat hibernacula were installed when the pits were filled in, but surely this could have been done anyway? All in all, it's hard to see the justification for what was done.

 

[gentle lemur]

With regards the Escarpment, much of it is now an SSI so I think their options are limited. An award-winning SSI it should be noted!

I didn't know about this; but on checking the Natural England website, the protected area is on the lower half of the slope down to the zoo fence. Its boundary runs more or less parallel to the Escarpment Avenue, except around the white lion, but it is about 130 metres from the road. In other words the area that I was suggesting could be used in some way - although obviously with all due regard to the environmental impact.

Alan

 

[Panthera1981]

The ring-tailed lemurs on the old Squirrel monkey island have had babies! I think two little heads have been noticed.

The long term future for this group will see them eventually move into the lemur walk through at the front of the zoo. Personally I'd like to see the island utilised for some form of primate like howler or spider monkey, but could a pair of gibbons work here? What is the species history of the island?

 

[Pertinax]

but could a pair of gibbons work here? What is the species history of the island?

I remember Gibbons on there in the past, before Squirrel Monkeys.

 

[BongoHardwood]

The nilgai are in the lechwe paddock next to the cheetahs now that the lechwe have been moved to the ostrich paddock. From what I saw of them, already much showier than the lechwe, though that back corner is always tempting to hide in!

 

[Tim May]

Personally I'd like to see the island utilised for some form of primate like howler or spider monkey, but could a pair of gibbons work here? What is the species history of the island?

I remember Gibbons on there in the past, before Squirrel Monkeys.

If you check maps of Whipsnade from the 1960s this enclosure was referred to as Gibbon Island!

I know that both lar gibbons and grey gibbons have been housed here. The grey gibbons were listed as moloch in the ZSL Annual report but, as has been discussed on another thread, they were actually muelleri. (The Whipsnade trio of grey gibbons were sent to London Zoo in 1972 when the Sobell Pavilions opened.)

 

[ajmcwhipsnade]

Understood, but there is so much more that could be done onsite. Without breaking sweat, I could (and I feel certain that others can!) walk round Whipsnade and identify spaces where Gelada, a gibbon species, at least one more large (and three or four smaller) cat species, Brown or Striped Hyena, African Hunting Dog, Polar and Spectacled Bear, Brazilian Tapir, Black Rhino, and a good half dozen extra herd species (Hartmann's Mountain Zebra, Persian Fallow Deer, Addax, Musk-ox and Mishmi Takin, anybody? ) could be held, without turning the site into a concrete jungle.

A good few extra climate tolerant bird species (say Red-breasted Goose, Harlequin, Long-tailed Duck,any number of pheasants, Oriental White Stork, Steller's Sea Eagle and Black-necked Crane) also spring to mind as being animals that any German zoo aficionado would not be unduly surprised to see there.

There is so much space that has never been used or is under utilised, or that has been abandoned. I suspect that a lot of younger posters don't realise how much was abandoned in the tough days of the 1980s. For example, Ouseley Way thirty years ago was home to Serval, Jaguar and Spectacled Bear, as well as Cheetah and Eurasian Lynx. The latter are to be seen at Whipsnade today, but the earlier species have gone. As one who remembers the old accommodation, to say nothing of the old pits that held Kodiak and Polar Bears, I don't mourn the housing but I regret the loss of diversity.

ajmc, your love of Whipsnade is obvious. I love Whipsnade too, which is why I'd like to see it getting closer to fulfilling its potential.

I do understand that people wish that it had more and yes perhaps the paddocks could be a tad fuller, which they are working on, but in regards to the downs I really don't think they can do anything on them. I would imagine that planning permission would be rejected.

I also trust that the ZSL has the right plans for the future, plus I really do think London has to be priority at the moment.

I have had a couple of ideas for Whipsnade, possibly using the old black rhino paddock (due to its barriers) for Buffalo and maybe the old elephant arena could be transformed into a Condor aviary but I do trust that the ZSL has plans for the future. In the mean time Whipsnade still has a lot to offer both animal wise and scenery wise as well.

 

[Panthera1981]

A increasingly worrying trend I am noticing is the growing number of visitors attempting to feed/throw things at the animals, often taking great pleasure and complete disregard for the signage telling them otherwise. Verbal abuse towards the keepers is often the outcome when they've been caught.

 

[Panthera1981]

The current number of ring-tailed lemur births now stands at 6! The Children's Farm's Gloucester Old Spot sow has had her piglets (4) and there has been a Bactrian camel birth.

Does anyone know the history of Whipsnade's yak and camel herds? Obviously they aren't wild stock!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

With regards the Escarpment, much of it is now an SSI so I think their options are limited. An award-winning SSI it should be noted!

The Woodland Walk at the front of the zoo suffered a few years back from successive harsh winters.It hasn't reopened since nor looks likely to in the near future, if ever again!

I think there was talk of replacing the wolves and chimps with African hunting dog and Gelada respectively, once both groups die out. There certainly aren't many wolves left! Personally, I'd prefer Dhole or Maned wolf.

I would think replacing wolves and chimps with Gelada and hunting dogs makes better use of that particular part of Whipsnade's zoo grounds.

Having said that, I would like to see European wolves as part of the European zoo geographic area though - see also European Carnivores campaign - and what it requires in terms of PA / conservation education.

A lemur walk through - hopefully not just ring-tailed lemurs - but also other species like e.g. red-bellied, Aloatran or the simus species of gentle lemurs and perhaps collared or black lemurs, would certainly upgrade the front part of the zoo and provide for a visitor anchor!

 

[Panthera1981]

I would think replacing wolves and chimps with Gelada and hunting dogs makes better use of that particular part of Whipsnade's zoo grounds.

Having said that, I would like to see European wolves as part of the European zoo geographic area though - see also European Carnivores campaign - and what it requires in terms of PA / conservation education.

A lemur walk through - hopefully not just ring-tailed lemurs - but also other species like e.g. red-bellied, Aloatran or the simus species of gentle lemurs and perhaps collared or black lemurs, would certainly upgrade the front part of the zoo and provide for a visitor anchor!

Prior to public access, the walk through was originally a mixed exhibit I believe, with black/white ruffed and ringtails. However, the black/whites were removed as they bullied the ringtails!

 

[Pertinax]

It would take a long time for the Chimps to 'die out' as some of those males aren't that old. But they could be hived off elsewhere perhaps.

Somewhere I saw they had made application for Geladas some years ago now, but whether that is still on-going I don't know. I wonder if the plan would then be to use the current Chimpanzee area for them?

 

[pipaluk]

Why is there a need to get rid of the chimps or wolves to bring in more species? Whipsnade has plenty of room to add dozens of new species without getting rid of anything!

 

[Panthera1981]

Why is there a need to get rid of the chimps or wolves to bring in more species? Whipsnade has plenty of room to add dozens of new species without getting rid of anything!

I agree wholeheartedly, but I think the writings been on the wall for these two groups for a long time: the wolf pack are all-male and very old and the chimps haven't bred in years-with no plans for them to either.

 

[Pertinax]

the wolf pack are all-male and very old and the chimps haven't bred in years-with no plans for them to either.

The Chimps here have always seemed an oddly-balanced little group to me- currently 4.2(?) and there is only one breeding age female, and as there is no recent breeding maybe that is deliberate too. This house and enclosure could house a much larger group if they wanted it- which would increase the activity levels and interest for visitors. Instead it just remains static/the same.

 

[BongoHardwood]

It's an intriguing scenario with the chimps. I wonder how small the group will get before any decisions to send the remaining group members elsewhere might be taken, if at all. The group is already small at 6 so with say just 4 individuals it would seem strange.